Rand's Statement on Situation in Ukraine

[KingNothing]

I'm pretty sure you are a government agent.

And I don't mean cliched FBI or NSA allegations. I mean you draw your paycheck from the government. You are probably a CPS worker, or you clean the parks. At best, you shuffle papers in an air conditioned Jobs and Family Services building, hoping the dollar stretches for another week.

How close am I, .gov?

Right. You got me.

I'm an engineer.

What do you do for a living? Something that a stupid person can do, I assume?

 

[specsaregood]

What has John McCain been seeking for at least 20 years? How about a NATO member on Russia's border...a place where we can then put some big weapons.

http://news.yahoo.com/nato-ambassadors-discuss-ukraine-sunday-natos-rasmussen-212751008.html

So let's just suggest that Putin and Obama agreed beforehand: US foments revolution in the Ukraine with the end result of it breaking up into 2 pieces: Russia gets the eastern half full of ethnic russians and control of crimea. The US gets to admit the western Ukraine into NATO without Russia objecting much. Russia gets official control of an important piece of real estate for controlling the black sea and gets to readmit millions of Russians into the mother country (something he's been talking about recently to increase their population). And the ukrainians are just the little pawns being traded about. sound about right?

 

[jtstellar]

Not his business to condemn. He is doing w.e good politicians is expected to do that is tow the line.

so now not only are we not to intervene, but if some atrocity occurs somewhere around the world a senator can't even talk about it, i don't remember ron exactly preaching this. like i said, 'stuck thinking whatever rand says is negative', i guess some of what the gop voters were worried about in 08 and 12 are coming true. are you guys stuck on the same boomer path from eating too much shit food and 5 dollar meals? you are turning fast and weird in your own unique way, but on the same speed, with different velocity, and faster.

 

[Mini-Me]

So let's just suggest that Putin and Obama agreed beforehand: US foments revolution in the Ukraine with the end result of it breaking up into 2 pieces: Russia gets the eastern half full of ethnic russians and control of crimea. The US gets to admit the western Ukraine into NATO without Russia objecting much. Russia gets official control of an important piece of real estate for controlling the black sea and gets to readmit millions of Russians into the mother country (something he's been talking about recently to increase their population). And the ukrainians are just the little pawns being traded about. sound about right?

The problem with this interpretation is it ignores Russia's primary interest in Ukraine: Oil pipelines not ultimately controlled by the US. Why does that matter? They want to replace the petrodollar with an emerging BRIC currency, and the US wants to protect the petrodollar. Viewed from a currency perspective, it's really a zero-sum game here between the two governments, and I can't imagine why the minor benefits you're talking about in this scenario would outweigh the BRIC need to introduce a new reserve currency and the US need to maintain the petrodollar (the biggest driving force between every single foreign entanglement we get involved in).

 

[libertarian101]

Neocon Jenifer Rubin probably wrote these for Rand Paul, she is his boss. Ron statement is on the money as usual of course. I’m sure Ron is ashamed of Rand.

 

[Mini-Me]

Neocon Jenifer Rubin probably wrote these for Rand Paul, she is his boss. Ron statement is on the money as usual of course. I’m sure Ron is ashamed of Rand.

People always say things like "I'm sure Ron is ashamed of Rand," but Ron has spoken on the matter and mentioned how disappointed he is that people keep trying to drive wedges between him and his son over matters of rhetoric. Reread what Rand actually said: He's advising Russia to take a noninterventionist foreign policy and warning primarily of the inevitable drawbacks of intervention (that it's disruptive, costly, falls on its face, and invites blowback and ill will)...from experience. It's more clever than you think, and it's a bit like when Putin made an ironic warning to Washington about the dangers of too much central planning.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Topic sentence is all I needed.

And the general sentiment confirmed your already-biased opinion, is that it?

 

[Crashland]

Where did Rand suggest that the United States intervene in the Ukraine situation? Like economic sanctions, or military action? I still haven't found it. Don't read into his statement things that aren't there just because you see a couple phrases like 'interconnected world' or 'US plays a vital role in the stability of the world'. Don't be spooked just because you think he means something more than that.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Considering I advocate a more humble and a constitutional foreign policy, and our actual leaders have never really done that, and we've STILL never been invaded, I kind of disagree with you.

Being the strongest economy on Earth, with the greatest air force, the greatest navy, and the greatest army on earth, kind of precludes anyone from invading us. It just can't happen. A disorganized militia system, with no standing army, would be an easy target for an imperialist power.

There is nothing remotely "humble" about what you advocate since you admitted that if Russia didn't back down in your scenario, you would advocate for the use of military force against them.

And if you want to maintain this supposed "strong" economy, you don't steal money and give it to the MIC. Ted Cruz, is that you?

 

[Brett85]

Where did Rand suggest that the United States intervene in the Ukraine situation? Like economic sanctions, or military action? I still haven't found it. Don't read into his statement things that aren't there just because you see a couple phrases like 'interconnected world' or 'US plays a vital role in the stability of the world'. Don't be spooked just because you think he means something more than that.

Yep.

 

[libertarian101]

People always say things like "I'm sure Ron is ashamed of Rand," but Ron has spoken on the matter and mentioned how disappointed he is that people keep trying to drive wedges between him and his son over matters of rhetoric. Reread what Rand actually said: He's advising Russia to take a noninterventionist foreign policy and warning primarily of the inevitable drawbacks of intervention (that it's disruptive, costly, falls on its face, and invites blowback and ill will)...from experience. It's more clever than you think, and it's a bit like when Putin made an ironic warning to Washington about the dangers of too much central planning.

Nope, Rand were singing different tune and being rational until Rubin criticized him a few days ago and he folded like a pancake. Most of the time , he either bends for her will or write her a letter when ever she criticize him. He must think she has some kind of magical power that will make president though she always gets murdered in the comment section. (and most of the people who comment on Rubin's article has better understand of foreign policy than blind Rand followers here). Anyways Rand is Rubin bit** i’m afraid.

 

[Brett85]

Nope, Rand were singing different tune and being rational until Rubin criticized him a few days ago and he folded like a pancake. He either bends for her will or write her a letter most the time she criticize him. He must think she has some kind of magical power that will make president though she always gets murdered in the comment section. Rand is Rubin bit** i’m afraid.

I think people just misunderstood what Rand was saying a few days ago. He wasn't saying that we should never criticize Russia at all. He even said that we should criticize them when they commit human rights violations. He was only saying that we shouldn't do things to try to provoke them, such as trying to make Ukraine a member of NATO.

 

[specsaregood]

The problem with this interpretation is it ignores Russia's primary interest in Ukraine: Oil pipelines not ultimately controlled by the US. Why does that matter? They want to replace the petrodollar with an emerging BRIC currency, and the US wants to protect the petrodollar. Viewed from a currency perspective, it's really a zero-sum game here between the two governments, and I can't imagine why the minor benefits you're talking about in this scenario would outweigh the BRIC need to introduce a new reserve currency and the US need to maintain the petrodollar (the biggest driving force between every single foreign entanglement we get involved in).

There could certainly be more to it. But if this was all previously agreed to by the US and Russia; it would also explain how Russia got those recordings of US diplomats discussing who to make the leader of the new Ukraine.

 

[libertarian101]

I think people just misunderstood what Rand was saying a few days ago. He wasn't saying that we should never criticize Russia at all. He even said that we should criticize them when they commit human rights violations. He was only saying that we shouldn't do things to try to provoke them, such as trying to make Ukraine a member of NATO.

Rand should have wrote balanced statement like Ron, rather than sounding like war monger McCain. The shameful part is even the neocon warmongers don't care about Ukraine and are not looking to have a nuke battle with Russia, they are only pressuring Russia so that they hand back Edward Snowden when his visa run out and for Russia to let them make war with Syria ( which Rand kept dead silent about the issue for 3 whole days just before war were about to start and were willing to let it happen with out saying nothing until 53 republican lawmakers wrote a letter to Obama demanding authority for the war which Rand jump on the bandwagon after ) . it's sad that Rand is so desperately seeking to become president for personal glory , he's willing to sale his soul to the devil.

 

[Mini-Me]

Rand should have wrote balanced statement like Ron, rather than sounding like war monger McCain. The shameful part is even the neocon warmongers don't care about Ukraine and are not looking to have a nuke battle with Russia, they are only pressuring Russia so that they hand back Edward Snowden when his visa run out and for Russia to let them make war with Syria ( which Rand kept dead silent about the issue for 3 whole days just before war were about to start and were willing to let it happen with out saying nothing until 53 republican lawmakers wrote a letter to Obama demanding authority for the war which Rand jump on the bandwagon after ) . it's sad that Rand is so desperately seeking to become president for personal glory , he's willing to sale his soul to the devil.

Rand walks a tightrope with his rhetoric: He tells the truth, but he says it in a way that subtly sways conservative voters over to noninterventionism instead of hitting them upside the head with it like Ron and alienating them. Ron's rhetoric appealed to us, because we're ready for it...and Rand's rhetoric is tailored toward bridging the enormous chasm between Ron and the people who rejected his message in 2008 and 2012, so that they'll finally inch close enough to become receptive to it. He's been doing this for a long time, so expecting anything else of him is silly.

In the meantime, his voting record has been excellent with a few ultimately inconsequential exceptions (like Iran sanctions from way back when), and it is through this and the deeper meaning of his words that he demonstrates what he's really about. Just because he's more rhetorically subtle than Ron for the benefit of conservatives' sensibilities does not mean he's out for "personal glory" and "Rubin's bitch" and "[selling] his soul to the devil." He's fighting the same fight with different weapons, as he has since he started. His job is not to be our ideological champion/torchbearer like Ron is; his job is to undermine neocon influence, bring grassroots conservatives within Ron's "striking distance," and get into the position to put the brakes on the insanity and thereby tangibly improve the state of human liberty in the real world. If/when the US attempts to wage war with Russia and Rand speaks out against it, will you admit you were mistaken about his motives?

 

[Mini-Me]

There could certainly be more to it. But if this was all previously agreed to by the US and Russia; it would also explain how Russia got those recordings of US diplomats discussing who to make the leader of the new Ukraine.

That's one explanation for the diplomatic recordings, but there are others as well: For instance, our paranoid NSA spends countless billions spying on everyone, but Russian intelligence would make spying on US diplomats and policy-makers their number one priority above all else, and it would only take resources within their means to accomplish. If they have any respectable capabilities at all, they're bound to intercept some important communications and manage some man-in-the-middle attacks among other things, especially when it comes to diplomats who aren't technically savvy enough to remember best practices 100% of the time. If they didn't, we'd probably hear something from time to time about Putin personally brutalizing Russian intelligence officers with his fists for never achieving any results. (Kidding about the last part, since they'd just disappear off the face of the Earth, but... )

 

[jtstellar]

i think rand haters should just focus on their career as things are, given their intelligence i think they should just focus on how to feed themselves first and foremost

 

[silverhandorder]

i think rand haters should just focus on their career as things are, given their intelligence i think they should just focus on how to feed themselves first and foremost

I like the guy. I do still think that he is towing the line.

 

[philipped]

No, but he wins elections. At this point I am prepared to grit my teeth and assume everything and anything he says that I disagree with is just him positioning himself to win another election.

I will base my opinions on his actual votes, and not the carefully crafted rhetoric that he submits to the general public.

This is a fair thing to do, but I'm a little weirded out by these statements. But the person who posted that they are similar seems to be on to something.

 

[Brett85]

Rand should have wrote balanced statement like Ron, rather than sounding like war monger McCain. The shameful part is even the neocon warmongers don't care about Ukraine and are not looking to have a nuke battle with Russia, they are only pressuring Russia so that they hand back Edward Snowden when his visa run out and for Russia to let them make war with Syria ( which Rand kept dead silent about the issue for 3 whole days just before war were about to start and were willing to let it happen with out saying nothing until 53 republican lawmakers wrote a letter to Obama demanding authority for the war which Rand jump on the bandwagon after ) . it's sad that Rand is so desperately seeking to become president for personal glory , he's willing to sale his soul to the devil.

Like war monger McCain??? What a joke. Rand never advocated any kind of intervention at all in his statement.