Rand Paul: Confederate flag is “inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery”

[Brett85]

And if most people in another state think it needs to be displayed at state capitol buildings, what is that to you? Can different states reach different decisions as to what symbols it will display?.

Sure, I think that it's a state issue.

 

[Brett85]

Do you have a list of "people who are being fined or imprisoned by the government for standing up for their beliefs"? I remember the wedding cake thing, but that's about it. The people refusing service were in their right to do so, IMO.

There are many examples. This is another.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...-who-refuse-to-perform-same-sex-weddings.html

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

So let me get this straight. Slavery in America started in 1619. The civil war started in 1861, a full 242 years later, 85 years as the United States. Slavery exists during the 4 years of the Civil War in the south and it's the confederate flag that symbolizes slavery, when it was under the U.S. flag 20x+ longer? Furthermore, the emancipation proclamation could not have been a cause of the civil war, because it was signed in 1863. The civil war started in 1861.

 

[Brett85]

People have a weird combination of views on this forum: Pro Confederacy and pro gay marriage and pro homosexuality. Do you realize that the Confederacy didn't allow gay marriage and even had laws against sodomy?

 

[LibertyRevolution]

People have a weird combination of views on this forum: Pro Confederacy and pro gay marriage and pro homosexuality. Do you realize that the Confederacy didn't allow gay marriage and even had laws against sodomy?

A lot of us are pro states rights and against the federal government working outside the powers specifically granted to it in the constitution.

The governments job is to protect the rights and freedom of the minority against the will of the majority.
As much as watching gay people makes me uncomfortable, they have every right to be gay, so the government did its job by protecting it.

I just don't think it should have ever been a government issue in the first place...
Neither of those harms others or their property, so there should be no regulation of it at all.

As a libertarian I find myself pro a lot of shit that I wouldn't choose to do myself, but I respect others right to choose to do it..
That is what freedom is. You don't need freedom to fallow the status quo..

 

[RonPaulMall]

The Confederate flag is being upheld as a cultural symbol by its proponents. And the state has no right to endorse their herritage over someone else's. If the Confederate flag is up there, why not fly it right next to the rainbow flag? Or the anarcho-communist flag?

Well, in this specific context it would be because Rainbow Flags or the Anarcho Capitalist Flag have nothing to do with a monument to the most important war in South Carolina's history. This is not some random cultural fad or political principle that is being remembered. It was the most devastating war in American had ever had. The rampaging Union troops but the unfinished capitol building that stands next to the monument to the torch when they entered the city.

 

[Carlybee]

People have a weird combination of views on this forum: Pro Confederacy and pro gay marriage and pro homosexuality. Do you realize that the Confederacy didn't allow gay marriage and even had laws against sodomy?

Why do you continue to allege that just because someone doesn't believe in censoring a flag, that makes them pro-confederacy? The Confederacy is non existent. This is about censorship and future censorship. Seriously get your facts straight. You are trying to imply in a back handed manner that if one chooses to support the flag not being removed they are somehow supporting slavery. Which also no longer exists.

 

[kahless]

Why do you continue to allege that just because someone doesn't believe in censoring a flag, that makes them pro-confederacy? The Confederacy is non existent. This is about censorship and future censorship. Seriously get your facts straight. You are trying to imply in a back handed manner that if one chooses to support the flag not being removed they are somehow supporting slavery. Which also no longer exists.

Never thought I would see the day that much of RPF has turned into what amounts to MSNBC forums if they actually existed.

Sometimes I wonder was there some hidden memo or discussion in the grassroots that came out when Rand started running that people are taking a bit too far or is it simply the national dialog has moved people to be irrational on these issues in the last 8 years I have been coming here.

 

[Brett85]

Why do you continue to allege that just because someone doesn't believe in censoring a flag, that makes them pro-confederacy? The Confederacy is non existent. This is about censorship and future censorship. Seriously get your facts straight. You are trying to imply in a back handed manner that if one chooses to support the flag not being removed they are somehow supporting slavery. Which also no longer exists.

I don't really care about the flag and whether it should be flown. Since I don't care about the issue I don't have a problem with Rand saying that it shouldn't be flown in state capitol buildings. It was the smart thing to say. Individual citizens can still fly the flag if they want to.

 

[Carlybee]

I don't really care about the flag and whether it should be flown. Since I don't care about the issue I don't have a problem with Rand saying that it shouldn't be flown in state capitol buildings. It was the smart thing to say. Individual citizens can still fly the flag if they want to.

Really? You think it's going to stop at state buildings? They want to dig up graves and they are rebranding toys. Toys. Yours is a naive viewpoint and Rand's is politically expedient. However, let it play out until they start rewriting the history books and burn the old ones.

 

[hells_unicorn]

People have a weird combination of views on this forum: Pro Confederacy and pro gay marriage and pro homosexuality. Do you realize that the Confederacy didn't allow gay marriage and even had laws against sodomy?

Uh, where did I ever give you the impression that I was in favor of disease spreading sodomites parading around as though they were married? I sure can't remember ever saying that.

 

[Origanalist]

I don't really care about the flag and whether it should be flown. Since I don't care about the issue I don't have a problem with Rand saying that it shouldn't be flown in state capitol buildings. It was the smart thing to say. Individual citizens can still fly the flag if they want to.

What did your RPF name used to be?

 

[Brett85]

What did your RPF name used to be?

Traditional Conservative. I changed it because I don't agree with today's conservatives on issues like foreign policy and drug policy and don't want to be confused with them.

 

[Origanalist]

Traditional Conservative. I changed it because I don't agree with today's conservatives on issues like foreign policy and drug policy and don't want to be confused with them.

Me either. The changing meaning of words......

 

[Aratus]

i can't blame Brett85 at all because Conservatism runs the political spectrum from Edmund Burke's High Tory defense of the monarchy
as an institution in the late 1800s to several of Mitt Romney's stances that are actually to Edward Moore Kennedy's right that aren't too
contradictory. Even basic words change over time. A liberal in FDR's day is not to be confused with a classic Liberal in economics circa
the time of Edmund Burke. As the flag controversy erupted, the phrase "halcyon days of yore" came to the surface of my Id as I wished
we could do a repeat of 2oo8 or 2o12 but without the horrid baggage. The TIME Op~Ed piece is a game changer, yes! I am unoriginal often!

 

[phill4paul]

Another Confederate flag taken down. This time at a frikken Civil War historical site!

Fort Sumter furls its Confederate flags, probably forever

For more than 40 years, Fort Sumter has flown six flags, including four banners that flew overhead during the four years of America’s Civil War.

But the recent slayings of nine black parishioners during a Bible study inside the Emanuel AME Church prompted the fort to take down four of those flags, including two flags of the Confederacy, as a gesture of sympathy and sensitivity.

The suspect being held in the shooting reportedly said he hoped to start a race war, and his actions have prompted South Carolina, other Southern states and the nation to re-evaluate policies regarding public displays of the Confederate flag.

Tim Stone, superintendent of the Fort Sumter-Fort Moultrie National Monument, said Fort Sumter’s four flags were lowered the day after the shooting.

“The tragedy has made all of us re-evaluate our role in the community and in the nation,” he said.

On Thursday, the National Park Service, which runs the fort, issued a directive to remove Confederate flag items such as banners, belt buckles and other souvenirs from its gift shops, though books, DVDs and other materials showing the flag in a historical context may remain for sale.

On the same day, the Park Service also instructed its parks and related sites to not fly flags other than the U.S. flag and respective state flags outside their historic context.

Kathy Kupper, a spokeswoman for the National Park Service, said the new policy removes the Confederate flag from visitors centers and the like, but not from re-enactments, living history programs or battlefield sites where the flag marks historical troop positions.

Stone said the fort’s wayside markers explaining the history behind the fort’s various flags will remain, “but we probably won’t be re-raising them per the director’s policy.”

The removed flags include the first and second national flags of the Confederate States of America as well as two earlier versions of the U.S. flag. Stone said the four banners had historical ties to the fort, which was surrendered by Union forces in 1861 as the war began but retaken by them as the war wound to an end.

The series of flags were first raised in 1972, and Stone said they brought few complaints. “There was on occasion some comment of why we were flying the Confederate flags,” he said. “We explained the historical context of that.”

But Stone said he grew more sympathetic to concerns about the flags when he noted some boaters entering Charleston Harbor would pass by them without any interpretation explaining why they were there.

“I think that concern has some legitimacy, and we need to be sensitive to the community and the American people,” he said. “I hadn’t thought of it in that perspective.”

Stone said it is unclear what will become of the four flagpoles that were improved as recently as 2007 in preparation for the Civil War’s sesquicentennial but now no longer serve a purpose.

“A lot of this is happening very quickly,” he said.

http://www.postandcourier.com/artic...-furls-its-confederate-flags-probably-forever

 

[Southron]

Another Confederate flag taken down. This time at a frikken Civil War historical site!



http://www.postandcourier.com/artic...-furls-its-confederate-flags-probably-forever

Fort Sumter of all places...sheesh.

 

[Philadelphia76]

Smart move by Rand IMHO. I don't see how he had any other reasonable choice- especially in-light of the Civil Rights Act controversy a few years back (as mentioned by a few).

Personally- as a Southerner (South Carolina-based) I am very proud of my 4 ancestors (including 2 in the famed 15th Alabama) who fought for the Confederacy. I just purchased a hand-sewn Confederate battle flag to fold neatly and stow away with various artifacts (uniforms, bowie knife, buttons, belt-buckles, etc.) and "unit histories" and service records for all of them. I will of course in my own way try to educate my nephew and nieces (as well as any children I may have) about the true history of the Confederacy and the Civil War, etc.

That said- I DO think it is time to shift the Confederacy to "history"/museums (as well as private collections)- where it might just over time actually be treated more fairly- and out of the "modern vernacular" where it is too often abused/misrepresented by sickos and used as a "lightning rod" issue by the superficial media. Additionally- though every company is free to do what they choose (including the company I bought my Confederate flag from of course)- on the whole I've never been a huge fan of the "commercialization" of the Confederate flag to begin with. Fewer patches, trucker caps, lunch boxes, mouse pads, etc. with its depiction the better IMHO. There has to be a better way to honor the sacrifice/struggle beyond just some "Hey man- I'm a rebel!!!" type statement via merchandise.

 

[Sam I am]

So let me get this straight. Slavery in America started in 1619. The civil war started in 1861, a full 242 years later, 85 years as the United States. Slavery exists during the 4 years of the Civil War in the south and it's the confederate flag that symbolizes slavery, when it was under the U.S. flag 20x+ longer? Furthermore, the emancipation proclamation could not have been a cause of the civil war, because it was signed in 1863. The civil war started in 1861.

If you feel like mincing numbers like that then here's one. Slavery has been illegal in the United States for an infinity longer time than it's been illegal in the confederacy.

 

[AuH20]

I don't really care about the flag and whether it should be flown. Since I don't care about the issue I don't have a problem with Rand saying that it shouldn't be flown in state capitol buildings. It was the smart thing to say. Individual citizens can still fly the flag if they want to.

For how long will that be the case?