Rand Paul to Obama: "Prioritize" Passage of Trans-Pacific Partnership

[presence]

How a WTO challenge of a U.S. state or federal law works:

The other 152 WTO signatory countries are empowered to challenge nonconforming federal and state policies as a violation of the international trade agreement before trade tribunals in a binding dispute resolution system.

State government officials have no standing before these tribunals and thus must rely on federal officials to defend a challenged policy.

The tribunals are staffed by trade officials who are empowered to judge if state policy violates WTO requirements.

Policies judged to violate the rules must be changed, or trade sanctions can be imposed.

The federal government is obliged to use all constitutionally available powers – for instance preemptive legislation, lawsuits and cutting off funding – to force state and local governments
to comply with trade tribunal rulings.

http://www.citizen.org/documents/sovereigntyfactsheet09.pdf

 

[presence]

 

[presence]

Indonesia has just announced that it is terminating over 60 bi-lateral trade agreements due to its concerns about ISDS clauses in those agreements.

 

[Brett85]

Yeah, this isn't cookie cutter stuff where we can just tell you what you want to hear and send you on yer way, tc. This is big boy stuff. Global consequences. Domestic too but you get the idea.

I would think he could at least explain in detail why he supports the TPP agreement.

 

[jjdoyle]

I would think he could at least explain in detail why he supports the TPP agreement.

He can't explain in detail voting on giving Israel several hundred million dollars in foreign aid, the only thing he could say that is honest is, "I'm pandering for votes in 2016, and trying to ward off attacks I know are coming."

I would expect the same response here. So much for being such a great constitutional orator.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I would think he could at least explain in detail why he supports the TPP agreement.

Yep. How much attention to detail any given explanation would contain is the question, TC. Those are dangerous waters to tread. No? Folks who are asking for an explanation about this particular thing aren't your average mundanes. Foreign Policy is a big deal for most folks who are active these days and those folks have a rather firm grasp. Of course, there are domestic repercussions which we've mentioned minimally. And so that is what it is and I'll leave it at that.

If it's worth anything, I'm rooting for him. Let's hear it.

 

[Brett85]

He can't explain in detail voting on giving Israel several hundred million dollars in foreign aid, the only thing he could say that is honest is, "I'm pandering for votes in 2016, and trying to ward off attacks I know are coming."

I would expect the same response here. So much for being such a great constitutional orator.

I think he's explained that. He's explained that the position he's taken is that we should give out foreign aid to Israel as long as we're giving out aid to Israel's enemies. He doesn't want to cut off aid to Israel before we cut off aid to Israel's enemies. He's said that we should cut off aid to Israel's enemies and countries that are hostile to us first, and then eventually phase out foreign aid to Israel as well. Even his position that we should eventually phase out foreign aid to Israel is going to be seen as controversial and will be used against him in the GOP primary.

 

[presence]

no investment treaty allows other parties who have an interest in the dispute,
other than the claimant investor and respondent government,
to obtain standing in the adjudicative process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement

Currently, the legal protection of Foreign Direct Investment under public international law is guaranteed by a network of more than 2750 bilateral investment treaties (BITs), Multilateral Investment Treaties, most notably the Energy Charter Treaty and number of Free Trade Agreements such as NAFTA containing a chapter on investment protection. Most of these treaties were signed by states in the late 1980s and early 1990s, before the current explosion of investor claims under the treaties began in the last 1990s.


The majority of these legal instruments provides foreign investors with a substantive legal protection (including the right to "fair and equitable treatment", "full protection and security", "free transfer of means" and the right not be directly or indirectly expropriated without full compensation) and access to ISDS for redress against Host States for breaches of such protection.

The "old fashioned" sovereign way?

Under customary international law

a state can vindicate injury caused to its nation by the host state by exercising diplomatic protection,

which may include retorsion and/or reprisals.

consular action, negotiations with the other State, political and economic pressure, judicial or arbitral proceedings or other forms of

peaceful dispute settlement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_protection

 

[jjdoyle]

I think he's explained that. He's explained that the position he's taken is that we should give out foreign aid to Israel as long as we're giving out aid to Israel's enemies. He doesn't want to cut off aid to Israel before we cut off aid to Israel's enemies. He's said that we should cut off aid to Israel's enemies and countries that are hostile to us first, and then eventually phase out foreign aid to Israel as well. Even his position that we should eventually phase out foreign aid to Israel is going to be seen as controversial and will be used against him in the GOP primary.

Rand is for continuing to make us less safe, by continuing to give foreign aid to a country that doesn't need it, and possibly even knew about us being attacked on 9/11 and kept it to themselves. It's a stupid position, and completely inexplicable to someone from a logical and reasonable position.
And let's not forget the fact that Israel was (and probably IS) spying on us.

I would say Israel views us as hostile, why else didn't they warn us about 9/11 and why were they spying on us? Israel should be at the top of the list as far as I can see to be defunded. Rand's positions on this are garbage, and not constitutional, and even much less conservative.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I would expect the same response here

I don't think so. We're dealing with an entirely different demographic here. Historically we like to place all of our eggs in one basket and refer to that basket as the base in whole in the grassroots movement and then we model our memes conforming to our perception of said base. That's no longer the case when we get into something like this. There is a HUGE libertarian leaning demographic out there to be had who have relatively firm grasp on how the world is working at the moment and, really, I just don't think they know it. Seems like they just assume everyone is uninformed and reside in that basket with the other egges. Uh-uh. Nope. Not true. But we continue to get the "focus on the black vote", "focus on the Hispanic vote", focus on this cookie cutter issue or that one model in a way that stimulates a usual or generic political response from our representatives. Have to pay attention to trends. It's important. Especially along the lines of media viewership. People are turning off legacy/corporate media and questioning more elsewhere. So there is a different model trending hard and heavy. It's real. It exists. As well, they'll be the folks who just show up to vote. No debating the issue(s) on social networks or tweeting memes or any of that pablum. And it's a dangerous phenomenon for both establishment parties given the fact that they both want to ram this thing through. Even though, technically, I believe that it's impossible given the geo-political state of affairs at the moment.

 

[idiom]

Why is America basically the only country that consumes High Fructose Corn Syrup? Because "free" trade has made sugar insanely expensive.

There are like 4 states you are not allowed to buy a Tesla in due to state protectionism of dealers.

Americans wouldn't know freedom if it bit them in their red white and blue.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

Acptulsa riffs: After all, those with money don't care what happens to the value of that money, because they can afford to pay brokerage fees to buy stocks, and they can afford to pay the brokerage fees to convert those stocks to bonds and/or gold when the time is right. If they do care about the value of that money, they generally want it to get devalued, as you said in your second paragraph, so the wages they pay are degraded. And there's nothing more 'stoooooooooooid' than denying that their favorite way to create those 'monetary slaves' is to debase the currency in which they are paid.



(lol! ...maybe he ^^^studied at the Aqua-Buddha School of Socio-Economics! I was merely trying to point out the fact that when most people possess/control some key 'commodity,' etc., they tend to want to limit the supply...for example, do you think people who possess law degrees/BAR approval or medical licenses want more or less new people acquiring said occupational licenses?...do you think people who possess an apple orchard want more or less new apple orchards/owners springing up?...now again, do you think people who possess lots of money TEND to want more or less new money created?..)

"If you don't know what the difference is between wealth and money, I've got good news and bad news for you. The good news is you've found the right place to get educated. The bad news is you've found the wrong place to lord your allegedly great knowledge and wisdom over the unwashed masses."



"Wealth" is another squishy, subjective Republicrat term...like 'value,' etc..What isn't squishy and subjective is the hideous reality of money creation and issuance here in Republicratville...and unfortunately I sense you are yet another in a looooooooooong line who can't even honestly describe/answer basics such as, "What is it we use as money?" How is it created and destroyed? etc..In other words, you yack about illion-'dollar' economic issues absent an honest understanding of the origin and nature of even one 'dollar.' Don't you think?

 

[H. E. Panqui]

Traditional Conservative Rands: A day after I called, Rand's office put out a statement clarifying what Rand said in the CNN interview and his position on abortion.


(Oh goody, finally i can get an answer...Somewhat precisely, what abortion laws does he want enacted and what does he want for penalties for violation of his laws?)

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Why is America basically the only country that consumes High Fructose Corn Syrup? Because "free" trade has made sugar insanely expensive.

There are like 4 states you are not allowed to buy a Tesla in due to state protectionism of dealers.

Americans wouldn't know freedom if it bit them in their red white and blue.

I use Muscovado and Turbadino in my coffee and wouldn't touch corn syrup if you paid me. Well, unless they use any of it making old Kentucky Bourbon. For that I would make an exception.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Originally Posted by H. E. Panqui

Traditional Conservative Rands:A day after I called, Rand's office put out a statement clarifying what Rand said in the CNN interview and his position on abortion.

(Oh goody, finally i can get an answer...Somewhat precisely, what abortion laws does he want enacted and what does he want for penalties for violation of his laws?)

Acptulsa riffs: After all, those with money don't care what happens to the value of that money, because they can afford to pay brokerage fees to buy stocks, and they can afford to pay the brokerage fees to convert those stocks to bonds and/or gold when the time is right. If they do care about the value of that money, they generally want it to get devalued, as you said in your second paragraph, so the wages they pay are degraded. And there's nothing more 'stoooooooooooid' than denying that their favorite way to create those 'monetary slaves' is to debase the currency in which they are paid.



(lol! ...maybe he ^^^studied at the Aqua-Buddha School of Socio-Economics! I was merely trying to point out the fact that when most people possess/control some key 'commodity,' etc., they tend to want to limit the supply...for example, do you think people who possess law degrees/BAR approval or medical licenses want more or less new people acquiring said occupational licenses?...do you think people who possess an apple orchard want more or less new apple orchards/owners springing up?...now again, do you think people who possess lots of money TEND to want more or less new money created?..)

"If you don't know what the difference is between wealth and money, I've got good news and bad news for you. The good news is you've found the right place to get educated. The bad news is you've found the wrong place to lord your allegedly great knowledge and wisdom over the unwashed masses."



"Wealth" is another squishy, subjective Republicrat term...like 'value,' etc..What isn't squishy and subjective is the hideous reality of money creation and issuance here in Republicratville...and unfortunately I sense you are yet another in a looooooooooong line who can't even honestly describe/answer basics such as, "What is it we use as money?" How is it created and destroyed? etc..In other words, you yack about illion-'dollar' economic issues absent an honest understanding of the origin and nature of even one 'dollar.' Don't you think?

This stuff is really off topic. And the crap of it is that once we insert cookie cutter stuff into this discussion we stimulate responses that turn into sticks and stones and that further stimulate less meaningful dialogue which then buries the subject at hand. It disrupts the terms of controversy. And then it gets moved to Hot Topics. So....stop it, please.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

This stuff is really off topic.



I was merely responding to some poorly-thought-out assertions...sorry if it causes you any distress..

But, in reality, most/all political issues, SURELY including this one, revolve around 'money'...and i believe the reality is that VERY VERY VERY few, if any, Rand Paul supporters, or any other Republicrats here, have any honest understandings as to even the basics of 'their' stinking rotten money system...the rottenness/insanity of 'our' money system trumps/supercedes all issues 'economic'...it seems to me talking about these other relatively trivial economic issues when your unit of account has been debauched is really really stoooooooooooooooooooooooooopid...you 'flail at the leaves of the tree of evil, never striking the root$'...

 

[GunnyFreedom]

This stuff is really off topic.



I was merely responding to some poorly-thought-out assertions...sorry if it causes you any distress..

But, in reality, most/all political issues, SURELY including this one, revolve around 'money'...and i believe the reality is that VERY VERY VERY few, if any, Rand Paul supporters, or any other Republicrats here, have any honest understandings as to even the basics of 'their' stinking rotten money system...the rottenness/insanity of 'our' money system trumps/supercedes all issues 'economic'...it seems to me talking about these other relatively trivial economic issues when your unit of account has been debauched is really really stoooooooooooooooooooooooooopid...you 'flail at the leaves of the tree of evil, never striking the root$'...

Pretty sure the folks here understand monetary policy and the current problems with the Federal Reserve. If anybody in the uiverse understands it, it's the people on these forums. You may be barking up a tree frog that turns out to be just gas.

 

[devil21]

Obama is on a TPP promotion trip right now. NBC News pieces on the trip tonite all called him "Mr. Obama" instead of President.....

 

[H. E. Panqui]

GUNNYFREEDOM, I took the liberty of using your last comment to me over at my exciting new thread, "Exposing Republicrat Monetary Ignorance...."..I laid out a simple challenge there...thank-you for encouraging focused debate...

 

[limequat]

I'm getting a little tired of the way this forum is ready to crucify Rand after every little soundbite. Dude's in campaign mode. He's gonna say some repulsive things. He even gonna DO some repulsive things.
This I know: Rand has been working in the liberty movement since I've been in diapers. I know he's the real deal because I've seen his videos when he was campaigning for Ron. I know he's the real deal because the Establishment came out HARD against him in his senate race. I know he's the real deal because he almost made the DOE cry over low flow toilets. I know he's the real deal because he came out swinging against some big names like Janet Yellen, David Barron, and John Brennan.
Rand Paul is the Christ of politics. He's doing the work that is so disgusting and filthy, that none of us will do it. It's going to take some lying, some cheating, and all around nastiness - while we sit behind our keyboards and act pious.
Rand Paul sold out the liberty movement? Christ on a cracker, Rand *IS* the liberty movement. He is our Trojan horse. If anybody wants to try the direct method talk to Ron Paul and see how that works out.