Opinion is controlled by mass media. There was a peaceful protest of 750,000 people on Mar 26th, and June 30th in England. Did you even hear about it? why isn't the media covering the ongoing peaceful protests in Spain and Greece, where the police are committing most of the violence? Even the protest in Israel has got little more than passing attention. Peaceful protest is a waste of time, because if the media ignores it, it simply does not exist.
Riots in London
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silverhandorder
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March protests had looting as well. They are actually a catalyst for these riots because that was when the ghettos realized that there was little retribution to looting.
Besides all of these protests are coming from the left and considering all countries you mentioned the left rules it is easy to see how there is little sympathy to be drawn. Conservatives are not going to all of a sudden come out and support the left in those countries and the left in those countries knows it got those kids tied up. It is not like people in Spain and Israel are going to all of a sudden turn around and start voting for the conservatives that want to take their privileges away. Furthermore their demand are absolutely unreal, all the countries in question are broke and they are asking more from them, even if their left overlords wanted to give them their demands they can't physically meet them.
Besides all of these protests are coming from the left and considering all countries you mentioned the left rules it is easy to see how there is little sympathy to be drawn. Conservatives are not going to all of a sudden come out and support the left in those countries and the left in those countries knows it got those kids tied up. It is not like people in Spain and Israel are going to all of a sudden turn around and start voting for the conservatives that want to take their privileges away. Furthermore their demand are absolutely unreal, all the countries in question are broke and they are asking more from them, even if their left overlords wanted to give them their demands they can't physically meet them.
Vessol
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For all those saying that this is the cause of multi-culturalism. This is the cause of a generation of kids being raised to believe that the State will give them everything in life, and when that turns out to be the farce that it is, the poorest will be the first to riot in the streets. And that tends to be minorities in most countries.
I'm already reading reports of many minority groups in cities forming militias to protect their property from looters.
I'm already reading reports of many minority groups in cities forming militias to protect their property from looters.
The bankers of those countries are not broke, and the war profiteers are not broke, they are reaping record profits.
We aren't really arguing. We only disagree on one point - you think there is a difference between a riot like this and an uprising, and I think any 'difference' is moot because the 95% of people who get their news from the television will see the same thing. You think twitter and the internet will make a difference, and I think only people who 'care' will actually read these tweets and watch these youtube videos.
I've seen calls for the military to come in and kill these rioters all over the internet, and I think you'd see the same thing in any general uprising.
My point is that we need to be prepared to be scapegoated at all times -- we just got scapegoated for the 'tea party downgrade' (and i don't even consider myself tea party, i support RP and RP only). You think the internet will counter the media -- and I ask -- well, why doesn't it now, then? I mean, yes, it helps. But if you can show a single building burning, or report some injuries, or some property damage (no matter who caused it) it's very easy to sway people who support the status quo -- which is, sadly, almost everyone.
You say 'we can tell the difference between a riot and a uprising'... and i say, good luck with that when the media calls you a looter just because you went to a peaceful protest and the cops started pepper spraying people. I am not saying that's the only thing happening in this particular case -- my comments have never been strictly about these events, but the greater picture. Those against the status quo will always be painted as trouble makers. Every time. And to think because your (or my) cause is so glorious that we'll be saved by the internet is a bit optimistic. Look at how easy it was for the police to tell people the poor dead guy was in a 'shootout' that never was.
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BucksforPaul
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If it squawks like a Nazi then it must be a Nazi or should I use political correctness in trying to appease to these stains on humanity? If it looks like a Nazi then it must be a Nazi or should I not call them out on their hollow ideology and current talking point? If it smells like a Nazi then it must be a Nazi or should I ignore the opposite of "multiculturalism." The example of the United States is the biggest bitch slap in these scums faces and its time for these genocidal maniacs to come up with new propaganda. Care to explain to me the opposite of multiculturalism? As I pointed out earlier that horrible experiment was tried by the Nazis and the results are there for anyone capable of seeing. In fact, these current hatemongers are Nazis on steroids and thus I call them Neo-Nazis and it is a shame, imo, to not do so. Once upon a time in the United States, it was popular to call a spade a spade.
You should hire someone else to think for you because the current Nazis can't even provide you with valid talking points!
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silverhandorder
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@affa
I believe you are right that we need to be careful of being scapegoated.
My only point is for us not to join the riots or defend them when they are just riots.
No they are not because they are owned by the state in those countries anyways.
I believe you are right that we need to be careful of being scapegoated.
My only point is for us not to join the riots or defend them when they are just riots.
No they are not because they are owned by the state in those countries anyways.
showpan
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Angry working parents among rioters
Published On Fri Aug 12 2011
LONDON—Residents of a London housing estate laughed at a televised plea by police for parents to call their children and help rein in the youths who looted and burnt swathes of the city.
Not only were some of the parents at the riots themselves, but many of those taking part were not the hooded, teenage delinquents on which many have pinned the blame for the worst street riots Britain has seen for decades.
“Some of the parents were there. For some parents it was no big surprise their kids were there. They’ve gone through this all their lives,” said an Afro-Caribbean man of 22 who gave his name as “L,” voicing the frustration and anger felt by youth and parents over yawning inequalities in wealth and opportunity.
“I was on the train today in my work clothes and shoes. All different types took part in the riot. The man next to me was saying everyone who rioted should be gassed. He would never have guessed that I was there, that I took part,” he said.
L was seated at the entrance to a housing estate in Hackney, a London borough that suffered some of the worst destruction and violence in three days of riots that hit the capital after the fatal shooting of an Afro-Caribbean man by police.
Other young men were sitting with him, on a wall outside the drab flats typical of the subsidized housing that is home to many of Britain’s poor.
“They were not your typical hoodlums out there. There were working people, angry people. They’ve raised rates, cut child benefit. Everyone just used it as a chance to vent,” L said, referring to government austerity measures the poor say have hit them hardest.
Witness accounts and media footage reinforce his view — Afro-Caribbeans, Asians, whites and others of various ages were involved in riots that spread across London and further afield to the cities of Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol and Birmingham.
Politicians and police have described the riots as pure criminality, with youths emptying out shops in what looked like targeted raids. Some social commentators, however, point to public service cuts and high unemployment that have scarred poor, disadvantaged communities the most.
But no everyone fit the “hoodie’ stereotype.
A 43-year-old organic chef and an opera house steward are said to have been among those making their first appearance in court on Thursday. The pair pleaded not guilty to charges of looting and were remanded in custody.
A postman, a primary school mentor, lifeguard, charity worker and a father of a newborn baby were among other defendants appearing alongside schoolchildren and college students to answer charges ranging from theft to violent disorder.
As well, the 19-year-old daughter of a millionaire appeared in court charged with stealing £5,000-worth of electronic goods she allegedly looted in southeast London. She pleaded not guilty to five counts of burglary and was granted bail.
The unrest has stirred a debate about law and order and the social divide in modern Britain with many trying to pinpoint just who participated in the rioting and looting and fighting with police in London and other cities.
Britain’s mainstream media have seized on the stereotype of hooded, unemployed, violent youth as the culprits.
Among a large number of detained rioters that kept one London court busy throughout the night were a graphic designer, a graduate student and someone about to join the army.
On a typical day at the Hackney estate the young men, who apart from L were unemployed, congregate and while away the time, being careful to avoid the police, whom many refer to as the “Feds,” a term derived from U.S. federal law enforcers.
“If you’re not working, you find out what your friends are doing. We’re just socializing, generally. Keeping out of the radar of the police looking to get in our business,” said Ariom, 23, wearing baggy jeans and sporting corn-rows in his hair.
A police car drove by, and all heads turned towards it.
“These black boys are just sitting around, the Feds drive through, some harassment, they have a little weed on them. I used to work with youth offenders, and it hurt me to see the police’s approach,” said Michelle, 40, who had stopped to chat.
“My son is 12 years old, and he already knows that police do not work for black people.”
Hatred of the police is a recurring theme in Hackney.
L, back from work in a smart white shirt, smart shoes, black tie and black trousers, said he would still get stopped by police, despite his efforts to blend into wider society.
He declined to describe his job. All of those interviewed in Hackney were wary of giving away details that could allow them to be identified by the police.
“This supposed law and order is dishonest. I get stopped and searched. You won’t. They should just say, ‘I’m stopping you because you’re black,’ ” L said, standing and raising his voice.
“If you ask the youths, they’re going to say they have the same dreams as the middle class. The same chances, a decent job, a high standard of living. I know guys that are selling drugs and they want to start their own legitimate business.”
Michelle said she had quit her job with the police youth offenders unit because her children and others saw her as an informer.
She sympathized with the rioters and looters.
“Before, it was if a black man is killed, it’s OK, ‘black on black crime’. Now, when it’s property damaged or stolen, it’s uproar. What other platform have the youths got?” she said.
At a nearby housing estate, heavily tattooed Jackie, 39, resented what she saw as the media’s portrayal of the riots as mindless youth violence.
“This was not kids. This was youths and adults coming together against the crap that’s been going on since the coalition,” she said, referring to Britain’s conservative-led government, which has made deep austerity cuts since coming into power last year to tackle a big budget deficit.
“They’re saying it’s all young hoodies. Look at me, now I’m a hoodie,” she said, putting her hood up, looking like the lithe teenage rioters shown in television footage.
“I was out in the riots. My 16-year-old daughter was calling me asking where I was,” she said, chuckling.
She stood with a group of Afro-Caribbean men and women on a street corner, muttering and eyeballing the police who stood some metres away across the road. Shattered glass from the riots still littered the road in places.
She and others had little sympathy for many of the store owners whose premises had been looted and burned, identifying most as big chain stores that offer little to their community.
Many of the more upmarket stores cater for growing numbers of middle-class professionals and white hipsters who have moved in recent years into Hackney’s handsome townhouses, of which many sit metres away from poor housing estates.
“The looting was done, not just because they can’t afford the stuff, it was done to show they just don’t give a s---. . . . We’re here and not going away,” Michelle said.
Published On Fri Aug 12 2011
LONDON—Residents of a London housing estate laughed at a televised plea by police for parents to call their children and help rein in the youths who looted and burnt swathes of the city.
Not only were some of the parents at the riots themselves, but many of those taking part were not the hooded, teenage delinquents on which many have pinned the blame for the worst street riots Britain has seen for decades.
“Some of the parents were there. For some parents it was no big surprise their kids were there. They’ve gone through this all their lives,” said an Afro-Caribbean man of 22 who gave his name as “L,” voicing the frustration and anger felt by youth and parents over yawning inequalities in wealth and opportunity.
“I was on the train today in my work clothes and shoes. All different types took part in the riot. The man next to me was saying everyone who rioted should be gassed. He would never have guessed that I was there, that I took part,” he said.
L was seated at the entrance to a housing estate in Hackney, a London borough that suffered some of the worst destruction and violence in three days of riots that hit the capital after the fatal shooting of an Afro-Caribbean man by police.
Other young men were sitting with him, on a wall outside the drab flats typical of the subsidized housing that is home to many of Britain’s poor.
“They were not your typical hoodlums out there. There were working people, angry people. They’ve raised rates, cut child benefit. Everyone just used it as a chance to vent,” L said, referring to government austerity measures the poor say have hit them hardest.
Witness accounts and media footage reinforce his view — Afro-Caribbeans, Asians, whites and others of various ages were involved in riots that spread across London and further afield to the cities of Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol and Birmingham.
Politicians and police have described the riots as pure criminality, with youths emptying out shops in what looked like targeted raids. Some social commentators, however, point to public service cuts and high unemployment that have scarred poor, disadvantaged communities the most.
But no everyone fit the “hoodie’ stereotype.
A 43-year-old organic chef and an opera house steward are said to have been among those making their first appearance in court on Thursday. The pair pleaded not guilty to charges of looting and were remanded in custody.
A postman, a primary school mentor, lifeguard, charity worker and a father of a newborn baby were among other defendants appearing alongside schoolchildren and college students to answer charges ranging from theft to violent disorder.
As well, the 19-year-old daughter of a millionaire appeared in court charged with stealing £5,000-worth of electronic goods she allegedly looted in southeast London. She pleaded not guilty to five counts of burglary and was granted bail.
The unrest has stirred a debate about law and order and the social divide in modern Britain with many trying to pinpoint just who participated in the rioting and looting and fighting with police in London and other cities.
Britain’s mainstream media have seized on the stereotype of hooded, unemployed, violent youth as the culprits.
Among a large number of detained rioters that kept one London court busy throughout the night were a graphic designer, a graduate student and someone about to join the army.
On a typical day at the Hackney estate the young men, who apart from L were unemployed, congregate and while away the time, being careful to avoid the police, whom many refer to as the “Feds,” a term derived from U.S. federal law enforcers.
“If you’re not working, you find out what your friends are doing. We’re just socializing, generally. Keeping out of the radar of the police looking to get in our business,” said Ariom, 23, wearing baggy jeans and sporting corn-rows in his hair.
A police car drove by, and all heads turned towards it.
“These black boys are just sitting around, the Feds drive through, some harassment, they have a little weed on them. I used to work with youth offenders, and it hurt me to see the police’s approach,” said Michelle, 40, who had stopped to chat.
“My son is 12 years old, and he already knows that police do not work for black people.”
Hatred of the police is a recurring theme in Hackney.
L, back from work in a smart white shirt, smart shoes, black tie and black trousers, said he would still get stopped by police, despite his efforts to blend into wider society.
He declined to describe his job. All of those interviewed in Hackney were wary of giving away details that could allow them to be identified by the police.
“This supposed law and order is dishonest. I get stopped and searched. You won’t. They should just say, ‘I’m stopping you because you’re black,’ ” L said, standing and raising his voice.
“If you ask the youths, they’re going to say they have the same dreams as the middle class. The same chances, a decent job, a high standard of living. I know guys that are selling drugs and they want to start their own legitimate business.”
Michelle said she had quit her job with the police youth offenders unit because her children and others saw her as an informer.
She sympathized with the rioters and looters.
“Before, it was if a black man is killed, it’s OK, ‘black on black crime’. Now, when it’s property damaged or stolen, it’s uproar. What other platform have the youths got?” she said.
At a nearby housing estate, heavily tattooed Jackie, 39, resented what she saw as the media’s portrayal of the riots as mindless youth violence.
“This was not kids. This was youths and adults coming together against the crap that’s been going on since the coalition,” she said, referring to Britain’s conservative-led government, which has made deep austerity cuts since coming into power last year to tackle a big budget deficit.
“They’re saying it’s all young hoodies. Look at me, now I’m a hoodie,” she said, putting her hood up, looking like the lithe teenage rioters shown in television footage.
“I was out in the riots. My 16-year-old daughter was calling me asking where I was,” she said, chuckling.
She stood with a group of Afro-Caribbean men and women on a street corner, muttering and eyeballing the police who stood some metres away across the road. Shattered glass from the riots still littered the road in places.
She and others had little sympathy for many of the store owners whose premises had been looted and burned, identifying most as big chain stores that offer little to their community.
Many of the more upmarket stores cater for growing numbers of middle-class professionals and white hipsters who have moved in recent years into Hackney’s handsome townhouses, of which many sit metres away from poor housing estates.
“The looting was done, not just because they can’t afford the stuff, it was done to show they just don’t give a s---. . . . We’re here and not going away,” Michelle said.
wannaberocker
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Intresting article. So the poor riot because they claim there a large income gap between rich and poor (hmm i thought euro socialism was suppose to solve that). Whats the next step for England? Communism?
wannaberocker
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When you have Mob rule you absolutly can expect "Some" people to stand tall and protect their property. People can say whatever they want about Muslims, But one thing you cant say is that they are scared to fight for themselves. When their property is threatened they will fight and they will fight hard to protect their interest. So i cant say im surprised to hear that muslims tried to fight against the mob violance.
What do they want a parade in there honor now?
What do they want a parade in there honor now?
Who said they wanted a parade? Do you have any evidence to support this collectivist theory of yours?
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wannaberocker
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i was simply stating this in responce to the line in the article "the brave Muslims involved have received no praise for their outstanding bravery". My reply in a way is to mock the writer of the article who seems to believe that muslims need to be singled out for praise.
and no i wont kill myself as you so kindly told me to do.
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such a sad, sad post.
EDITED TO ADD: if your issue is with the author of an article for a line they wrote, then why transfer the ridicule to an entire people rather than an individual author? People are individuals.
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The writer was quoting another author, Robert Lambert who was talking about another incident, not the riots.
Next time, make sure you mention the entire quote:
Now how do you know that the original writer of the article seems to believe that Muslims need to be singled out for praise? Did you ask the author this question or did you assume this without any evidence?
The author is stating that instead of receiving praise, (btw praise does not automatically = parade) they received denigration.
The author is stating what happened instead of what probably you would expect to happen. Glad I cleared that up for you.
Your original post:
They refers to Muslims obviously.
So how do you know that Muslims want a parade? Please answer the question this time.
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wannaberocker
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IF you read my post i actually asked the question "What do they want a parade in there honor now? " Im assuming your a muslim, so you would prob be in a better position to answer my question. So ill ask again "do muslims want a parade for protecting there self interest?".
The same way you cannot criticize all muslims for wrong, you cannot put up all muslims for praise either. Were there muslims taking part in the riots? Absolutly there were muslim youth that were taking part in the riots. But were there muslims out trying to protect there property? Absolutly there were.
Here is the bottom line. You posted this article because you want collectivist praise for muslims. However, when it comes to critique you get your panties in a bunch. That does speak volumes about the kinda mind you have, dosnt it.
I don't speak for all Muslims, so please don't ask such retarded questions.
No, I don't want any collectivist praise for Muslims. I post articles so people may learn information.
I don't want Muslims denigrated in the media either, especially when they are doing good things. This is what the author mentioned. He said Muslims did a good thing, and instead of receiving any praise, they received denigration. Is the author not allowed to say that in your small little mind?
Like I said before, that quote was not referring to the riots at all.
Now you say there was a critique. I have yet to read any critique.
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