Revelation

[Southron]

Because, well, no offense, they're a little on the crazy side. And the Genesis stories are scientifically wrong. Creation is all in the wrong order. To believe them as literal truth is just to be wrong. At best, they must therefore be allegorical in nature.(Edited)

Chasing rabbit trails but...

From a Christian perspective, they are not crazy if you consider an all-powerful God who created the Earth and everything in it in 7 days. Even those miracles don't compare to the question of why Jesus would die for a wretch like me.

Also, popular scientific beliefs have, in the past been proven wrong, and will continue to be proven wrong in the future.

 

[Sola_Fide]

If you believe the FIRST SENTENCE of the Bible, believing in the rest of it should be easy.

If you believe God CREATED EVERYTHING, then why would anyone believe the rest is just "too hard to swallow"??

Yes, not only this, but the attack on creation is an attack on Jesus, because all things were created by Him and for Him:

Colossians 1:15-20 NASB

He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Isn't it interesting to note that in this passage that proclaims the deity of Jesus, it brings everything together with Jesus' role as Creator.

The attack on the account of creation in the Bible is an attack on Jesus Himself....don't let anyone fool you. The people who think they can walk the fence between secular science and respect for Jesus are deluded by the sin that has darkened their mind.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Why have the Jews stopped writing the Old Testament?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Why have the Jews stopped writing the Old Testament?

Because the time of revelation through prophets has ceased, and in these last days God has spoken to us through His Son:

Hebrews 1:1-4 NASB

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

(Isn't it interesting...another verse that proclaims the deity of Jesus and linking to it His role in creation)

 

[DamianTV]

I was talking with a friend of the family and we got into the conversation of Israel, middle east, Iran, Islamic fundamentalists etc. I have never debated a evangelical Christian about this, I never mentioned Ron Paul Foreign policy, only debating why he felt necessary to have war in the middle east.


He is a futurist believer about revelation. He brought up its in the Bible under revelation where it is written that Israel will come back, which it has in a way and evil forces will destroy the Islamic temple in Jeruseluem and after that Jesus will come back as a warrior with a sword to save us all and show us the way to a utopia. If this is what many believe then it seems they want war in the middle east so Jesus will return.

He believes that there is evil in the world and it is the islamic fundamentalists that want to kill us, and that is why 911 happened. I tried to use logic and said the US had bases there, but he looks at the world in a different view than I do. I tried to explain common sense about Iran wanting to defend themselves, that we need peace not war, but he said the Islamist fundamentalist do not want peace but to spread sharia law throughout the world and even if we practiced peace they would still try to kill us to obtain their goals.

Is there anyway to get through to this kind of person to make them understand or is it impossible because their deep faith and beliefs in the written word of the bible? If this is the way so many evangelicals are no wonder Ron Paul is getting written off for not being an israel firster.

An Atheist point of view that is used to solve many problems is simply to ask "What if it were me?" What if it were MY country being invaded and forcibly having a foreign religion forced upon my people? What if the invading country were after my countries resources? What if the invading country treated our citizens as Less than Human? What if they refused to listen to our polite requests? What if everything we did for peace they purposefully misinterpreted as an Act of War? What if the real reason that they wanted War with our country was for their own Financial Benefit of their Richest? What if we tried to respond with Violence? What if we were stronger than the invaders and promoted Peace and Tolerance instead of War? What if my Destiny was beyond my control, who would I want to be in charge my Destiny? What if people went to YouTube and looked up Dr. Paul's "What If" video?

 

[Gimme Some Truth]

The way I understand it, Jesus was not a legend or a good man. He was either psychopathic liar or the Son of God.

Yea, that was CS Lewis' take on it ("Liar, Lunatic or Lord") but it's a false dilemma. Jesus could also have been a particularly sucessful preacher, a normal man like you or I, who was glorified by his followers and those who came after (ie. he was a legend)

Him being a legend doesn't mean that the moral teachings of his which you value are no longer worth valuing

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

I think changing the course of time lends a little more than legend status I mean Paul Bunyan made the Great Lakes but if you don't live around there you probably don't think of too much... every time you write the date you attest to the life of Christ.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Him being a legend doesn't mean that the moral teachings of his which you value are no longer worth valuing

Yes it does. Jesus said He was the I AM. He said if you didn't believe that He was God, you would die in your sins.

If Jesus was not who He said He was, why would you take moral advice from a grandiose liar or a laughable lunatic?