Rand Paul speech at Howard University 4/10/13 (tube added)

[jmdrake]

If your family still has conversations in German instead of a few curse words, than that is good. It is certainly atypical for most second generation Americans. However, I disagree. The language of America is English. All of our founding documents and literature and science is in English.


Williams is a legit economist and Ron was naming only one guy. If he rattled off 4 people in a row, all black, then I'd call him out for it.

Ron's too old school for that. For Pete's Sake he said the following about TSA agents: “Most of them are, well, you know, they just don’t look very American to me. If I’d have been looking, they look suspicious … I mean, a lot of them can’t even speak English, hardly. Not that I’m accusing them of anything, but it’s sort of ironic.” http://www.salon.com/2007/06/02/ron_paul_6/singleton/

Ah. Moving the goalpost. Now it has to be 4. Ron has also invoked MLK when appropriate.



Really, your argument does not hold water.

 

[jmdrake]

At least you understand my point. How is Hill' bein' 'ny diff'nt?

You don't understand that someone can disagree with your "point" and understand it. Yes, there's little different from ebonics and redneck. There's a huge difference between ebonics, redneck and standard Spanish. If Rand started speaking "spanglish" you'd have a point. Otherwise...you don't.

 

[abacabb]

Ah. Moving the goalpost. Now it has to be 4. Ron has also invoked MLK when appropriate.



Really, your argument does not hold water.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Ron doesn't go speak in front of a crowd of hispanics, speak spanglish to them and then quote nothing but hispanic people (who were commies no less). I'm not sure why you can't see the obvious condescending note.

 

[abacabb]

You don't understand that someone can disagree with your "point" and understand it. Yes, there's little different from ebonics and redneck. There's a huge difference between ebonics, redneck and standard Spanish. If Rand started speaking "spanglish" you'd have a point. Otherwise...you don't.

I'm not anti rand, I got a bumper stick of his on my car. But, his little stunt was amateurish in my honest opinion, and wouldn't fly in front of a group of black people.

 

[mczerone]

Paul will also speak about the "history of the Republican Party and African American voters," the aide told Business Insider.

I'd rather he just go and speak to them like they were a normal audience. Give them the same pitch he gives to a college in New Hampshire or town hall in Iowa. And of all the "black" topics to bring up, the "history of the Republican Party and African American voters" seems an odd choice. Because doesn't that boil down to, "when the standard bearer of the GOP was a mass murdering tyrant, the GOP was popular with blacks, and remained so for over a hundred years until the GOP nominated one of the best and most pro-liberty candidates to run for President in the 20th Century, at which point blacks deserted the GOP en masse."?

They ARE a normal audience, and as such a speaker rightly chooses topics and language to reach that audience.

A politician's speech given in Iowa should be different than one given in NH, should be different than one given in San Diego. The message should be consistent and principled, but the form and the content should ALWAYS be tailored to the audience. San Diego doesn't want to hear about farm freedom and rural issues, and NH doesn't really want to hear about a principled approach to Mexican immigrants.

Rand would be right to capitalize on the anti-liberty actions that the Dems have done and show those at Howard how their families and self-selected cultures have been decimated by the policies that were sold to them as "help".

 

[jmdrake]

I'm not anti rand, I got a bumper stick of his on my car. But, his little stunt was amateurish in my honest opinion, and wouldn't fly in front of a group of black people.

I guess what I'm saying, my point that you can't seem to grasp, is that speaking ebonics would be a different "stunt". If Rand came in and started speaking some Swahili, maybe raise is fist and shout out a few "Harambes", then that might be similar.

 

[mczerone]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Ron doesn't go speak in front of a crowd of hispanics, speak spanglish to them and then quote nothing but hispanic people (who were commies no less). I'm not sure why you can't see the obvious condescending note.

Goofily attempting to relate to a crowd with small snippets of what you think their language is is not the same as picking the issues that you know that they care about and focusing on them, or by picking an issue that you know they are mistaken about and trying to show them your side of it.

Relating to an audience =/= pandering =/= condescension.

 

[abacabb]

I guess what I'm saying, my point that you can't seem to grasp, is that speaking ebonics would be a different "stunt". If Rand came in and started speaking some Swahili, maybe raise is fist and shout out a few "Harambes", then that might be similar.

Not all Africans speak swahili though.

What if he went in front of a crowd of muslims and rattled of a few verses in Arabic from the Quran (being that all Muslims pray in Arabic) and then quoted only muslims? It just seems to me to be total pandering.

 

[abacabb]

Goofily attempting to relate to a crowd with small snippets of what you think their language is is not the same as picking the issues that you know that they care about and focusing on them, or by picking an issue that you know they are mistaken about and trying to show them your side of it.

Relating to an audience =/= pandering =/= condescension.

True, but where in Rand's meandering speech did he do that? All I seem to remember is that his principal was divorced, he hated spanish class and that if people want to work in America they can. I don't see his attempt at relating opening the opportunity for any pro-liberty info bombs. It was pure political expediency, to thrust himself into an immigration debate which he has no say in, because he's not in the gang of 8.

 

[jmdrake]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Ron doesn't go speak in front of a crowd of hispanics, speak spanglish to them and then quote nothing but hispanic people (who were commies no less). I'm not sure why you can't see the obvious condescending note.

Saying some Spanish sentences in a mostly English speech isn't "spanglish". At least it doesn't fit my definition. Spanglish is using what is neither recognizable English nor recognizable Spanish. My Spanish is rusty, but reading through his speech the phrases he used are recognizable Spanish.

As for quoting "commies"? Well I'm glad you apparently recognize that MLK wasn't a commie. That's been a bone of contention around here. If you do think MLK was a commie (I don't) then Ron did the same thing Rand did in that regard.

 

[jmdrake]

Not all Africans speak swahili though.

What if he went in front of a crowd of muslims and rattled of a few verses in Arabic from the Quran (being that all Muslims pray in Arabic) and then quoted only muslims? It just seems to me to be total pandering.

Yeah. But many (if not most) African Americans, who have no idea what language our ancestors spoke, have adopted Swahili as a kind of ancestoral language. It definitely carries a different weight, especially among educated blacks (like you'll find at Howard University) than does ebonics.

 

[jmdrake]

abacabb: I'm curious. Who did Rand reference quote that you thought was communist? Jaime Escalante, the calculus teacher who helped inner city kids perform exceptionally well on AP exams, Migeul de Unamondo, the Spanish author that at first embraced Franco, but then came out strong against fascism? Neither seem communist to me. Or am I missing someone?

 

[whoisjohngalt]

"The concern I was expressing is that part of the civil rights act is based on a flawed interpretation of the interstate commerce clause that claims that anything anyone does that might have some impact on interstate commerce can be regulated by the federal government. Even whether or not you each vegetables arguably has a cumulative effect on Interstate commerce. The supreme court in more recent years has started to real in that broad interpretation of the commerce clause. While I applaud that, I am concerned as to what that means for those depending on the Civil Rights Act as written. That's just something people need to think about."

I think this would be an absolute failure and people will not pay attention until he is done talking at which point they will label him a racist. He should and will say something closer to this, "Well the interesting thing is that the left wing media tried to portray me as some kind of racist, but the truth is that I want to allow racist business owners to self identify so I can withhold my business and encourage others to do so. I just can't understand a law that forces racists to hide in the shadows and allows them to profit off of the people they hate. I think that makes me the opposite of a racist."

And then the crowd goes wild.

 

[abacabb]

Saying some Spanish sentences in a mostly English speech isn't "spanglish". At least it doesn't fit my definition. Spanglish is using what is neither recognizable English nor recognizable Spanish. My Spanish is rusty, but reading through his speech the phrases he used are recognizable Spanish.

As for quoting "commies"? Well I'm glad you apparently recognize that MLK wasn't a commie. That's been a bone of contention around here. If you do think MLK was a commie (I don't) then Ron did the same thing Rand did in that regard.

Well, Rand quoted leftists. MLK was a leftist, though he gets a pass from me for his opposition to Vietname and segregation. He, like Paul, are latter day prophets perhaps.

 

[abacabb]

abacabb: I'm curious. Who did Rand reference quote that you thought was communist? Jaime Escalante, the calculus teacher who helped inner city kids perform exceptionally well on AP exams, Migeul de Unamondo, the Spanish author that at first embraced Franco, but then came out strong against fascism? Neither seem communist to me. Or am I missing someone?

To quote the crappy ex-congressman

"Rand Paul concluded his speech by quoting (in Spanish) the Chilean poet Pablo Neruda. Paul did not mention that Neruda served as a Senator for the Chilean Communist Party."
http://m.christianpost.com/news/why-i-no-longer-stand-with-rand-paul-92423/

 

[jmdrake]

I think this would be an absolute failure and people will not pay attention until he is done talking at which point they will label him a racist. He should and will say something closer to this, "Well the interesting thing is that the left wing media tried to portray me as some kind of racist, but the truth is that I want to allow racist business owners to self identify so I can withhold my business and encourage others to do so. I just can't understand a law that forces racists to hide in the shadows and allows them to profit off of the people they hate. I think that makes me the opposite of a racist."

And then the crowd goes wild.

Well I would find your approach an absolute failure if it was tried on me. So I hope he goes with mine. Seriously, understanding the commerce clause is the only reason I came to peace with Ron Paul's position on the CRA. Not some Jon Stossel "reverse racism" argument. I doubt the reverse racism argument will work with others either.

 

[Zarn Solen]

As a Hispanic, I ask people who are offended for me to stop. I say the same to the liberals who tell me that I should be upset about something they think is racist.

I have no issue with Rand Paul speaking Spanish. He spoke to a specifically Hispanic crowd. If anything, it was appropriate to use a little Spanish.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Well I would find your approach an absolute failure if it was tried on me. So I hope he goes with mine. Seriously, understanding the commerce clause is the only reason I came to peace with Ron Paul's position on the CRA. Not some Jon Stossel "reverse racism" argument. I doubt the reverse racism argument will work with others either.

Haha, only time will tell. You place far too much confidence in your fellow man's ability to a. give a shit about the Constitution and b. consider the intricacies of a position. Most people shut down the second you start discussing the constitutionality of something. For your average person, they only invoke the Constitution when it suits what they want and are happy to ignore it when what they want conflicts with what is constitutional. On something like race especially, they are inclined to say or think, "I don't care what the Constitution says. Racism is bad and we need to stop it. The Constitution also once permitted slavery."

 

[abacabb]

As a Hispanic, I ask people who are offended for me to stop. I say the same to the liberals who tell me that I should be upset about something they think is racist.

I have no issue with Rand Paul speaking Spanish. He spoke to a specifically Hispanic crowd. If anything, it was appropriate to use a little Spanish.

I don't think any one is saying what he was doing was offensive. My opinion is that he was being condescending. But, hey, it appears he played to his audience.

 

[Zarn Solen]

Being condescending is offensive. It's inherent.

The only person being condescending is the person that is telling me that I don't like it when white people speak Spanish to Hispanics. BTW, most Hispanics have "white blood."