Rand Paul: I'm Not a libertarian...

[Christian Liberty]

I do from the 14th Amendment.

Granted, I'd like to get rid of that amendment.

I'm honestly not sure what the problem with birthright citizenship is, even though I know Ron Paul doesn't like it. Honestly, I'm thankfful to God that I have my citizenship right now without having to swear that naturalization oath. I'm not technically a pacifist, but I can't really promise to serve in the armed forces "When required by the law" either...

All that said, I do understand that the 14th amendment is probably not valid simply because the Southern states signed at the point of a gun. I don't really think the states should be able to violate people's rights entirely without consequence, but I don't support making war against them either. I don't like the whole "Withholding funds" thing in theory right now since the states literally have no choice but to pay, but if secession was an option, I'd be fine with withholding funds from states that violate the rights of their people. I'd also be fine with outright expelling states that do anything serious against human rights. I think standing by and doing nothing while abortion is committed would be a pretty extreme rights violation worthy of expulsion, if we ever got to that point.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Fucking goddamnit. He has to stop this BS. He is alienating his entire base!!

The plan is to get a new base.

 

[FrankRep]

Fucking goddamnit. He has to stop this BS. He is alienating his entire base!!

Rand Paul's base are Conservative Republican Constitutionalists.

 

[erowe1]

The plan is to get a new base.

No it's not.

Most of Ron's supporters are going to stick with Rand. Most of the ones that won't were never "the base."

 

[Thor]

Fucking goddamnit. He has to stop this BS. He is alienating his entire base!!

So, if the choices comes down to:

• Rand Paul (R)
• Hitlery Clinton (D)
• Gary Johnson (L)

You meant to tell me you are voting Johnson to give him 1.000001% and to stick to your principles? Go for it. That "base" is negligible. And "margin of error" does not win an election. Masses of people voting for the same person wins an election. Rand is gathering the "mass" and I thank him for that. If he burns us after getting elected, then we are fucked. But this is the only path to success we have at the moment.

 

[cajuncocoa]

So, if the choices comes down to:

• Rand Paul (R)
• Hitlery Clinton (D)
• Gary Johnson (L)

You meant to tell me you are voting Johnson to give him 1.000001% and to stick to your principles? Go for it. That "base" is negligible. And "margin of error" does not win an election. Masses of people voting for the same person wins an election. Rand is gathering the "mass" and I thank him for that. If he burns us after getting elected, then we are fucked. But this is the only path to success we have at the moment.

Shocking that some people believe so strongly in their principles that they won't just swallow anything that's put in front of them, isn't it?

I'm done with selecting the lesser between two evils. Since my state doesn't allow write-ins (and it's already a foregone conclusion that the GOP candidate will win no matter who it is) I will just stay home if I don't like any of the choices.

 

[Thor]

Shocking that some people believe so strongly in their principles that they won't just swallow anything that's put in front of them, isn't it?

I'm done with selecting the lesser between two evils. Since my state doesn't allow write-ins (and it's already a foregone conclusion that the GOP candidate will win no matter who it is) I will just stay home if I don't like any of the choices.

I don't view Rand as the lesser of 2 evils. I see it as winning. But if you do, so be it. If you think that you are going to convert 50% of America to libertarianism (small L) in the next 4 year while there is still a chance to turn course of action our country is going down, you are mistaken.

This is the only way to make a difference. Why do you think Ron ran R and not as an L? Rand is just taking it up to the next level and open a bigger tent, to win and institute changes that we want.

If he sells out, then there is no hope. Because "principles" isn't winning in 2016, or any time soon.

 

[Christian Liberty]

So, if the choices comes down to:

• Rand Paul (R)
• Hitlery Clinton (D)
• Gary Johnson (L)

You meant to tell me you are voting Johnson to give him 1.000001% and to stick to your principles? Go for it. That "base" is negligible. And "margin of error" does not win an election. Masses of people voting for the same person wins an election. Rand is gathering the "mass" and I thank him for that. If he burns us after getting elected, then we are fucked. But this is the only path to success we have at the moment.

I don't think Cajun would vote for Johnson either. There was a time when I preferred Gary over Rand but that day is definitely passed us with Johnson's recent interviews and Rand's excellent work in the senate.

Shocking that some people believe so strongly in their principles that they won't just swallow anything that's put in front of them, isn't it?

I'm done with selecting the lesser between two evils. Since my state doesn't allow write-ins (and it's already a foregone conclusion that the GOP candidate will win no matter who it is) I will just stay home if I don't like any of the choices.

Is Rand Paul really an evil though? I don't see how he would make anything any worse, and he could make some things a lot better.

 

[jct74]

maybe this has been brought up earlier in this long ass thread but do we even know for sure that Rand that said "I'm not a libertarian" right after he said “I’m not advocating everyone go out and run around with no clothes on and smoke pot”? This could very well be a case of sloppy reporting or intentionally trying to insert meaning in Rand's words from the Washington Post.

“I’m not advocating everyone go out and run around with no clothes on and smoke pot,” he said. “I’m not a libertarian. I’m a libertarian Republican. I’m a constitutional conservative.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ccb4-b8af-11e2-b94c-b684dda07add_story_1.html

Even if he did really say things in that order, maybe I should be outraged but meh... poor choice of words is a small blemish on his entire body of work.

bump.

do we even know he associated libertarians with running around naked and smoking pot? Or did Washington Post just string two separate sentences together?

 

[Warlord]

I'm not advocating that either and no one is!

Rand is parsing his words and cajun and others are freaking out as usual.

 

[Rudeman]

Not sure what the outrage is, Rand isn't a libertarian, never claimed to be one.


Or are people upset he doesn't advocate that people run around naked while smoking pot?

 

[cajuncocoa]

I don't view Rand as the lesser of 2 evils. I see it as winning. But if you do, so be it. If you think that you are going to convert 50% of America to libertarianism (small L) in the next 4 year while there is still a chance to turn course of action our country is going down, you are mistaken.

This is the only way to make a difference. Why do you think Ron ran R and not as an L? Rand is just taking it up to the next level and open a bigger tent, to win and institute changes that we want.

If he sells out, then there is no hope. Because "principles" isn't winning in 2016, or any time soon.

I don't think Cajun would vote for Johnson either. There was a time when I preferred Gary over Rand but that day is definitely passed us with Johnson's recent interviews and Rand's excellent work in the senate.



Is Rand Paul really an evil though? I don't see how he would make anything any worse, and he could make some things a lot better.

No, I'm not saying that Rand is evil; just using an expression that means having to choose something that isn't what you really want.

@FreedomFanatic...I don't really like Gary Johnson, but I decided to give him my vote last November in order to grow the LP. Dems and Repubs have had a monopoly on the system for too long.

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Rand is parsing his words and cajun and others are freaking out as usual.

Cajuncocoa and crew have filled this thread with some of the most fake, contrived faux-outrage-for-political-purposes one will ever see.

 

[FrankRep]

No, I'm not saying that Rand is evil; just using an expression that means having to choose something that isn't what you really want.

I want Rand Paul.

 

[erowe1]

Not sure what the outrage is, Rand isn't a libertarian, never claimed to be one.


Or are people upset he doesn't advocate that people run around naked while smoking pot?

It all depends.

If you just proved how stupid it is to be upset for reason #1, then for the next 10 seconds, it will be reason #2 that matters.

If you just proved how stupid it is to be upset for reason #2, then for the next 10 seconds, it will be reason #1 that matters.

 

[Rudeman]

For me it goes Ron Paul> Rand Paul >>>>>> Gary Johnson

And I voted for Gary Johnson, so Rand Paul is a lock for my vote.

 

[supermario21]

This is an outrageous thread. It all depends on what issues you view most important and what frame of reference you use. Heck, Reason kept telling us how Gary Johnson was a much better libertarian than Ron. I don't even see Gary anywhere near as good as Rand.

 

[erowe1]

This is an outrageous thread. It all depends on what issues you view most important and what frame of reference you use. Heck, Reason kept telling us how Gary Johnson was a much better libertarian than Ron. I don't even see Gary anywhere near as good as Rand.

For Reason, the biggest problem with Rand doing this is the fact that he is trying to get any evangelical support at all. From some of the comments in this thread, it looks like that's where a lot of the most zealous detractors are too. Notice references to them as "those people," etc.

 

[supermario21]

For Reason, the biggest problem with Rand doing this is the fact that he is trying to get any evangelical support at all. From some of the comments in this thread, it looks like that's where a lot of the most zealous detractors are too. Notice references to them as "those people," etc.

That's what I can't stand about Reason and even Gary Johnson. They live in their own little bubble and would be happier if the LP continued to plod along with <1% of the vote as long as it remained a club of only people they approved of. I'm sure many of us Paulites here started out as neocons or at least more conventional conservative Republicans. He sold a message to us that no other libertarian type had been able to do. Gary and Reason continue to bash religion and social conservatism and make it like you can't support religion or conservative principles AND liberty. Ron was able to do that. So I sympathize with what Rand is doing. Ron did it without sacrificing the message, and I hope Rand's spreading of the message will not bastardize our core principles. I'm a bit disappointed on drugs but other than that I'm totally fine with what he's doing.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Cajuncocoa and crew have filled this thread with some of the most fake, contrived faux-outrage-for-political- principled purposes one will ever see.

FIFY