Rand Paul to GOP: Our voter ID push is “offending people”

[PowerOfLiberty]

The original article has been modified slightly:




nytimes.com/2014/05/10/us/politics/paul-says-gop-push-on-voting-laws-is-alienating-blacks.html?hpw&rref=us&_r=0

Thank you. There has been so much selective quoting going around concerning this.

 

[William R]

Frankly Rand, I'm offended people don't have to show a photo ID to vote.

Go to any conservative webzine and Rand is being destroyed over this. Bad enough that he supports amnesty when the unemployment rate for blacks 18-29 is 30 percent. Hispanics of the same age range 20 percent. Now this notion that having an ID is offensive is absurd.

Rand has gone off the deep end. He should run for reelection in Kentucky and think about 2020 because the base is going to reject him.

 

[Brett85]

Frankly Rand, I'm offended people don't have to show a photo ID to vote.

Go to any conservative webzine and Rand is being destroyed over this. Bad enough that he supports amnesty when the unemployment rate for blacks 18-29 is 30 percent. Hispanics of the same age range 20 percent. Now this notion that having an ID is offensive is absurd.

Rand has gone off the deep end. He should run for reelection in Kentucky and think about 2020 because the base is going to reject him.

I can understand the need to take a little bit softer position on immigration, since a path to legalization or citizenship is actually a popular position in the polls. But criticizing voter ID laws is simply absurd when these laws are supported by over 80% of the American people. The GOP would be giving up an issue that really benefits them if they dropped the voter I.D push. I think I've even seen polls that show that even about 50% of blacks support voter I.D laws.

 

[William R]

I can understand the need to take a little bit softer position on immigration, since a path to legalization or citizenship is actually a popular position in the polls. But criticizing voter ID laws is simply absurd when these laws are supported by over 80% of the American people. The GOP would be giving up an issue that really benefits them if they dropped the voter I.D push. I think I've even seen polls that show that even about 50% of blacks support voter I.D laws.

The polls are not soft on immigration. It all depends on how you ask the question.

Enforce current immigration laws on the books or pass amnesty

75-25 for enforce laws on the books.

 

[erowe1]

The polls are not soft on immigration. It all depends on how you ask the question.

Enforce current immigration laws on the books or pass amnesty

75-25 for enforce laws on the books.

Until you tell them what the laws on the books are. Then they're against them.

 

[William R]

Until you tell them what the laws on the books are. Then they're against them.

If you explain it right it would be a huge winner. This is such a no brainer for any Republican wanting to expand the party. It is called economic populism. 30 percent of black men between 18-29 out of work, wages stagnant for the bottom 50 percent of the country because year after year we've been flooding the labor market with poor unskilled people. A smart politician would say we don't need to raise the minimum wage we need a tight labor market. A savvy Republican would say, the elites in both parties don't care about working class Americans. They're more interested in votes and cheap labor at the expense of those that are working 2, 3 jobs just to make ends meet.

And you really don't even need to deport them. A few well timed raids on construction sites and huge corporate farms and they'll start self deporting.

 

[AuH20]

Everyone knows the D's are huge cheats and scam artists...

This outreach tour is really screwing with his mind...Why is he falling for their bullshit?

Why the babying from Rand? I thought liberty had no color restrictions? You provide ID for the most mundane tasks to prove who you are. How is voting any different? There isn't any nefarious scheme at work unless the detractors want retina scans? Would that solve the problem? Since paper IDs are so 'oppressive' let's move to retina scans. LOL

 

[AuH20]

Except, Gunny posted you the data you SUPPOSEDLY wanted, and you got steamrolled by it. Now you're trying to spin this, because Rand created and issue where there didn't need to be one. If politics is messaging, Rand failed on this one. It's almost like he's surrounding himself with the same people (losers, IMO) that were around Ron, that ended up getting fewer votes than Rick Santorum with more money. Talk about HORRID messaging on the national front. Then again, Ron Paul 2012 wasn't concerned with actually winning, only with helping Mitt Romney seal the nomination. That's my opinion, based on facts/history, and you have nothing to show me otherwise.

I also sometimes forget you were the one around here trying to defend Congressman Moran's statement about Senators/Congressmen not making enough money, and needing a pay raise, and then getting steamrolled with facts in that thread as well.

LOL! You think Senators and Congressmen don't make enough money.

So, as Gunny showed you with DATA, this is a losing issue for Rand. He created it himself, nobody else.



Well, he's already got that one in the bag. Does he need more? I don't think so. If anything, he should be speaking about foreign policy all day long, and a "jobs/jobs/jobs" plan. We already know foreign policy is (and will be) the Achilles heel of the campaign, so I don't see the point of bringing something like this up, that has very few, if any, positives.

Then again, I'm not one of the Ron Paul 2012 campaign experts probably giving advice like this. I haven't had the opportunity yet to waste nearly $40 million dollars, get fewer votes than Rick Santorum, all before throwing supporters under the Mitt Romney bus, so I don't know what I'm really talking about.

I prefer winning strategies, probably like you, not simply fundraising strategies like some (not you) around here.

He's trying to be everything to everyone and failing marvelously in that regard.

 

[phill4paul]

Are you asking me to give you pancakes when I present an argument in order to get you to consider my point?

Pancakes are good but only with real maple syrup. If bacon is on the side I will really listen attentively.

Just a little levity...moving on. And suddenly hungry for pancakes and bacon..............

 

[erowe1]

And you really don't even need to deport them. A few well timed raids on construction sites and huge corporate farms and they'll start self deporting.

The federal government has no right to do that. And I don't see any political benefit for anyone coming out in favor of it, especially Rand. In fact, what Rand really ought to do is come out in favor of a law repealing the requirement that employers provide the government with its employees' social security numbers, or any other information about them.

But you're right that that's the kind of thing that they would need to do to curb illegal immigration, and what enforcing the laws that are already on the books would involve.

 

[William R]

The federal government has no right to do that. And I don't see any political benefit for anyone coming out in favor of it, especially Rand. In fact, what Rand really ought to do is come out in favor of a law repealing the requirement that employers provide the government with its employees' social security numbers, or any other information about them.

But you're right that that's the kind of thing that they would need to do to curb illegal immigration, and what enforcing the laws that are already on the books would involve.

Mass legal and illegal immigration with a welfare state in place only grows government and taxpayers pick up the tab. Hospitals, public schools and law enforcement have all been put under enormous pressure because we don't enforce our laws. Right now if we grant amnesty (low estimate) 11 million illegals that means they'll be able to bring in family members. Over the next 10 years that means 30 40 million mostly poor people. The United States will become one big gated community.

[mod edit]

Bottom line, you can't be for limited government and support lawlessness when it comes to immigration. The two just don't compute.

 

[twomp]

Mass legal and illegal immigration with a welfare state in place only grows government and taxpayers pick up the tab. Hospitals, public schools and law enforcement have all been put under enormous pressure because we don't enforce our laws. Right now if we grant amnesty (low estimate) 11 million illegals that means they'll be able to bring in family members. Over the next 10 years that means 30 40 million mostly poor people. The United States will become one big gated community.

And Rand is too dumb to see any of this.

Bottom line, you can't be for limited government and support lawlessness when it comes to immigration. The two just don't compute.

If Americans were willing to wash dishes, pick crops, clean toilets, there would be no need for a border fence or immigration reform. The immigrants would come here and have nothing to do. The problem isn't that there isn't enough man made laws to stop immigration. The problem is that immigrants will ALWAYS have an incentive to come here no matter how many bajillion laws are passed.

 

[DeMintConservative]

Sorry, but I can't disagree with you more. There are certain issues where it makes sense to vocally come out "against type". Marijuana Laws and NSA spying are two great examples. It confounds the MSM stereotype of Republicans, doesn't alienate the base, and best of all is the right side of the issue both politically and in terms of popularity among the general electorate.

Sure. I'm struggling to draw an analogy here though.

But this is just stupid. Voter ID is not a "real" issue. It is a fabrication of the media invented solely to paint Republicans as "racist". Nobody in the real world opposes voter ID laws. Not even the media or Dems really oppose them. They are all for the laws that require you to have an ID to open a bank account. So if you take what the media and Dems are selling at face value what they are saying is they want blacks to be able to vote but they don't want blacks to be allowed to bank. Does that make any sense to you? This is pure media nonsense, and the bad thing is the entire Conservative base knows it. My parents (both of whom are just regular mainstream Republicans) bitched to me on the phone about this after they voted in the NC primaries. Apparently the poll workers were trying make a huge deal about telling people they needed to bring their IDs in 2016 like it was the end of the world or something. My parents, who are barely political at all, rightly interpreted it as a Democratic smear. And if my parents think that way, I don't even want to know what the Republican base is thinking. This is a horrible, horrible, horrible, thing for Rand to be spouting off about. He's been on real tear of awfulness lately. I think he has to take a break or something, clear his head, and maybe replace some of his staff because if he keeps this crap up he's going to flame out before the primary season even gets underway.

Previous point: I understand what you mean by classifying your parents as "regular Republicans". However, from one perspective, those who vote in mid-term primaries aren't really "regular Republicans". There were 480k Republicans voting in last week's primary. In 2012, 970k voted in the Republican primary (Romney alone had 200k more voters than all the candidates who ran last week put together) and 2,300K voted for the Republican candidate in the general. Voters who participate in mid-term primaries tend to be highly informed voters and much more partisan and ideologically committed than the norm.

I agree substantively with everything you claim about voting-ID. Only the fringe far-left disagrees with election-integrity laws and the Democrat party/MSM use it as an wedge issue to rile up that part of their base and to accuse Republicans of being racist. And to some extent, that works.

In fact, it's pretty much an issue that nobody really cares about. The typical voter, even the typical Republican primary voter, won't see Rand Paul as opposed to voter-ID laws - he isn't. And those voters, they don't go around ticking ideological and issue boxes to pick up candidates. They form their view of the candidates through an heuristic process. And they like politicians who can project an image of empathy with those they disagree with, of being able to listen to the other side and all that crap. And that's all Rand Paul did - he's projecting that image. Not by flip-flopping on issues, but by saying to those he disagrees with "Aww shucks. I feel your pain".

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Sure. I'm struggling to draw an analogy here though.


Previous point: I understand what you mean by classifying your parents as "regular Republicans". However, from one perspective, those who vote in mid-term primaries aren't really "regular Republicans". There were 480k Republicans voting in last week's primary. In 2012, 970k voted in the Republican primary (Romney alone had 200k more voters than all the candidates who ran last week put together) and 2,300K voted for the Republican candidate in the general. Voters who participate in mid-term primaries tend to be highly informed voters and much more partisan and ideologically committed than the norm.

I agree substantively with everything you claim about voting-ID. Only the fringe far-left disagrees with election-integrity laws and the Democrat party/MSM use it as an wedge issue to rile up that part of their base and to accuse Republicans of being racist. And to some extent, that works.

In fact, it's pretty much an issue that nobody really cares about. The typical voter, even the typical Republican primary voter, won't see Rand Paul as opposed to voter-ID laws - he isn't. And those voters, they don't go around ticking ideological and issue boxes to pick up candidates. They form their view of the candidates through an heuristic process. And they like politicians who can project an image of empathy with those they disagree with, of being able to listen to the other side and all that crap. And that's all Rand Paul did - he's projecting that image. Not by flip-flopping on issues, but by saying to those he disagrees with "Aww shucks. I feel your pain".

We are being told in another thread that North Carolina voters could not possibly be different from everywhere else in the US. If what you say is true then that person cannot possibly be right. Because voter ID is a big issue North Carolina and pretty much nearly every Republican voter here cares about it. A lot.

 

[Michael Landon]

The voter fraud issue isn't that people are voting multiple times without showing ID's, it's those running the voting centers who can look at the voter rolls to see who hasn't voted yet and then casting votes in their names. That's how dead people vote, a simple check mark next to the name of the deceased and they've casted a vote. The Democrats have been doing this for years and having to show an ID won't fix that.

Another problem is electronic vote flipping where they move the votes from one candidate to another. An ID won't change this either.

- ML

 

[William R]

If Americans were willing to wash dishes, pick crops, clean toilets, there would be no need for a border fence or immigration reform. The immigrants would come here and have nothing to do. The problem isn't that there isn't enough man made laws to stop immigration. The problem is that immigrants will ALWAYS have an incentive to come here no matter how many bajillion laws are passed.

BS. I washed dishes when I was 14 and peeled 500lbs of potato's every Saturday at a BBQ joint. Teenagers can't find summer jobs any more because all the jobs they used to do are done by illegals. I took a semester off from college to clean expensive condos and hotel rooms at a well known ski resort in Colorado, made a few bucks and got to ski free all winter. Now all the cleaning jobs are done by illegals.

Make a few CEOs do the perp walk and attitudes will begin the change.

 

[jct74]

Paul's office clarifies voter ID remarks

By Mario Trujillo
May 12, 2014, 06:11 pm

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) continues to believe voter identification laws should be left up to individual states, an adviser to the senator said Monday.

Paul's senior adviser, Doug Stafford, downplayed remarks Paul made Friday when he advised Republicans not to go "too crazy" about voter identification laws because they are "offending people."

Stafford signaled that Paul's comments to The New York Times did not signal a change in view and said it is a point he has made many times before.

"In the course of that discussion, he reiterated a point he has made before that while there may be some instances of voter fraud, it should not be a defining issue of the Republican Party, as it is an issue that is perhaps perceived in a way it is not intended,” Stafford said in a statement Monday. “In terms of the specifics of voter ID laws, Senator Paul believes it's up to each state to decide that type of issue.”

Stafford said Paul made the comments while having a larger discussion about restoring voting rights to felons and reforms to the criminal justice system.

...

read more:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/205906-pauls-office-clarifies-voter-id-remarks

 

[WD-NY]

Not to belabor the issue, but here's the polling out of NH on Voter ID:

via: http://hotair.com/archives/2014/05/...s-shaheen-and-brown-in-statistical-dead-heat/

(3) This bar graph goes out to Sen. Rand Paul. Here’s how badly Republicans are “offending people” in New Hampshire. This lopsided outcome has been replicated nationwide. Overwhelming majorities of Americans back common-sense voter ID laws, including strong majorities of blacks and Hispanics. Opposition is loud, and is coordinated by the professionally aggrieved class.

 

[twomp]

BS. I washed dishes when I was 14 and peeled 500lbs of potato's every Saturday at a BBQ joint. Teenagers can't find summer jobs any more because all the jobs they used to do are done by illegals. I took a semester off from college to clean expensive condos and hotel rooms at a well known ski resort in Colorado, made a few bucks and got to ski free all winter. Now all the cleaning jobs are done by illegals.

Make a few CEOs do the perp walk and attitudes will begin the change.

Yeah and how long ago were you 14? Did you have an Iphone and a bazillion other gadgets? It doesn't take a lot to go walk around and see who's doing the majority of the jobs that us Americans feel we are too good for. You are delusional if you think employers would rather hire an illegal over someone who speaks perfectly good english and can communicate with them effectively. They are doing the jobs that no one else wants. DUH??

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

It's ridiculous when Rand makes a statement like this, but yet people say that he somehow doesn't "oppose voter ID." He has conservatives all over the internet believing that he's now a huge opponent of voter ID laws. If he's not opposed to voter ID laws, he certainly didn't do a good job of explaining his views.

It's ridiculous for Rand to state the obvious?