Republican party knows we have a good shot!

[WilliamC]

I'm sorry but I honestly don't get it.

Ron Paul isn't making excuses or lying about what he wants to do with the power he is seeking to obtain.

Yet his supporters should lie and misrepresent themselves in order to get him elected?

I won't tell anyone not to, but I truly don't see what purpose is served by trying to champion the cause of liberty by deliberately lying.

Personally, I will not come out and say I'm voting for Ron Paul no matter what and refuse to compromise (because that isn't true as I don't know the future, he could pass on or suffer an accident that would render him unable to serve for instance), but as long as he is in the race he is my first choice and I won't deny that.

I think these ideas pretty much sums up my stand on things.

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedom.cfm?fuseaction=membership

5. Wherever possible, become active in membership organizations that have the potential for affecting public policy. Work with others of like mind within those organizations to become influential. Use that influence to create support for the principles of freedom.

6. Participate in political action. Don’t just go to the polls now and then to vote for candidates selected by others. Become part of the process that chooses candidates in the first place. Hold loyalty to principle above loyalty to party, but remember, those who are not interested in politics will be forever ruled by those who are.

7. Whenever possible, seek employment in government, education, communications, and other institutions where you can exercise strong influence on behalf of freedom. Help others of like mind to obtain similar positions within your work force. Don’t fight city hall. Become city hall.

8. Leadership brings power but also responsibility. When holding positions of authority, adhere to the highest standards of honesty and integrity. Never betray those you lead.

9. Live by your principles without compromise. Let it be known where you stand. You cannot achieve victory by hiding. Popular approval is not your primary concern. You are a warrior. Accept the risks and the consequences. Stand tall in your convictions. Be an example for others.

 

[Swearengen]

I don't see why anyone has to lie...

I'm just going to say that I'm very concerned at the national support for Hillary and Obama and want to help do something about it!

 

[nbhadja]

I don't see why anyone has to lie...

I'm just going to say that I'm very concerned at the national support for Hillary and Obama and want to help do something about it!

Because if you tell the truth that you are a RP supporter you have a good chance of being rejected.
The Neocons lie, so we lie back.

 

[WilliamC]

Because if you tell the truth that you are a RP supporter you have a good chance of being rejected.
The Neocons lie, so we lie back.

And thus you start to become what you are fighting....

I'm not advocating shouting RON PAUL at the top of your lungs during meetings, but I cannot support deliberate lying about supporting him either.

 

[literatim]

The ends justify the means, yes?

As long as you aren't hurting anyone.

I think you've missed a big part of what Ron Paul's message is all about

I don't see much difference between lying to become a delegate and civil disobedience.

I won't tell anyone not to, but I truly don't see what purpose is served by trying to champion the cause of liberty by deliberately lying.

You would rather lose your country?

And thus you start to become what you are fighting....

You are using the same weapon. You don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

 

[WilliamC]

1) As long as you aren't hurting anyone.

2) I don't see much difference between lying to become a delegate and civil disobedience.

I won't tell anyone not to, but I truly don't see what purpose is served by trying to champion the cause of liberty by deliberately lying.

3 ) You would rather lose your country?

1) Ron Paul's reputation is harmed by his supporters lying about supporting him in order to advance his cause.

2) Civil disobedience is not the same as lying.

3) It's not an either/or situation.

Again, I'm not going to rant about people lying about their intentions, but personally I'm not very good at it and in this case I don't see the need for it.

Yes, in some situations lying in self-defense is appropriate, but I don't see this as one of them.

And no, I don't think that I am seriously jepardizing my chances if I don't lie about my motives for wanting to become a delegate.

Again, I'm not saying (in the context of attending Republican Party meetings) that I'm voting for Ron Paul no matter what, but I will say I think he is the best candidate the Republicans could nominate.

Civil disobedience would come in to play if, as a bound delegate I were to deliberately vote against the candidate I was bound to and then be willing to accept the consenquences.

That is an option I would consider.

 

[Bruno]

And thus you start to become what you are fighting....

I'm not advocating shouting RON PAUL at the top of your lungs during meetings, but I cannot support deliberate lying about supporting him either.

This is obviously an ethical debate as supporters of the movement and as individuals.
Leave it to your own conscience to decide.

Do you want to volunteer openly as a Ron Paul supporter and risk suppression from participation, or use some subtle phrasing like "I support Conservitive ideals", or "I am ready to take on Clinton or Obama".

For the record, I do believe the ends justifies the means in this case. There is far more at stake than pride in how an election is won.

I thank anyone in advance who bends the truth if necessary to get Ron Paul in the White House.

I would rather have what would be seen at worst as a sneaky trick in using the party's own rules to receive a nomination (far more legal than what McCain is doing to get out of his FEC pubic matching funds) than to lose and see Americans lose all our freedoms, sovereignty, and wealth.

Do we tell our children and grandchildren that we were "this close" to saving their freedoms but we were collectively unwilling to bend the truth? I know most of us are far more willing to do much more as time goes on and events deem it necessary to save our country from those who would use their power to oppress us.

If this is how the Revolution was won (by sneaking in delegates), it would be the least violent, most ethical Revolution in world history.

 

[literatim]

1) Ron Paul's reputation is harmed by his supporters lying about supporting him in order to advance his cause.

Prove it.

2) Civil disobedience is not the same as lying.

Lying to gain a foothold in a completely corrupt system is very much akin to civil disobedience.

3) It's not an either/or situation.

Yeah, because being noble has really done us a whole lot of good.

Yes, in some situations lying in self-defense is appropriate, but I don't see this as one of them.

So you don't think the idea of preventing the globalists from completely owning this country and its populace is worth lying to stop? So when they signed in the PATRIOT Act, that was just a good natured prank? "Gotcha!"

 

[acptulsa]

Why the fight? William says he's not a good liar, and I say thank you for knowing your limits. Bet you don't play poker, either. So, go and represent us well. I was at our county convention and may well have converted a Huckabee supporter ("Ron Paul wants to do away with the IRS too?"). If the under-the-radar types have a better shot at becoming delegates, at least you'll be there to vote for them.

There are many types of us in this movement, and I'm damned glad. We all have strengths and all our disparate strengths will be needed.

 

[Penners]

Beautiful post acptulsa! I agree that obtaining delegate positions can be an ethical quagmire. In my area we have to become presinct delgates, then county delgates, then district delegates then state delegates. If I read my county's rules correctly we have to declare who we are supporting. I am hoping that there is either no one, or only a few at the precinct level so I can use the ole "we have to stop obama/hillary" line. Immediately following the precinct elections we have the county election. If elected as a delegate I will at some point have to "declare". At this time I'm not sure what I'll say. It's unlikely that I can say I would vote McCain... so I may have to say Huckster. I am also planning on taking 2 short speeches with me (1) proclaiming my republican heritage and denouncing the welfare state the demos want to impose on us... with a line or two about less government, lower taxes... blah blah blah party line. (2) same as one but with emphasis on real conservative values and why that makes me a RON PAUL supporter.

I believe my meetup is having a mock convention here ... so we can know what to expect and practice.

Anyway, with regards to telling a lie..... ever make a little "adjustment" to your income tax expenses? Ever dodge telling the truth to avoid hurting someone's feelings (nah, me neither)...

It is each individual's choice based on their comfort level. We each need to do what is most comfortable... and keep in mind that only I have to look me in the face each morning and be ok with the lady who looks back. Only you have to be ok with that person who looks back at you each morning.

GO RON PAUL!!!

 

[acptulsa]

When they ask you who you support, say, "The vote of the people has bound me to ______ and as that is my duty that is who I will support!" Then hope they don't ask what you will do when you're no longer bound!

 

[syborius]

Our County Convention was Saturday. They had twice the number of people they're used to getting. They kind of loved it and were kind of scared, too. One guy claimed there were two candidates in the race for president and, when he noticed the reaction he was getting, hurredly brought up Ron Paul.

They were all about, "How do we capitalize on this movement?"

I said, "Stick to the conservative ideals we're here to represent."

Oh, they want us, make no mistake. They know why we're there, make no mistake about that, either. Just make them make the choice--do their crooked business as usual or survive as a political force in this nation.

LOL, thats funny....I really wonder what the true delegate count is, even with the bound delegates for Mccain, im sure we have many RP folks in there.

 

[syborius]

When they ask you who you support, say, "The vote of the people has bound me to ______ and as that is my duty that is who I will support!" Then hope they don't ask what you will do when you're no longer bound!

lie, simple. Sorry, do what you must. If you feel expulsion is coming because of your true ideals, hide them, if it doesn't benefit Ron Paul one bit to reveal your true ideals, and they demand to know what they are, feed them horse shit. Politics is not for the gullible, or the naive. It requires skill to get your man to the top, or create a lasting movement to remove the corrupt assholes in power currently. The trick is, to not lose your soul in the process.

 

[kigol]

 

[alaric]

This is obviously an ethical debate as supporters of the movement and as individuals.
Leave it to your own conscience to decide.

Do you want to volunteer openly as a Ron Paul supporter and risk suppression from participation, or use some subtle phrasing like "I support Conservitive ideals", or "I am ready to take on Clinton or Obama".

For the record, I do believe the ends justifies the means in this case. There is far more at stake than pride in how an election is won.

I thank anyone in advance who bends the truth if necessary to get Ron Paul in the White House.

I would rather have what would be seen at worst as a sneaky trick in using the party's own rules to receive a nomination (far more legal than what McCain is doing to get out of his FEC pubic matching funds) than to lose and see Americans lose all our freedoms, sovereignty, and wealth.

Do we tell our children and grandchildren that we were "this close" to saving their freedoms but we were collectively unwilling to bend the truth? I know most of us are far more willing to do much more as time goes on and events deem it necessary to save our country from those who would use their power to oppress us.

If this is how the Revolution was won (by sneaking in delegates), it would be the least violent, most ethical Revolution in world history.

here is an ethical way out:
When asked, just say nice things about Huckabee like: I like that he's a preacher. You like that he supports the 2nd amendment. You don't have to say you are a supporter to say 'nice things. Then on round 2, just take off your huck mask and vote for Ron!

 

[TruthAtLast]

It's not so much stupid pride as it is a difficulty in deliberate lying.

It just doesn't come out very well when I do it.

Of course some people may find it very easy to lie about who they are and what they stand for...but I don't think Ron Paul is one of them

we didn't make the rules. if the GOP wants to play fair, we'll play fair but no one can expect to take power away from those who not only have the power currently, but make the rules on how to take it from them.

It is like playing a football game and the other team has 50 men on the field, but also changed the rules and employed the refs to ALLOW them to have that many. Now, you can play with integrity and attempt to win with 11 men but you will lose.

I'd rather Ron Paul (or any other true Ron Paul Republican) win by virtually any means necessary.... then let them be altruistic and fall back on their core beliefs once they are in office. At that point who is going to stop them?

You can't fight a machine gun with nothing but a butterknife.

 

[nbhadja]

And thus you start to become what you are fighting....

I'm not advocating shouting RON PAUL at the top of your lungs during meetings, but I cannot support deliberate lying about supporting him either.

No I don't!!
I support a limited constitutional republic. I am against the war, the inflation, the taxes, the invasion of privacy, and illegal immigration. How does it then make me like them??????????????????? IT DOESN'T!

I never understood logic like that cause it does not make sense.

Potentially millions of lives overseas are on the line in addition to our country's future, I have no problem lying.

 

[WilliamC]

Well like I've said I'm not speaking out against anyone who wishes to use deception to advance the cause, and I'm surely not going to call anyone out because of it.

It's just I'd rather be as honest as possible in this cause and try and lead by example, as I see Ron Paul himself doing.

I don't know when if ever Ron Paul has lied or deceived while he has been in public office, so I can't understand how I am being true to his ideals if I do so to advance his (and mine and our) message.

Again, I'm not going to go to meetings shouting Ron Paul or nothing, but I will be outspoken in my belief that he is the best candidate that the Republicans can possibly offer this election cycle to win the White House, and that he is a true Conservative in the model of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan and has the voting record and integrity to prove it. Now if push comes to shove and I'm given a choice to become a delegate (which takes place after our primary) for a district that has voted to support another candidate, and if I have to become bound to that candidate to make it to the national convention, then the decision I have to make is whether or not I'm willing to lie and say "yes I'll vote for so-and-so" when in reality I actually plan to vote for Ron Paul and face the penalties of breaking my bond.

That seems more like what civil disobedience is, deliberately breaking a law (and I don't know specifically about Mississippi but there are States that make it a misdemeaner crime to break the pledge one makes as a bound delegate) and voting my conscious instead of voting for who my precinct sent me to vote for.

But if others think they can do better by falsely declaring support for Huckabee or McCain well good luck. I just hope if we do take the Convention by stealth, deception, and lies that there isn't much negative blowback against Ron Paul.

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

This is not criticizing anyone in particular but please do not act like a Neocon:

• Stop saying that you will "take over" the GOP unless you WANT to defeat Ron Paul by inviting blowback. Expect agent provocateurs to say we are trying to "take over" to sabotage us.
• It was the Neocons who took over/hijacked the GOP. You HELP the Neocons when you describe US as the foreign invaders (and grant the Neocons victim status).
• WE are RESTORING/SAVING/DEFENDING the GOP (principles).

How to pass the GOP loyalty test honestly: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=119834

 

[WilliamC]

No I don't!!
I support a limited constitutional republic. I am against the war, the inflation, the taxes, the invasion of privacy, and illegal immigration. How does it then make me like them??????????????????? IT DOESN'T!

I never understood logic like that cause it does not make sense.

Potentially millions of lives overseas are on the line in addition to our country's future, I have no problem lying.

I also support the things you mentioned, but I don't think that McCain does at all, and I'm not too sure Huckabee really does either. Of course the Democratic candidates don't.

Ron Paul does. That's why I say he is the best candidate that the Republicans can nominate. Obviously he isn't the only candidate they can nominate, and like I said I am not going to take the stance that it's Ron Paul or I quit with my local Republican Party.

I just don't understand the logic of deliberately lying that Ron Paul is not the best candidate that the Republicans have running. That's what many who call themselves Conservative (and who may really be but haven't thought through their positions as deeply as I) do when they say McCain is a true Conservative, or Huckabee is. One look at their records while in public office and you can tell they are not.

Why are people ashamed to associate themselves with Ron Pauls good name?

edit: not ashamed, but think it is wrong to do so?

I suppose I'm just not in a local Republican Party where I've seen much support for McCain. The one meeting I've attended so far I actually spoke up and said I was scared that if McCain gets the nomination not only will the Republicans lose the White House, but they will lose more seats in Congress as a result.

No one spoke up for McCain, and I could see several people nodding in agreement as I was speaking.

From what I can tell just by the one meeting I'm willing to bet that Huckabee will be the candidate of choice of most people there.

They just don't know as much about Ron Paul but no one had anything negative to say about him either.