Rand Paul on Immigration: 'The 11 Million Are Never Going Home'

[Ronin Truth]

If we had 20 million illegal aliens from Sweden would anyone bitch?

Sure, criminals are criminals. Stop the bogus efforts to make this an ethnic issue, it's just common sense.


Lose the diversions and distractions and focus on stopping the criminals from wherever.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Yeah, let's stop the daily influx of babies into the country.

Is there a shortage?

 

[Valli6]

Yeah, let's stop the daily influx of babies into the country.

Not sure what you're trying to say. Maybe you didn't understand I was referring to the 'native rapists, con men, criminals and entitled Americans who demand "free stuff"' you brought up.

 

[Ronin Truth]

So you truly believe that everyone who comes here outside the legal process instantly become criminals just by crossing the border?

That's what the law says.

Do you also believe people who smoke marijuana instantly become criminals the first time they smoke?

That's what the law says.

By your logic, that would seem to be the case.

It ain't MY logic, it's just logic.

I personally believe true crime must have a victim.

That's not what the law says.

///

 

[idiom]

How about the fit hispanic wimmin get amnesty and we deport the rest?

I think that is a solution we can all agree on.

 

[Jamesiv1]

If we had 20 million illegal aliens from Sweden would anyone bitch?

Not if half of them had blond hair, blue eyes and kind of a free-wheeling attitude toward... stuff and such.

 

[Krugminator2]

As do buglers, car thieves, armed robbers, bank robbers, and more. The guy who steals your big screen TV, just wants a better picture for his family. m'kay?

Okay. There is a major difference. Burglars, car thieves, armed robbers, and bank robbers all have one thing in common. They are all violating the rights of someone else.

Whose rights rights are violated when an immigrant comes to the country? The answer is no one's rights are violated as long as they are not able to get welfare, which only a very small percentage do get. A working immigrant makes everyone better off in the same way free trade makes everyone better off.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Not sure what you're trying to say. Maybe you didn't understand I was referring to the 'native rapists, con men, criminals and entitled Americans who demand "free stuff"' you brought up.

But if you're so worried about the draining effects of the entitlement system on tax payers, wouldn't it make more sense to go after existing American citizens who continue to pump babies out at a far quicker pace than the immigrants coming in?

 

[NOVALibertarian]

So you truly believe that everyone who comes here outside the legal process instantly become criminals just by crossing the border? Do you also believe people who smoke marijuana instantly become criminals the first time they smoke? By your logic, that would seem to be the case. I personally believe true crime must have a victim.

Yes, because doing something that isn't legal makes one a criminal in the eyes of the law. Your philosophical arguments won't save you from the Leviathan.

Rand needs to double down on these comments and not walk them back. He needs to make the argument that any attempts to remove 11 million unidentifiable illegal aliens from amongst the population would result in massive violations of civil liberties for ALL citizens.

No he shouldn't, especially when he hasn't even escaped the GOP primaries yet and most of those eleven million wouldn't even vote for him anyway.

I think what a lot of the people here who support unfiltered immigration and open borders are forgetting how detrimental these people are to the voting process. These people overwhelmingly vote for the left and will only serve as greater impediments to someone like Rand Paul coming to power in the future. This isn't partisan, but a reality: the Left has become infected with cancerous Progressivism, of which there is no cure. Meanwhile, the Right, whose body consists of a ton of traitors to the Republic and to the Party itself, can still be salvaged if Rand Paul and those who follow his ideology take control of the Party. The Left, on the other hand, is completely stuck on the RMS Progressive, and are intent with bringing everyone else down with them into the cold ocean waters of oppression.

All of the progress that we have currently made and will make in the future will be completely and irreconcilably negated if more and more left-wing voters are allowed to enter and vote in our elections. That's a reality.

Or they just care to support and vote for a party that will only get 1-2% of the vote. Which, in that case, I completely understand their viewpoints, for they have nothing to lose electorally in the first place.

 

[Valli6]

But if you're so worried about the draining effects of the entitlement system on tax payers, wouldn't it make more sense to go after existing American citizens who continue to pump babies out at a far quicker pace than the immigrants coming in?

Go after them on what grounds? There's no law against bad judgment.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Go after them on what grounds? There's no law against bad judgment.

Actually bad judgement is rewarded far too often. Probably a very significant reason why we're getting so much more of it.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Go after them on what grounds? There's no law against bad judgment.

If you favor legally restricting the movement of people, why not go further and attack the problem at its source and mandate sterilization?

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

If you oppose legally restricting the movement of people, why not go further and attack the problem at its source and abolish private property?

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

President Paul's grand bargain -- keep the 11 million, deport the other 14 million.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

If you oppose legally restricting the movement of people, why not go further and attack the problem at its source and abolish private property?

How is my private property being affected by Mexicans crossing an arbitrary line?

 

[Ronin Truth]

If you favor legally restricting the movement of people, why not go further and attack the problem at its source and mandate sterilization?

What if you favor legally restricting the illegal movement of people? The source of the problem is coming here to have their kids, only for the US citizenship taxpayer paid for benefits.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

If you oppose legally restricting the movement of people, why not go further and attack the problem at its source and abolish private property?

State borders or State owned land aren't private property.

 

[RandallFan]

NH Senate candidates say amnesty is the big problem with Ayotte.



Does Rand believe out of 12 million that none of them are defrauding American's ID's and have their both their hands out for freebies which is grounds for deportation.

Scott Brown and Paul LePage poll better than Rand in the northeast and they bash illegals, do/don't support abortion, do/don't support gun control and do/don't exhibit harsh rhetoric.

Rand might not even get his halfbaked amnesty bill passed by a 2017 congress. He's thinking way too far ahead. Sheldon Adelson and his donors will probably moonlight as being anti amnesty in 2017-2020 and try to undermine him and primary him in 2020.




A nobody candidate is going to get 30% or more against Kelly Ayotte on the issue of amnesty for illegals and the idea that "these people aren't going home" , let's get them on voter rolls and ignore more important issues for congress.

LePage, Howie Carr, Scott Brown, Smith and Jim Rubens don't seem to be big on amnesty but they are big on getting GOP Primary voters and white moderates in the northeast. Even the RINO governor of Massachusetts goes on Howie Carr's show to talk about illegals and stupid Democrat policies.

Rand position here is for Congress to make Obama's amnesty, work-permits,etc. permanent and leave it up to the liberal judges to decide how many freebies and when and how these 12 million get to join the Democrat voter rolls.


Democrats support open borders because they are non-white. The evil white founding fathers need to be taught a lesson.

The folks at Treason Magazine have some circlejerk fantasy about every demographic benefiting equally and everyone loving their position on immigration while Gary Johnson polls at 0.99%. Gary Johnson ran on open borders, and he couldn't break 1%.

Because the only third parties that make difference bash open borders or Trade agreements which Rand is on the establishment side on at the moment.

Democrats would oppose illegal immigration it if they were white.

In Europe they are concerned about white EU immigrants undercutting wages.

 

[RonPaulMall]

If we had 20 million illegal aliens from Sweden would anyone bitch?

Probably not as much, no. We need to recognize that the core, fundamental issue surrounding immigration is quality of life. It is ridiculous and counterproductive to pretend that all immigration is equal. Southern California has been transformed from a paradise in to a living hell (for all except the rich) largely because of immigration. Seattle and Vancouver on the other hand, have seen their quality of life stay the same or even improve because they've had a very different sort of immigration dynamic.

A large influx of Swedes would probably make your neighborhood nicer or at worst, have no impact.
A large influx of Mexicans would probably have the opposite effect.

This is nothing against Mexicans. Mexicans are by large pleasant and hardworking people. As immigrant groups go, one can do far worse than Mexicans. But if your primary concern in property values and the quality of local schools (and these are the big Middle Class concerns) one can do far better too.

The key to winning the Immigration Debate is to frame it the right way. The media has done an excellent job of conditioning the sheeple to believe that saying "Swedes are preferable immigrant group than Mexicans" is "bad" even though nobody in their right mind actually doubts the veracity of such a statement. But there is really no reason to wade in to that mess. My proposal- simply come up with an immigration plan premised on the idea that the immigrant should demonstrate what benefit they bring to America rather than the other way around. This is a concept which would prove incredibly popular among the people and put the left in an impossible position. Let's propose an immigration plan that ranks applicants on the basis of objective criteria that correspond with the type of things most people value in their neighbors. Basic competency in English, above average IQ, proven skills, lack of a violent criminal background, ect. This is actually the way immigration works (at least on paper) in much of the world.


Rand's support for Amnesty is going to be his #1 problem in the Republican primaries, and might cost him his chance at the Presidency. Even if he believes what he does, I don't see why he's being so vocal about and giving his rivals all the rope they need to hang him.

 

[NOVALibertarian]

Rand's support for Amnesty is going to be his #1 problem in the Republican primaries, and might cost him his chance at the Presidency. Even if he believes what he does, I don't see why he's being so vocal about and giving his rivals all the rope they need to hang him.

Yeah, this is one issue that I'll vehemently disagree with Rand on. I don't understand what his end game is with this. Perhaps he sees it as "broadening the GOP base," but what I don't think he understands is that the overwhelming majority of these immigrants from left-wing nations will NOT vote Republican. Politically, it's a terrible idea to allow those people to vote, especially when you're a Republican trying to become President. Any votes that he might gain from this group will be cancelled out by the votes he'll lose from traditional Republican voters.

Rand should cater his outreach solely towards African-Americans, for they're a group that are experiencing first-hand the results of failed Progressive policies, along with the fact that they're the ones who will feel the majority of the wrath that will be brought upon the Republic by amnesty. The Democrats can get all the votes from Hispanics that they want, but they cannot win if they lose a quarter of the African-American vote.