Religion

[Anti Federalist]

And this is precisely why this forum has so much conflict.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON for you to respond out of hand like this. It only perpetuates and worsens that bad blood here.

Just stop it.

Really.

Sophocoles, you honestly think that someone searching for discernment and spiritual enlightenment and writing about it a calm and reserved manner deserves a cyber barfing?

 

[LittleLightShining]

*Vomits*

Thanks for the defense, yongrel. There is a real lack of civility here at times.

Sophocles, I'm sorry what I said made you that sick. I meant you no offense, nor anyone else. I was answering the question. Have you not ever read something and just had to let it set for a bit because you didn't quite get it? Interestingly, when I have situations that come up like that when I read the Bible I often understand the passage on a few different levels. The Bible is an amazing book whether you believe it as the word of God (or believe in God) or not.

 

[yongrel]

The Bible is an amazing book whether you believe it as the word of God (or believe in God) or not.

Agreed. As an atheist who has read the Bible many times, I believe that the King James Bible is one of the finest literary works of the age. The poetry of the translations for that particular version is quite brilliant. My personal favourite quote comes from the King James:

"Man is born to trouble as sparks fly upward."

Good stuff.

 

[sophocles07]

And this is precisely why this forum has so much conflict.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON for you to respond out of hand like this. It only perpetuates and worsens that bad blood here.

Just stop it.

Shut the fuck up. I’ll respond as impulse provides.

Really.

Sophocoles, you honestly think that someone searching for discernment and spiritual enlightenment and writing about it a calm and reserved manner deserves a cyber barfing?

Let’s examine the quote:

I read the King James version and the Living Bible. If something strikes me funny I cross reference it. If I still don't get it I pray for discernment and reread it again later. If that doesn't help I figure I don't need to understand it yet. I know it doesn't sound scholarly, but that's what faith is for.

My response to this kind of religious reaction is a metaphorical VOMITING, as I don’t consider this a search for enlightenment, but an enslaving of the self for no reason whatsoever. This should, if we are really that calm, not offend anyone, as it is my actual view on the thread topic.

There is a real lack of civility here at times.

Also, I think we’re overestimating the violence of my response. It was meant as an exhausted response to the kind of mentality you manifested.

Sophocles, I'm sorry what I said made you that sick. I meant you no offense, nor anyone else. I was answering the question. Have you not ever read something and just had to let it set for a bit because you didn't quite get it? Interestingly, when I have situations that come up like that when I read the Bible I often understand the passage on a few different levels. The Bible is an amazing book whether you believe it as the word of God (or believe in God) or not.

I agree with this. My problem with what you said is that you resign yourself to the irrational through an appeal to authority (the Bible as the word of god) though it is a self-claim within the object of examination. I have absolutely no problem with interpretation of texts. I would, though, view the Bible in the same light as I view Dante’s Commedia or Shakespeare; they are all literary texts—and you don’t have to agree with Dante out of faith just because he asserts something is true; the same should be said of the Bible.

I believe that the King James Bible is one of the finest literary works of the age. The poetry of the translations for that particular version is quite brilliant.

I agree with this. Jerome’s Vulgate is my favorite version; I think in most places he improves upon the original.

And, for a reading of Whitman's poetry, you really have to understand the prosody implied by the King James translation.

 

[yongrel]

Shut the fuck up. I’ll respond as impulse provides.

And there lies the roots of the problem. Maybe you should think before you post.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Sophocles wrote:

Shut the fuck up. I’ll respond as impulse provides.

Isn't the search for truth, discernment, the upward struggle for liberty and the potential for each individual to live life at it's fullest based on, first and foremost, the ability and the necessity to control our base impulses?

 

[amy31416]

And this is precisely why this forum has so much conflict.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON for you to respond out of hand like this. It only perpetuates and worsens that bad blood here.

Just stop it.

Thanks yongrel, you beat me to it.

Sophocles, try to be respectful of fellow supporters. You're simply being arrogant.

 

[sophocles07]

And there lies the roots of the problem. Maybe you should think before you post.

Nah.

Isn't the search for truth, discernment, the upward struggle for liberty and the potential for each individual to live life at it's fullest based on, first and foremost, the ability and the necessity to control our base impulses?

To be honest, at first I had written "my mind" and then corrected it to "impulse."

Fortunate for me, this impulse is not rooted in baseness, but the desire for rational understanding of the world in all areas. If I had called him a cumbucket Trotskyist in response, that would have been base. Mine was merely mild my many malcontented muskrat whiners.

 

[Hiki]

What's up with these millions of different versions? I mean c'mon, its the holy text. Why cant you just have one literally translated version? Oh yeah, you really cant literally translate the original texts. I understand that the truly original versions were written in hebrew, and they had no vocals in it, and the text had no spaces in between words or anything, something like that they taught back in school.
So I can really imagine what mistranslations and errors the Bible must be filled with. Why do you have to bother at all with it?

 

[LittleLightShining]

I agree with this. My problem with what you said is that you resign yourself to the irrational through an appeal to authority (the Bible as the word of god) though it is a self-claim within the object of examination. I have absolutely no problem with interpretation of texts. I would, though, view the Bible in the same light as I view Dante’s Commedia or Shakespeare; they are all literary texts—and you don’t have to agree with Dante out of faith just because he asserts something is true; the same should be said of the Bible.

No, see you missed my point entirely. The Bible is the inspired word of God. When something doesn't make sense to me on first, second, twelfth reading I use my faith to seek discernment. So I'm now going above the tangible word to the Living Word for enlightenment. I do not read the Bible in the same way I would read any other literary text because to me it is much more than that. To you it isn't so I can see where you're coming from, though. I would be in a sad, sorry state if I attempted to assert anything was true simply because I read it, don't you think? It is through my seeking wisdom beyond my understanding that I find truth.

But then again, that's just me. I'm not here to evangelize or proselytize. I'm here to interact with (mostly) like-minded, thoughtful individuals.

 

[sophocles07]

No, see you missed my point entirely. The Bible is the inspired word of God. When something doesn't make sense to me on first, second, twelfth reading I use my faith to seek discernment.

No, I didn’t miss your point. This is the part that made me metaphorically vomit: that you base your life in the unproved belief that a literary text is the word of God simply because that literary text tells you it is the word of God.

I would be in a sad, sorry state if I attempted to assert anything was true simply because I read it, don't you think?

Yes. Yes you would.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Sophocoles wrote:

To be honest, at first I had written "my mind" and then corrected it to "impulse."

Fortunate for me, this impulse is not rooted in baseness, but the desire for rational understanding of the world in all areas. If I had called him a cumbucket Trotskyist in response, that would have been base. Mine was merely mild my many malcontented muskrat whiners.

Cumbucket Trotskyist? Malcontented muskrats?

That's funny...

 

[amy31416]

My response to this kind of religious reaction is a metaphorical VOMITING, as I don’t consider this a search for enlightenment, but an enslaving of the self for no reason whatsoever. This should, if we are really that calm, not offend anyone, as it is my actual view on the thread topic.

All right then, you are the judge who determines what is a search for enlightenment?

Here's some recommended reading for you, it's relatively short too: My Confessions by Tolstoy. It's the story of his journey towards spiritualism, and his distancing himself from the miseries of his elite, hyper-intellectual existence. There's a realization that no matter how much education, ya still don't know jack-shit about the purpose or lack thereof in life. Nobody does.

It's Tolstoy, so it's fantastically written. Enjoy, and open your mind.

 

[LittleLightShining]

No, I didn’t miss your point. This is the part that made me metaphorically vomit: that you base your life in the unproved belief that a literary text is the word of God simply because that literary text tells you it is the word of God.



Yes. Yes you would.

You're still missing the point. Faith is a muscle which is more difficult to exercise for some people than it is for others.

Why do you assume it is unproved? It's been proven time and again for me.

 

[sophocles07]

All right then, you are the judge who determines what is a search for enlightenment?

That's obviously my opinion, which I consider the truth.

Here's some recommended reading for you, it's relatively short too: My Confessions by Tolstoy. It's the story of his journey towards spiritualism, and his distancing himself from the miseries of his elite, hyper-intellectual existence. There's a realization that no matter how much education, ya still don't know jack-shit about the purpose or lack thereof in life. Nobody does.

I've read this, and most of Tolstoy. He also rejected Greek tragedy and Shakespeare; he's horrible in philosophy and religious areas. Literary merit is unquestionable though. I would recommend reading his philosophy only as a support for interpreting his novels and short stories.

It's Tolstoy, so it's fantastically written. Enjoy, and open your

 

[amy31416]

No, I didn’t miss your point. This is the part that made me metaphorically vomit: that you base your life in the unproved belief that a literary text is the word of God simply because that literary text tells you it is the word of God.

Help me understand why it offends you so greatly that this fellow supporter should have a belief in something that you don't?

 

[sophocles07]

You're still missing the point. Faith is a muscle which is more difficult to exercise for some people than it is for others.

Why do you assume it is unproved? It's been proven time and again for me.

Proof resides in empirical evidence; not "feelings" that something is true. The man in the insane asylum has had it "proved" in your sense 1,000 times that he is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ--usefully, this "revealed knowledge" is not knowledge at all; it is lunacy, which is also what believing the Bible is the word of God is.

 

[sophocles07]

Help me understand why it offends you so greatly that this fellow supporter should have a belief in something that you don't

I don't understand the willed delusion of the mind. Why does it repulse George Carlin? I'd venture to say he and I are close on this issue.

 

[LittleLightShining]

Sophocles, does Ron Paul make you vomit? Because he believes what I believe.

 

[amy31416]

I don't understand the willed delusion of the mind. Why does it repulse George Carlin? I'd venture to say he and I are close on this issue.

You're no George Carlin, sir. Carlin does not seek out people to go after. If Ron Paul's movement had gained a lot of people from the fundamentalist Christian group, you'd be the one on the receiving end of arrogance and summarily be dismissed. Even if this movement were associated with the bible crowd, I'd still be a part of it. I believe in the message and the Constitution. How about you?

What benefit do you gain from dictating what you think other people should believe in such hostile terms? How would you react to your beliefs being rejected so summarily by someone as arrogant as yourself?