Religion

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I'm a Deist. I believe that every organized religion is a cult. But then again, any form of collectivism, is a cult.

Anytime you have to sacrifice your individuality for the "good of the group/cause", you're in a cult. If government is not self-government (like our Founders intended), then it's a cult.

These forums even have the color of a cult. It sacrifices Liberty, the contest of Free and Open Public debate, in the name of the "good of the campaign." The secrecy of hiding 76,000+ messages in a private forum is cult-like behavior.

I can understand why some have nick-named blind Ron Paul followers as "Paulites." I've seen blind obedience to what Ron Paul has said, even though the statement was made under duress. These blind supporters (hero worshipers?) support him, even though they don't fully understand or practice the principles of Liberty themselves. In spite of that, I still appreciate that they support him. However, I wish they would work much harder at understanding Liberty, and the practice of Liberty. A few here are still obviously confused about it.

To me, Ron Paul is simply a good man, and an awesome Patriot of Liberty. He so happens to represent most, if not all, of my principles of Liberty. So I support him, as I would support any another individual who has similar values about Liberty.

To prop him up as some kind of savior, I will never do. That's cultism. Ron can't save our Country. He can help, but he can't do it alone. He's not our only hope either. Each individual can help a lot by simply knowing their Rights and the Law, and then exercising their Rights and enforcing the Law. Restoring a Free Republic is truly a grassroots effort that has to work from the "bottom" up with each individual.

As Ron Paul does, I also endorse We The People Radio Network for a great education on Liberty and restoring our Constitutional Republic.

http://www.wtprn.com/archives.html

- SL

Well, at least he spoke the truth, not the same bullshit you find in every church in this country. It's good to pursue the truth. So why are you a deist?

 

[Hiki]

Well interpreting is a difficult case for me. I mean MAN reads the text and sees it in his own way, he interprates it in his own way. So when the original text is the word of GOD, a MAN interprates it in a way which he sees as good. So how can you really know then what the real meaning of that text and God's will is? You just assume that "Oh this is the way that He meant it to be!".
In the Bible, yes he teaches good things but then again some awful things aswell. Which ones should we follow? Which ones are the true ones? Then we just cherry pick the things we see as good and say "This is God's will." Who says that? You? So you determine what is good and what is the true meaning of God? I just cant think of anything else than BULLSHIT.

 

[rpfreedom08]

Well first off the bible was said to have been writen by men inspired by the holy spirit. This is what christians believe and I'm sure you don't believe it but christians do so really it's not these people interprating it but it's the holy spirit that wrote the bible. Now as far as what do we believe and what don't we believe I think it's rather simple (now I'm talking like I'm religious however I haven't gone to church in forever so you really shouldn't listen to me, lol) christianity is all about what is right and what is wrong. At the very core of everyone we have a very basic idea of what is right and wrong.

it's wrong to:
- kill
- lie
- steal
- cheat on your wife
- pray to false gods (being materialistic)
- covet your neighbors stuff ( I mean this is one of the biggest problems with our credit problems, everyone wants to pretend like they are rich because more than likely they want to show it off ).
- judge!

I think if people interprate the bible to hate any certain person or group for the way they are it goes against what christianity teaches. God may say that we are not to do something, but if someone is doing it we are not to judge and certainly not hate. You see what I'm saying?

 

[Truth Warrior]

Does anyone else here finding it exceedingly strange, interesting and curious that the biblical Judeo-Christian God seems to have no significant problem with the concept of human slavery? Some of his children owning some of his other children. Hmmmmm!

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."

 

[Hiki]

Well first off the bible was said to have been writen by men inspired by the holy spirit. This is what christians believe and I'm sure you don't believe it but christians do so really it's not these people interprating it but it's the holy spirit that wrote the bible. Now as far as what do we believe and what don't we believe I think it's rather simple (now I'm talking like I'm religious however I haven't gone to church in forever so you really shouldn't listen to me, lol) christianity is all about what is right and what is wrong. At the very core of everyone we have a very basic idea of what is right and wrong.

it's wrong to:
- kill
- lie
- steal
- cheat on your wife
- pray to false gods (being materialistic)
- covet your neighbors stuff ( I mean this is one of the biggest problems with our credit problems, everyone wants to pretend like they are rich because more than likely they want to show it off ).
- judge!

I think if people interprate the bible to hate any certain person or group for the way they are it goes against what christianity teaches. God may say that we are not to do something, but if someone is doing it we are not to judge and certainly not hate. You see what I'm saying?
Reply With Quote

Yeah I see and that's great. Those basic christian values are good but they ain't copyrighted christian. Numerous religions have those values, buddhism, islam and many others. And why does one need religion to give them a moral compass? I'm sure that everyone knows not to kill, lie (well of course at some points its reasonable to lie), steal or be dishonest. And isn't it everybodys own decision what they "worship"? If someone want to be materialistic and cling to money then go ahead, be my guest. And covet your neighbors good? That's what keeps the economy going, of course you shouldn't take it to a big level but every once in a while you see that your neighbour has something cool and you want that too, its perfectly fine.
I think that the song Faithless by Rush pictures my position on these things.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rCz0-HY1TLU When it comes to the ten commandments which you listed, Carlin nails it.

 

[rpfreedom08]

I've heard all the Carlin stuff and while I do think he hits the nail on the head with politics and the way things are I think he is very wrong on his religious standpoint. I do not believe in keeping up with the jones' as that is just another form of collectivism that I try to stay away from. I also don't buy things just because they are a commercial either and I'm sure if this society banked off of me being the typical person that covets his neigbors crap and buys what he sees on tv. then yeah probably we wouldn't be a consumer nation.... Is that all that bad???

 

[SeekLiberty]

Well, at least he spoke the truth, not the same bullshit you find in every church in this country. It's good to pursue the truth. So why are you a deist?

I don't trust man's translation of the Bible, or man's interpretation of ancient history. I believe that "Intelligent Design" gave us all the faculty we need to live righteously, our reason. A book that some atheists may find interesting is "The Case for God."

- SL

 

[Truth Warrior]

I've heard all the Carlin stuff and while I do think he hits the nail on the head with politics and the way things are I think he is very wrong on his religious standpoint. I do not believe in keeping up with the jones' as that is just another form of collectivism that I try to stay away from. I also don't buy things just because they are a commercial either and I'm sure if this society banked off of me being the typical person that covets his neigbors crap and buys what he sees on tv. then yeah probably we wouldn't be a consumer nation.... Is that all that bad???

It is when 2/3 of the economy is consumer spending dependent.<IMHO>

 

[icon124]

To the people out there that read the bible...what bible exactly are you reading? And why have you chosen that? What makes you think it isn't just made up propaganda? Just curious because I want to read something...but something good not full of propaganda (if that even exists lol)

 

[Kade]

I don't trust man's translation of the Bible, or man's interpretation of ancient history. I believe that "Intelligent Design" gave us all the faculty we need to live righteously, our reason. A book that some atheists may find interesting is "The Case for God."

- SL

Williams or Collins?

I feed myself with anything, anything to convince me that I might be wrong, I hate to think that so many people are so heavily deluded, but I have no other conclusion.

 

[Kregener]

"Religion" is man-made, and indeed, is pretty awful...until you hold it up against godless atheism, then it is somewhat....better.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

"Religion" is man-made, and indeed, is pretty awful...until you hold it up against godless atheism, then it is somewhat....better.

Religion is better than "godless atheism"?

 

[yongrel]

godless atheism

thank you, Captain Redundancy Captain!

 

[Truth Warrior]

Religion is better than "godless atheism"?

Ah the good old comparative advantage, lesser of two evils, sellout and cop out rears it's ugly head yet once again. Where have I seen that one before? Isn't that really a very significant contributing factor to how we keep on getting ourselves into all of these messes?

False dichotomy.<IMHO>

 

[DeadtoSin]

I'm a Christian and I hate when people try to tell me lies and sell me on stuff that isn't true. I haven't been a Christian but for a few years. Perhaps it is simply my area, but the people I meet at church are typically genuine Christians. The American church is in a sad state of affairs. If the American Church were like the persecuted church in China, or the churches I visited in Zimbabwe then I think that you guys would be less apt to consider it a cult. I'm sad for how the American church has acted, and I apologize.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17057952@N08/1812053477/

Here is me in Zimbabwe. A good portion of our time was spent there playing with the kids and having fun with them. If I didn't believe in a God who loved me and would take care of me, I'd have never gone to Zimbabwe. Those kids were so happy to have some people to visit them and talk to them.

I've encountered people who live out true and genuine Christianity, and they made a great impression on me.

 

[LittleLightShining]

To the people out there that read the bible...what bible exactly are you reading? And why have you chosen that? What makes you think it isn't just made up propaganda? Just curious because I want to read something...but something good not full of propaganda (if that even exists lol)

I read the King James version and the Living Bible. If something strikes me funny I cross reference it. If I still don't get it I pray for discernment and reread it again later. If that doesn't help I figure I don't need to understand it yet. I know it doesn't sound scholarly, but that's what faith is for.

 

[sophocles07]

Look, what god taught and how people interprate those teachings are two completely differant things. I know that God spoke out against sodomy and sexual perversion but that's only because he understood where it would bring us as a civilization....Where we are today..

So I am to assume from this you believe sodomy and sexual perversion a cause of degeneration in society?

It's so strange to read the phrase "what god taught"; it has a strange, grandfather-animism aspect to it.

 

[sophocles07]

I read the King James version and the Living Bible. If something strikes me funny I cross reference it. If I still don't get it I pray for discernment and reread it again later. If that doesn't help I figure I don't need to understand it yet. I know it doesn't sound scholarly, but that's what faith is for.

*Vomits*

 

[yongrel]

*Vomits*

And this is precisely why this forum has so much conflict.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON for you to respond out of hand like this. It only perpetuates and worsens that bad blood here.

Just stop it.

 

[Dr.3D]

To the people out there that read the bible...what bible exactly are you reading? And why have you chosen that? What makes you think it isn't just made up propaganda? Just curious because I want to read something...but something good not full of propaganda (if that even exists lol)

All of the translations are pretty good but some offer different interpretations of the words. The only way to get the real meaning is to read the original Hebrew and Greek texts. Since most of us don't have the ability to read those, it is best to select several versions and when in doubt as to what one is saying, read the same chapter and verse from anther. I presently use the following versions for my studies.

The Complete Jewish Bible.
The King James Version.
The New American Standard Bible.
The New International Version.
The New Jerusalem Bible.
The New King James Version.
The New Revised Standard Version.
Young's Literal Translation.

And since the King James version was translated from the Latin Vulgate version and I can read Latin, I will resort to reading from it if I have further questions.

Basically, you don't need to worry very much about which version you read as they all pretty much contain the same message. There may be slight differences in how the wording is translated but not so much as to make a lot of difference, unless you are trying to write a paper for some class where they want some special determination about the translation of a passage.

I will tend to just read the New International Version if just looking up a passage.