Ron Paul and Gay Adoption

[Red Dingo]

O.K. I think I have an idea what the answer to this is going to be and I'm not sure if I like it. But, to save everything RP's message stands for and puts and end to is much more important than this one issue. Though personally I am quite uncomfortable with it. Sorry if I come over offensive. I don't mean to be. It's just one of those things that my personal beliefs don't easily lend themselves to.
Any thoughts? I am aware of the reality that SO many heterosexual couples are bad parents. Well, this ones a doozy.

 

[Tdcci]

Though personally I am quite uncomfortable with it. Sorry if I come over offensive. I don't mean to be. It's just one of those things that my personal beliefs don't easily lend themselves to.

Does this just come from a general dislike of homosexuals, or do you think that homosexuals are less able to raise a child? (statistical data does not show this)

 

[Red Dingo]

No. I have gay friends but I don't agree with that lifestyle. It is a religious thing. I am very pro-traditional ideas of family. But please don't think I am thinking I'm so much more superior or anything like that to gay people.
It's more a case of me wanting a child to grow up with the traditional idea of family. So I concede it is a case of my views wanting to be put on others. But I am not suggesting a good gay couple would in no way be worse at caring for the child. Perhaps that is the answer. But it may be one of those things I have to swallow. I'm just trying to think out loud.

 

[Iconoclast777]

i have seen many people squirm at the mention of gay adoption, even those who advocate gay rights... i believe this comes from a fear that if gay people adopt, they mite turn their children gay ( also known as homophobia)... this fear, of course, comes from the misconception that being a homosexual is wrong... not to name any institutions, but these places essentially brainwash people into believeing homosexuality is a terrible thing, and that gay adoption will just lead to more homosexuals... i understand your fear, but try to rationalize your thoughts and come to the roots of your opinions... is gay adoption morally wrong? who does it harm? if an adopted child turns gay due to gay parents, what is wrong with that? (unless u believe being gay is wrong in the first place)...

 

[Mini-Me]

Ron Paul's political view on gay adoption is that it's a state issue. His personal view is probably against it, but he's smart enough to understand that his personal view should have no bearing on federal policy.

The typical debate is always a false dilemma between "ban it" and "subsidize it," but I believe it would be wise for governments to leave adoption matters up to private citizens. If you want to give your child up for adoption, you should be able to give it up to whoever you wish (whether it be an individual, a family, or an organization that will follow certain guidelines for finding an individual or family). Personally, if I were giving my own child up for adoption, I'd prefer that it went to a stable family with both a mother and a father. I wouldn't want it going to a single mother or father, because I believe children have the best shot at becoming emotionally well-adjusted when they have both - for the same reason, I wouldn't want it going to a gay or lesbian couple (not because they're gay, but because there would be an inherent imbalance in the absence of either a mother or a father).

If you leave adoption up to the "free market," or in other words, allow people to give their babies up to whoever they want, then everybody wins. That way, people with no aversion to giving their babies up to gay parents can do so (and gay people can become parents if they want to), but people who have problems with the idea aren't forced by the government to abandon their own preference when they give their babies up for adoption.

 

[Tdcci]

If you leave adoption up to the "free market," or in other words, allow people to give their babies up to whoever they want, then everybody wins. That way, people with no aversion to giving their babies up to gay parents can do so (and gay people can become parents if they want to), but people who have problems with the idea aren't forced by the government to abandon their own preference when they give their babies up for adoption.

The states that allow gay adoption are not forcing people to give up their preferences, they just don't have a ban in place, ensuring maximum freedom for both parties. The real dichotomy is "ban it" or "don't ban it"

 

[Mini-Me]

The states that allow gay adoption are not forcing people to give up their preferences, they just don't have a ban in place, ensuring maximum freedom for both parties. The real dichotomy is "ban it" or "don't ban it"

Then I stand corrected I assumed, and you know what that does...

 

[VoteForRonPaul]

It depends on what people think in general about: Why homosexuals are homosexuals? If the majority think it is because of a genetic reason, then the adoption idea would be more acceptable. But in case they think it is not genetic but more about how childern are raised, it will be more difficult to accept.

 

[Tdcci]

It depends on what people think in general about: Why homosexuals are homosexuals? If the majority think

The majority? Is this a Democracy or a Republic?

 

[Johncjackson]

It depends on what people think in general about: Why homosexuals are homosexuals? If the majority think it is because of a genetic reason, then the adoption idea would be more acceptable. But in case they think it is not genetic but more about how childern are raised, it will be more difficult to accept.

That depends. Many religious people ( I am not religious myself, and I don't wish to offend anyone who is) believe that homosexuals are born gay but that it's still "'wrong." That's why they try to "reform" them. It's seen as a "'defect" that can be changed. In the absence of that, many expect gays to remain celibate for life.

So even the "they are born that way" doesn't work with some people.

Personally I think anyone who does not observe that there is at least some genetic component to homosexuality is DENYING REALITY. I don't want to stereotype completely- but there are many people who are obviously gay and they do not purposely go around advertising it. Sure this is not true for all, but many people are obviously gay and it is given away by innate not chosen characteristics.

To me I think most people are born that way or at least leaning strongly to a certain orientation. However, I do not really care either way- as I don't find anything wrong with it. If it is a choice, people choosing that doesn't bother me either ( some people probably are born bisexual as well or however you want to describe it and have a little choice at least).

FWIW, the churches I am comfortable with- if they oppose homosexuality as one of the sins then they treat it like any other sin. No more no less. Though personally I find nothing wrong with homosexuality- at least this view seems consistent to me. What I find particularly distasteful is those who have some kind of OBSESSION with homosexuality as some grave sin and danger to society above every other issue. Some characters like this would prefer that children are abused , molested, and murdered rather than have them "exposed" to a homosexual parent. Among other things.

A lot of other things are considered sins and many religions consider ALL people to be "sinners" so I guess NO ONE should be allowed to adopt.

 

[Tdcci]

Many asinine things are sins, but Christians choose to cherry pick what they will enforce. The Bible only justifies fear of different people. Is this not an ugly form of collectivism?

 

[Red Dingo]

Many asinine things are sins, but Christians choose to cherry pick what they will enforce. The Bible only justifies fear of different people. Is this not an ugly form of collectivism?

Meh, you must realise that what has happened with politics in the U.S. (99% corrupt, few people like Ron Paul who are right) is comparable to say, Christianity (huge percent misrepresenting the teachings of the Jewish books and New testament, less who genuinely 'love their enemy' as themselves and humbly/boldly hold to Paul's teaching of 'the Christ'). If anything, I suggest you look at Ron Paul as a good representation of a genuine Christian/person of faith. Surely you can't deny me this?

 

[Tdcci]

It is because of him I still have an ounce of respect for the religion.

 

[rmholla]

Perhaps if people were aware that homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom this issue would go away. If it happens in nature then it cannot, by definition, be "unnatural."

Gay animals rearing young is also quite common. From the gay penguins in the zoo to researchers noting that gay male swans will steal eggs from nests so they can raise the chicks.

-

 

[weslinder]

I'm adopted. I believe homosexuality is immoral and not innate. My sister is gay and she is on a waiting list to adopt.[/qualifications]

I think Dr. Paul would be for total freedom in adoption. He'd be for the ability for gays or singles to adopt if the party giving the baby up (mother or agency) was okay with it. He'd also would be for allowing adoption agencies to discriminate against homosexuals or singles in child placement. (This is a religious freedom issue.)

 

[Tdcci]

I believe homosexuality is immoral and not innate.

Why do you believe homosexuality is immoral?
Why do you believe homosexuality is not innate?

 

[weslinder]

Belongs in another thread, but whatever.

Why do you believe homosexuality is immoral?

Religious belief

Why do you believe homosexuality is not innate?

Personal observation of many homosexuals in my life. My sister was boy crazy throughout her childhood and young adulthood. She never even considered lesbianism until she was treated really badly by her husband and subsequent boyfriends.

 

[jason43]

My opinion is that I am not really into the idea of gay adoption... but then I think about it and kids get abused/molested every day by people who are their foster parents, parents, and step parents. So if being gay is the worst you can say about someone, I'd rather have them have the kids than someone who would hurt the kid.

I have mixed emotions about it, but thinking about it objectively, there are worse situations and if they want a kid and can help them live a healthy life, then I am all for it...

 

[SeanEdwards]

It depends on what people think in general about: Why homosexuals are homosexuals? If the majority think it is because of a genetic reason, then the adoption idea would be more acceptable. But in case they think it is not genetic but more about how childern are raised, it will be more difficult to accept.

That distinction isn't important to me at all.

My opinion is based on the fact that human beings have evolved such that a single female and a single male of the species are required for reproduction. For that reason, I believe it is important for children to be exposed to a parental model that can teach them a reproductive strategy that will help them succesfully become parents themselves. I'm not convinced that two same sex parents are demonstrating an effective reproductive strategy that will assist their adopted child in developing a successful reproductive adult life of their own.

I actually have a similar opinion of single mothers. I think generally that the children who grow up with dysfunctional parental organizations have a higher incidence of having relationship issues when they are adults, and are less likely to form parental partnerships of their own. And when I say dysfunctional, I don't mean abusive, I mean the kid is not learning a biologically compatible reproductive identity strategy.

So I'm not real thrilled with the idea of widespread gay adoption and total equality between gay adoption and adoption by heterosexual parents. However, if the child in question is already the child of one gay parent (through previous marriage, or whatever), then I'm less resistant to the gay partner getting parental legal rights. I certainly don't support taking children away from their parents, whether they're gay or straight. I'm just not comfortable with society embracing gay adoption or single motherhood. I think children deserve a chance to have a stable growing environment where they can have both a mother and a father.

 

[weslinder]

My opinion is based on the fact that human beings have evolved such that a single female and a single male of the species are required for reproduction.

What's wrong with a married couple reproducing?