Rand Paul on Immigration: 'The 11 Million Are Never Going Home'

[AuH20]

Secondly, who wants to bet that the 11 million number is bunk, just like all contrived government numbers? From what I have read, it's probably closer to 25, give or take for some seasonal adjustments. If you look at the annual rate of entry, it does not fit with the 11 million number.

 

[NACBA]

Probably, due to the sheer numbers. You just can't take millions of people with distinct cultural imprints and spontaneously move them into an occupied area. It's like poultry but on a much grander scale. Ever try to introduce a new chicken to an existing flock? It's not pretty.

True

 

[mit26chell]

Immigration isn't the problem. Coming here illegally IS. Becoming a criminal coming in, is not really a very good start, nor makes you welcome. Good fences make good neighbors.

So you truly believe that everyone who comes here outside the legal process instantly become criminals just by crossing the border? Do you also believe people who smoke marijuana instantly become criminals the first time they smoke? By your logic, that would seem to be the case. I personally believe true crime must have a victim.

 

[LawnWake]

So you truly believe that everyone who comes here outside the legal process instantly become criminals just by crossing the border? Do you also believe people who smoke marijuana instantly become criminals the first time they smoke? By your logic, that would seem to be the case. I personally believe true crime must have a victim.

Yeah, the only one that victimizes anyone is the state by taking money from one person and giving it to another. But that's bad whether it's done by giving money to illegal immigrants, or legal ones, or to anyone for that matter.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Let's quadruple their tax burden.

 

[CaptUSA]

If we had 20 million illegal aliens from Sweden would anyone bitch?

Do they look like this?

 

[thoughtomator]

I would wager that with proper incentives - removal of freebies and reliable deportation when they are caught - 90% of them would beat a path back to Mexico.

 

[Hrothgar]

Agreed. I find most people who are staunchly against immigrants tend to be both ethno-centric (oftentimes downright racist) as well as ignorant about the actual effect of immigrants on labor (I'm so sick of hearing how they will "take our jobs"). I love multiculturalism and having the ability to interact with people from around the world within my own country. Immigration is a very positive thing, imho.

Obviously, crime & and handouts would be the always negative aspects, but I believe it would be hard to prove that these people are any 'worse' than the average American citizen.

I love Multiculturalism as well, as well as Hispanic Culture. So much so I married a Latina. However the Elephant in the room is the handouts and that the system is teaching these people and especially their Children that they are entitled to every possible goody the Gov't creates and that America "stole their land." Especially prevalent in the border states. Unfortunately for many we see the lingering issues on the horizon. Legalize the 25 million and you just may legalize 22 million new Democrats.

If we had 20 million illegal aliens from Sweden would anyone bitch?

When the Irish flocked, we bitched. When the Germans flocked, we bitched. If 25 million Swedes came here grabbing up all the entitlements they could, people would bitch.

*BTW: Living in AZ for two decades I can tell you most of the people complaining in the border states about illegals complain just as much about the Canadian Socialists that take over entire Cities each winter. I think it's more frustration and less about race than people want to believe.

 

[fisharmor]

"I’ve always been of the opinion that we should do things the proper way," Paul said.

I'm still waiting for someone to show how the laws we are discussing were enacted in a proper way.

The existing laws are unconstitutional, so I don't see a problem with an executive just declaring he's not going to follow them.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

If it weren't for the government's welfare state and drug prohibition, most of the "problems" would go away on their own.

Precisely

 

[Valli6]

And exactly who gets deported?

Okay, so those with jobs could be given work visas and could pay taxes.

What about the rest?
Who would the law deport?
And let’s not pretend they’re all Mexicans, by the way.

What about those who don’t work, and take advantage of a welfare system they were never entitled to?
What about those who’ve commited violent crimes, robberies, serious fraud?

Don’t imply this needn’t be taken into account, just because it's a relatively small percentage of them…
Will criminals, con men, and rapists be deported or will they be treated like American criminals, becoming a lifetime burden to the rest of us?

What about those who come here expecting/demanding special treatment from government and neighbors?
We have lobbyists demanding special laws, special grants, pro-whatever-ethnicity classes, persons asserting demands for an increasing number of freebies they feel entitled to by virtue of their ethnic background. These persons tend to call proponents of equal-treatment-under-law “racist”, just because it means they would be deprived of special perks. Do we need more self-centered people in America?

What about those who will be suing every time some sign, form, or statement, is written in english, rather than whatever foreign language they prefer to speak?

And who will be permitted to vote in American elections? And run for office?

None of the things I mention above were an issue with prior waves of immigration because no one received welfare. Immigrants expected nothing from the American government - nothing other than the chance to participate in our system. (And none blatantly sought to transform that system at the expense of the native citizens.)

I hope Rand will eventually address such issues in depth.

 

[LawnWake]

Okay, so those with jobs could be given work visas and could pay taxes.

What about the rest?
Who would the law deport?
And let’s not pretend they’re all Mexicans, by the way.

What about those who don’t work, and take advantage of a welfare system they were never entitled to?
What about those who’ve commited violent crimes, robberies, serious fraud?

Don’t imply this needn’t be taken into account, just because it's a relatively small percentage of them…
Will criminals, con men, and rapists be deported or will they be treated like American criminals, becoming a lifetime burden to the rest of us?

What about those who come here expecting/demanding special treatment from government and neighbors?
We have lobbyists demanding special laws, special grants, pro-whatever-ethnicity classes, persons asserting demands for an increasing number of freebies they feel entitled to by virtue of their ethnic background. These persons tend to call proponents of equal-treatment-under-law “racist”, just because it means they would be deprived of special perks. Do we need more self-centered people in America?

What about those who will be suing every time some sign, form, or statement, is written in english, rather than whatever foreign language they prefer to speak?

And who will be permitted to vote in American elections? And run for office?

None of the things I mention above were an issue with prior waves of immigration because no one received welfare. Immigrants expected nothing from the American government - nothing other than the chance to participate in our system. (And none blatantly sought to transform that system at the expense of the native citizens.)

I hope Rand will eventually address such issues in depth.

What about native rapists, con men and criminals? What about entitled Americans who demand "free stuff" from the government? You're shifting the entire argument in the wrong direction by framing any of the issues as beign related to immigration, rather than the welfare state. Nations are arbitrary and subjective. There's nothing about the piece of land within the USA border that makes it anymore 'yours' than somebody else's. Governments decide borders and governments' power is an illusion. Thus, so are borders. The only borders that are worth anything are those around private property.

 

[Millennial Conservatarian]

Rand needs to double down on these comments and not walk them back. He needs to make the argument that any attempts to remove 11 million unidentifiable illegal aliens from amongst the population would result in massive violations of civil liberties for ALL citizens.

 

[Valli6]

What about native rapists, con men and criminals? What about entitled Americans who demand "free stuff" from the government? You're shifting the entire argument in the wrong direction by framing any of the issues as beign related to immigration, rather than the welfare state. Nations are arbitrary and subjective. There's nothing about the piece of land within the USA border that makes it anymore 'yours' than somebody else's. Governments decide borders and governments' power is an illusion. Thus, so are borders. The only borders that are worth anything are those around private property.

I thought I made it clear that we already have enough of our own, therefore shouldn’t condone the importation of more.
Yes, the welfare state is the problem, but since they will not be ending it anytime soon, those of us forced to pay for it deserve to be protected from those overwhelming us. You can make fine arguments about the illusion of governments and borders, and make absolute sense from a philosophical standpoint - but that’s not the world we inhabit right now.

They can only take some practical steps to lessen the burden on citizens. Sending criminals home is one step they should be capable of handling.

 

[LawnWake]

I thought I made it clear that we already have enough of our own, therefore shouldn’t condone the importation of more.

Yeah, let's stop the daily influx of babies into the country.

 

[staerker]

I think you are stretching here. Do you really just dislike the fact that they are here because the law says they stayed illegally, or is it more true that you just don't like them and the law supports you. ( I for some reason doubt I am going to get a honest answer here based on your posts. ) Do you pick and choose which laws you like and dislike? What is your stance on federal drug laws? Shouldn't immigration and resident alien issues be more up to the states?

He is a self proclaimed anarchist, which leaves him little room for justification.

 

[RonZeplin]

they only want a better life for their families

As do buglers, car thieves, armed robbers, bank robbers, and more. The guy who steals your big screen TV, just wants a better picture for his family. m'kay?

 

[Jeremy]

If we had 20 million illegal aliens from Sweden would anyone bitch?

Yes because that's more than double the population of Sweden, so it would be really strange.

 

[asurfaholic]

As do buglers, car thieves, armed robbers, bank robbers, and more. The guy who steals your big screen TV, just wants a better picture for his family. m'kay?

What do you want, a cookie, or a sticker for your most intelligent contribution to this conversation? What are you 11 years old?

 

[Ronin Truth]

I think you are stretching here. Do you really just dislike the fact that they are here because the law says they stayed illegally, or is it more true that you just don't like them and the law supports you. ( I for some reason doubt I am going to get a honest answer here based on your posts. ) Do you pick and choose which laws you like and dislike? What is your stance on federal drug laws? Shouldn't immigration and resident alien issues be more up to the states?

You may of course believe whatever you choose to believe. I dislike criminals. Sure I pick laws. Don't you? Repeal drug laws. Persuade the Feds, border security is a national issue.