Riots in London

[UWDude]

You are being a bit disingenuous the same article mentions roving gangs of 150-200 youth attacking shops. People want a swift and just response to that. I don't see people here crying about a police station.

No I am not being disingenuous. read more articles if you want more examples. I am done playing childish games with you,.

 

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

Here's my issue -- what do you think revolt would look like, especially given how our media works?

You wouldn't hear about political reasons, you'd hear about the idiot on the street stealing a tv.
You wouldn't hear about the non-violent protesters, you'd see endless replays of some building burning.
You wouldn't hear calls to action, you'd hear talking heads and 'people on the street' calling the protesters 'looters' and 'thugs'.

Not to mention, even if every single person involved was non-violent and willful, you'd only need a single agent provocateur to start something up.

And that's not even getting into police response to large groups of people -- what happens when non-violent people start getting beaten and pepper sprayed? You get video of 'protesters' looking crazy. There is a ton of video on youtube which shows 'news coverage' of events next to the same exact event from a civilian camera -- showing how absolutely incorrect the media narrative is.

My point, really, is that when people revolt, we will be told it is looting and pillaging. Every time. No matter the reason. (Unless, of course, we dislike the gov't of some other country, in which case it's okay to call it revolt).

TPTB are attempting to play the race card.

The media and its' owners are definitely trying to stir the pot to keep attention off them and have the masses beg for more tyranny.

 

[silverhandorder]

To be fair, a majority did not even passively support the American Revolution. You had about 3% who actively supported the Revolution, right around 30% who passively supported it, 35% who frankly didn't care either way, 30% who passively opposed it, and 2% who actively opposed it.

Point being, only 5% of the colonists cared enough to actually do anything, and the plurality didn't care either way. There was no majority,really, in any camp.

Well I did say minority would have to be insurgents and from what I read of Revolutionary War it was that.

 

[foofighter20x]

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

the phantom moderator.

 

[affa]

That would be very disorganized revolt and will not go anywhere. For revolt to be successful either majority has to passively support and in that case it will be relatively peaceful or the minority would have to be insurgents and in that case there would be counter information being distributed.

However in today's age it is easy to tell a riot for what it is. People that are affected go on twitter and post videos and pictures and tell their stories. While the rioters obviously do not. So one can see wanton destruction of property by criminals without having media tell it is. While propaganda exists for those informed it is easy to spot the difference between the two.

I think you underestimate the ability of the media to spin events. What twitters and videos are you following? Those of the people actually out in the streets? Or those of the people decrying them?

I am not saying these riots are necessarily valid. I am, however, saying any general uprising will be dismissed as looting, pillaging, and thuggery. It's easy. And there will always be those who don't want an uprising -- who will be tweeting and dismissing those involved.

Heck, just look at the way they pinned the downgrade on the 'tea party'. It's so easy for them. And sure, the 'informed' might know the difference, but everyone considers themselves informed, even if it be by FOX news.

 

[affa]

To be fair, a majority did not even passively support the American Revolution. You had about 3% who actively supported the Revolution, right around 30% who passively supported it, 35% who frankly didn't care either way, 30% who passively opposed it, and 2% who actively opposed it.

Point being, only 5% of the colonists cared enough to actually do anything, and the plurality didn't care either way. There was no majority,really, in any camp.

I don't know that your numbers are correct, but they sound about right. And that's exactly the point I'm making. Add in an omni-present media owned by the corporations and in bed with the gov't... and we wouldn't have had the revolution. They'd have been destroyed by the media before they got going, painted as thugs or whatever.

As long as the media is not on our side, we will have a very, very difficult time trying to change things in this world.

 

[DamianTV]

The Media will never endorse a Revolution against them, peacefull or otherwise.

Now, as far as the Riots, I dont think a lot of those people in the Riots are protesting the Cop Killing or whatever sparked the hostility, the majority is using it as an excuse to either take from the Have's, or to Damage the Property of the Have's.

(Have's meaning Have and Have Not's)

The few that may actually care about the consequences of the Sparking Event will have their voices drowned out by the screams of the looters. To me, this doesnt stand as a productive riot, this stands as Mass Looting, and violence on the streets is used as an excuse to commit the Looting.

 

[foofighter20x]

For anyone over in the UK, remember the handy jingle!

0118 999 881 999 119 725 ... 3

 

[BucksforPaul]

I love it how the Neo-NAZIS are starting to hide behind the newly found meme of "multiculturalism" all the while ignoring the greatest success of this exact concept known as the United States of America. Frankly, I am surprised that this crap is tolerated here on these forums.

Hey everybody lets us all try the NAZI experiment of a superior race and kill off everyone who does not look like us because we are the chosen ones. /sarcasm

 

[blabam]

"multiculturalism" failing can easily be replaced with the failing of socialism.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I love it how the Neo-NAZIS are starting to hide behind the newly found meme of "multiculturalism" all the while ignoring the greatest success of this exact concept known as the United States of America. Frankly, I am surprised that this crap is tolerated here on these forums.

Hey everybody lets us all try the NAZI experiment of a superior race and kill off everyone who does not look like us because we are the chosen ones. /sarcasm

"Multi-culturalism" works when the government policy is assimilation and not political correctness/diversity and that too only in the absence of a welfare state.

In Britain, the case obviously isn't so.

Hire someone to knock that neo-nazi paranoia chip off your shoulder.

 

[limequat]

I love it how the Neo-NAZIS are starting to hide behind the newly found meme of "multiculturalism" all the while ignoring the greatest success of this exact concept known as the United States of America. Frankly, I am surprised that this crap is tolerated here on these forums.

Hey everybody lets us all try the NAZI experiment of a superior race and kill off everyone who does not look like us because we are the chosen ones. /sarcasm

Europe is learning why America is one of the most violent 1st world nations.

 

[denison]

For anyone over in the UK, remember the handy jingle!

0118 999 881 999 119 725 ... 3

OMG, an IT crowd reference on RP forum. It really is a small world.

 

[silverhandorder]

I think you underestimate the ability of the media to spin events. What twitters and videos are you following? Those of the people actually out in the streets? Or those of the people decrying them?

I am not saying these riots are necessarily valid. I am, however, saying any general uprising will be dismissed as looting, pillaging, and thuggery. It's easy. And there will always be those who don't want an uprising -- who will be tweeting and dismissing those involved.

Heck, just look at the way they pinned the downgrade on the 'tea party'. It's so easy for them. And sure, the 'informed' might know the difference, but everyone considers themselves informed, even if it be by FOX news.

In a revolution there will absolutely be counter videos and pictures. This is one the very telling signs that this is a riot. Also I focus on the informed here because you are addressing people on a political forum. If you said the same thing in class when some liberal yuppie was running her mouth off about the great media I would not say anything.

 

[UWDude]

The "this is the result of multicultralism" argument is just absurd racism. For one, whites and blacks are looting together, and it is not really immigrant communities like the Paris riots a few years ago. For two, the mostly muslim communities like the Turk communities are not rioting at all.

I see a lot of racists claiming this is the result of multiculturalism, but i Have yet to see any logical explanation as to how multiculturalism is the cause.

Furthermore, there is nothing difficult about retaining ones culture and still upholding american values. The only detriment could be if people refused ot learn English, but usually, 2nd generation Americans are native English speakers.

 

[Mini-Me]

I think you underestimate the ability of the media to spin events. What twitters and videos are you following? Those of the people actually out in the streets? Or those of the people decrying them?

I am not saying these riots are necessarily valid. I am, however, saying any general uprising will be dismissed as looting, pillaging, and thuggery. It's easy. And there will always be those who don't want an uprising -- who will be tweeting and dismissing those involved.

Heck, just look at the way they pinned the downgrade on the 'tea party'. It's so easy for them. And sure, the 'informed' might know the difference, but everyone considers themselves informed, even if it be by FOX news.

In a revolution there will absolutely be counter videos and pictures. This is one the very telling signs that this is a riot. Also I focus on the informed here because you are addressing people on a political forum. If you said the same thing in class when some liberal yuppie was running her mouth off about the great media I would not say anything.

You both make great points. Although this particular riot seems to be a genuine case of "mindless beatdowns and looting by thugs," it's true that any and every uprising will be portrayed as such by the media to the greatest extent possible, and agent provocateurs will try to make the crowd as mindless as possible. Of course, that just makes it more important to discourage and guard against that kind of behavior as much as possible.

Real revolt, and making a real statement, requires a lot more courage, but it makes a much more lasting and much more productive impression. If people marched on Downing Street, bodily carried all of the politicians out of office, and threw them in the Thames to humiliate them...that would make an impression. It wouldn't be easy for the media to ignore either.

It would be suicide for many though, and the only way to do it without an all-out civil war would be to go in half-Gandhi-style and let the cops do all the shooting, while waves of people continue to move forward and past them. It would also be extremely difficult to muster up enough courage to simply walk up like a self-aware lamb to the slaughter, and it would be even more difficult to convince a crowd of countless thousands to follow.

 

[affa]

In a revolution there will absolutely be counter videos and pictures. This is one the very telling signs that this is a riot. Also I focus on the informed here because you are addressing people on a political forum. If you said the same thing in class when some liberal yuppie was running her mouth off about the great media I would not say anything.

There are counter notes -- people discussing the politics of the matter, the police brutality, the class differential. But these voices are being ignored for the louder voices of the mob. But regardless, I am not talking about this particular event. I am talking about future ones.

And my point is, you can not have an significant uprising without looting to some degree, and that will be capitalized on by the media. The majority of the populace will turn on their television and hear 'looters'. I mean, heck, even during Katrina that's all we heard about. The L.A. Riots. And on and on.

Switching topics a bit, as you say, we are the informed. We know what an uprising looks like. But for the uninformed, a riot -- looting and all -- is an uprising. It's a rejection of the status quo, a demand to be noticed. And yes, it isn't pretty. It isn't the civilized uprising we all hope for, but to dismiss all that pent up anger as 'thuggery' misses the point. You couldn't possible get a rich suburb that worked up. If the cops tazed some guy to death, you'd see it in the paper, and people would poo poo about it over tea. But you can get the 'peasants' that worked up. The ones that are angry with the system, the police, the government, the economy, their lot in life... and this is what you get. Blind fury. But it's still an uprising.

And since all uprisings will be presented on the media as a 'bunch of looters', and the talking heads will never quite say why it's happening (or lie, if they do), and since, regardless of what goes down or how it goes down, many civilians will have something to lose (many cling to the status quo), whoever starts an uprising of any type is going to be presented as the enemy. Full force by the media.

 

[silverhandorder]

Well all I have to say do you think it is our kind of uprising? What do you think will happen if our statist rulers lose control? You will see the collapse of government security systems and we will be scrambling to defend our selves from this "uprising".

In my view it is easy for us to see what is a good uprising and what most people simply call a riot. For people plugged into the internet they could easily see the ratio of people being beaten and mugged vs government institutions being attacked. I can't see how we can take advantage of what I would call a riot. We could try to draw lessons and agitate that this is a failure of the state but we wouldn't be able to herd the rioters into a group that will work with us.

As far as a real uprising goes what will determine it's success would be how well the people participating in it can organize. If they can police them selves from participating in looting and helping others stop looting they have won half the battle. The other one would be countering the propaganda that would be thrown their way.

I am sorry but I don't see the point of us arguing. I could only guess that you are bothered at the thought that if the real uprising happens many informed people would be duped by propaganda.

 

[anaconda]

Shop looted and youths storm McDonald's and start cooking their own food..LOL..all that rioting makes one hungry!!

I'd go straight for the chicken nuggets.