Rand Paul: I’m ‘torn’ on shutdown

[1836er]

He's saying that to appease the public who don't want a government shutdown, because that sounds so bad, but it won't be.

GGRRR, and that's what's so frustrating. In order to win the GOP nomination he's got to get the hardcore conservative base on his side. He's certainly not going to win the nomination by playing to what passes for the political "center," as it is the establishment who most despises and fears him. Instead he should be playing up to the conservative base (to the extent he should be playing politics) by showing his willingness to accept a government shutdown if it comes to that.

 

[KingNothing]

He's saying that to appease the public who don't want a government shutdown, because that sounds so bad, but it won't be.

A government shutdown WOULD be that bad because the Democrats and Obama would make it that bad. And they'd be able to blame the GOP.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

A government shutdown WOULD be that bad because the Democrats and Obama would make it that bad. And they'd be able to blame the GOP.

Not if Cruz was successful. Then it would be in the democrats court. Play ball.

 

[Christian Liberty]

No, not if it causes the entire Congress to be taken over by liberal Democrats who would give us a full fledged single payer system.

That's unlikely.

He's saying that to appease the public who don't want a government shutdown, because that sounds so bad, but it won't be.

It won't be. Rand should explain this to this one.

And Rand doesn't philosophically support "shutting down the government" since he believes in limited government and isn't an anarchist.

I understand that, and that's an in-house debate we can have. But "Shutting down the government" doesn't actually mean shutting down ALL the government anyway. You know that.

It would be political suicide especially if soldiers and old people dont get checks

I'd love to have a liberty candidate that would have the guts to challenge the rights of government parasites (And yes, this includes 65 and over people who collect SS, medicare, medicaid, etc.) from voting. It won't happen, but that's also the only way we can win, IMO. Pandering to them continually won't lead to us winning anything worth winning.

 

[Warlord]

Not if Cruz was successful. Then it would be in the democrats court. Play ball.

Listen to people who know what we're talking about? Cruz will not be successful

 

[Brett85]

GGRRR, and that's what's so frustrating. In order to win the GOP nomination he's got to get the hardcore conservative base on his side. He's certainly not going to win the nomination by playing to what passes for the political "center," as it is the establishment who most despises and fears him. Instead he should be playing up to the conservative base (to the extent he should be playing politics) by showing his willingness to accept a government shutdown if it comes to that.

Rand has said that he's going to vote with Cruz and vote against closure on this bill. The only thing you're criticizing Rand for is that you don't think the rhetoric he's using is hardcore enough.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Rand is too cozy with leadership and 2016 aspirations to see the big picture. Mainly, that the old guard needs to go, which includes his boy Mitch.

Taking the Senate and House is far more important than taking the White House at this point. Having control of the bully pulpit is absolutely useless when you're unwilling to be bold. Does anybody really think that Rand will take off the sheep's coat he's been wearing and go full retard, betraying everyone he's been courting, once he takes office? At absolute best, he'll be the watered down libertarian-ish figure he's been in the Senate. More likely, he'll have to compromise much further. Worst case, the path he's on will lead him to a Reagan-like term in office.

If he wants to 'play the game,' then play the game and take out the establishment in the Senate. 'Playing the game' in an attempt to win the presidency is worse than useless; it's counterproductive.

 

[Brett85]

Why is Rand getting so much criticism for this from the so called "conservative blogosphere" when former VP nominee Paul Ryan has stated that he's completely opposed to using the threat of shutting down the government in order to defund Obamacare? Apparently Paul Ryan is beyond criticism.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Why is Rand getting so much criticism for this from the so called "conservative blogosphere" when former VP nominee Paul Ryan has stated that he's completely opposed to using the threat of shutting down the government in order to defund Obamacare? Apparently Paul Ryan is beyond criticism.

Because Rand has been making overtures to them his entire time in the Senate, and at this point he's much more visible than Paul Ryan.

 

[Brett85]

Because Rand has been making overtures to them his entire time in the Senate, and at this point he's much more visible than Paul Ryan.

But Rand isn't even opposed to Cruz's plan of voting against closure on this bill. Rand said that he's going to vote against closure. The only criticism of Rand is that he's apparently not using rhetoric that's hardcore enough for some people.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Why is Rand getting so much criticism for this from the so called "conservative blogosphere" when former VP nominee Paul Ryan has stated that he's completely opposed to using the threat of shutting down the government in order to defund Obamacare? Apparently Paul Ryan is beyond criticism.

Over there maybe. Over here, we all know we all hate Paul Ryan.

 

[jj-]

Why is Rand getting so much criticism for this from the so called "conservative blogosphere" when former VP nominee Paul Ryan has stated that he's completely opposed to using the threat of shutting down the government in order to defund Obamacare? Apparently Paul Ryan is beyond criticism.

Because while he will vote against cloture, he is defending those who will vote for cloture. He did that for example this morning during the Glenn Beck show. He said that saying that a vote for cloture is a vote for Obamacare is unfair, and used the same lame, false rationalizations the establishment republicans are using.

Because while he is voting against cloture, he is spending his time arguing a vote for cloture is fine.

He is voting for Cruz's plan while actively helping his enemies to undermine Cruz's plan.

 

[Brett85]

Does anyone really think that Ron Paul would get involved in all of these strategies and political battles? He would just vote "no" on the budget and not even say anything about it. And he would vote "no" not just because Obamacare might get funded, but because these budgets contain all kinds of other unconstitutional spending and funding for the wars overseas. I'm just saying that Ron was always very principled, but he didn't really get involved in these kind of strategic battles.

 

[Brett85]

Because while he will vote against cloture, he is defending those who will vote for cloture.

So you want him to piss off his fellow Republicans in the Senate so that he won't ever get any future support from them when he introduces a bill or an amendment that he wants to pass?

 

[jj-]

I'm just saying that Ron was always very principled, but he didn't really get involved in these kind of strategic battles.

Yeah, I don't think when he voted for his audit of the fed he went out of his way and spent his time in radio shows arguing that voting against the audit is actually ok, which is similar to what Rand is doing now. Voting against cloture while defending those who vote for it.

 

[jj-]

So you want him to piss off his fellow Republicans in the Senate so that he won't ever get any future support from them when he introduces a bill or an amendment that he wants to pass?

He could just not say anything about that. He could say I'm voting this way, each person has to make up his mind.

 

[puppetmaster]

GGRRR, and that's what's so frustrating. In order to win the GOP nomination he's got to get the hardcore conservative base on his side. He's certainly not going to win the nomination by playing to what passes for the political "center," as it is the establishment who most despises and fears him. Instead he should be playing up to the conservative base (to the extent he should be playing politics) by showing his willingness to accept a government shutdown if it comes to that.

Appeal to the santorum folks.......lol silly and foolish. It won't be them that carry the next election

 

[Brett85]

Yeah, I don't think when he voted for his audit of the fed he went out of his way and spent his time in radio shows arguing that voting against the audit is actually ok, which is similar to what Rand is doing now. Voting against cloture while defending those who vote for it.

This isn't at all the same situation. The bill that the house passed defunded Obamacare, and now anyone who votes for closure on a bill that defunds Obamacare somehow is in favor of Obamacare.

 

[Brett85]

He could just not say anything about that. He could say I'm voting this way, each person has to make up his mind.

Well, he had to answer the question since he's been asked that specific question about 50 times. He's not going to throw his fellow Republican Senators under the bus when asked that question.

 

[jj-]

This isn't at all the same situation. The bill that the house passed defunded Obamacare, and now anyone who votes for closure on a bill that defunds Obamacare somehow is in favor of Obamacare.

That's correct, because that's equivalent to allowing amendments with just 51 votes. It's a double standard. Republicans tend to not go along with closing debate unless there is an agreement to get 60 votes for amendments.