Rand Paul Challenges Bernie Sanders To Hour-Long Debate On Socialism vs. Capitalism

[nasaal]

I wouldn't discount it... CNN picked up the story.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/13/politics/rand-paul-bernie-sanders-debate-challenge/

I love how the article labels then as the extremes of their parties. They appear to more be the ideological actuality of their parties while instead their parties hover in some region of ideological..... Nothing... Ness.

 

[moraha]

Some of these responses.... I don't.... What has happened to this place? We all clearly disagree with Sanders on the role of society and the individual. We disagree with him on whether civil liberties are individual, or whether they are granted by society as it changes.

We are very passionate about our beliefs. Sanders is one of the people who really believes what he says though! One of the few willing to say things that he knows will piss people off because he means it.

Why are we talking about him like he's a dementia having old psychopath? I just can't believe the responses. /rant

I'm not sure what you're upset about though. The main reason people want this debate is because the young voters need to see that Bernie's views don't work, regardless of whether Bernie is passionate about them or not. A TON of Ron's supporters went to Bernie which is very ridiculous (and makes no sense at all) so Rand debating him and showing that his domestic views are wrong should win most of them back. The young voters are what got Obama the presidency.

 

[nasaal]

Uhm because the beliefs he is passionate about involve stealing from others and violating our inherent rights?
Sounds like a psychopath to me.

And you sound like a psychopath to everyone not in this niche group for holding that dogmatic of a distinction.

People like Sanders do not view it in those terms. I agree that the end result is what you say, but the man isn't crazy. He's of a vastly different point of view.

 

[nasaal]

I'm not sure what you're upset about though. The main reason people want this debate is because the young voters need to see that Bernie's views don't work, regardless of whether Bernie is passionate about them or not. A TON of Ron's supporters went to Bernie which is very ridiculous (and makes no sense at all) so Rand debating him and showing that his domestic views are wrong should win most of them back. The young voters are what got Obama the presidency.

A debate between paleo-conservative vs socialistic ideals will not in any way drag people in any meaningful numbers away from Sanders or Rand. People left from Ron to Sanders because Sanders became the candidate that was more honest than the rest. The one who believed in what he says. That's it. Do you think that those people who were fans on Ron Paul just conveniently failed to notice that his son was running for president?

Rightfully or wrongly Rand did not inherit the supporters with 100% success. This debate will not change it.

The great thing about the idea of this debate is that it would really be a debate! Real ideologies being debated by men who may actually believe them. And it isn't a college debate. It is between people who are well known by the nation in which they debate! I would give anything to see those 2 men win the nomination of their parties.

 

[CaptUSA]

"Senator Paul, why would you rather let this single mom with three kids working 83 hours a day die of brain cancer just because she can't afford health insurance?"

"Senator Paul, why would you rather give the 1% a tax cut instead of paying for working class kids go to college and get their degrees?"

"Senator Paul, why do you want to eliminate funding for wonderful organizations like Planned Parenthood which provide tens of millions of women with the essential healthcare they need to keep their legs open?"

"Senator Paul, why do you want to stop sending foreign aid to Africa? Why do you want children to starve and die of AIDS?"

The easiest way to answer all of these is with a single Bastiat quote:

Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.

 

[specsaregood]

And you sound like a psychopath to everyone not in this niche group for holding that dogmatic of a distinction.
People like Sanders do not view it in those terms. I agree that the end result is what you say, but the man isn't crazy. He's of a vastly different point of view.

psy·cho·path.
NOUN
1.a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior.

informal: an unstable and aggressive person:

I see nothing I said that appears to be an abnormal, violent, unstable, violent or aggressive. So anybody that thinks I sound like a psychopath for stating the facts doesn't understand the meaning of the word. Whereas Bernie's ideology is all about violence and aggression.

 

[nasaal]

I see nothing I said that appears to be an abnormal, violent, unstable, violent or aggressive. So anybody that thinks I sound like a psychopath for stating the facts doesn't understand the meaning of the word. Whereas Bernie's ideology is all about violence and aggression.

No. It isn't. The end result due to coercion, sure. His actual belief however isn't. Making him no more a psychopath than you. If you can't separate that.... Well. That's probably why a lot of outsiders don't like us. We call socialists psychopaths because their world view is in contrast.

 

[specsaregood]

No. It isn't. The end result due to coercion, sure. His actual belief however isn't. Making him no more a psychopath than you. If you can't separate that.... Well. That's probably why a lot of outsiders don't like us. We call socialists psychopaths because their world view is in contrast.

Ok, then please explain his actual belief then if it isn't that he should be able to steal my goods and give them to other people, or restrict my choices.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

"Senator Paul, why would you rather let this single mom with three kids working 83 hours a day die of brain cancer just because she can't afford health insurance?"

"Senator Paul, why would you rather give the 1% a tax cut instead of paying for working class kids go to college and get their degrees?"

"Senator Paul, why do you want to eliminate funding for wonderful organizations like Planned Parenthood which provide tens of millions of women with the essential healthcare they need to keep their legs open?"

"Senator Paul, why do you want to stop sending foreign aid to Africa? Why do you want children to starve and die of AIDS?"

The tougher questions would be military, police, social security, medicare, and public schools. Because Rand supports those and would have to thread a needle if he's going to take a capitalist versus socialist position.

 

[nasaal]

Ok, then please explain his actual belief then if it isn't that he should be able to steal my goods and give them to other people, or restrict my choices.

In your view and my view it is stealing. In their view it is the role of society/government to provide these things. That society collectively owns the resources, as opposed to the individual. In ideology it isn't theft. It is a matter of perspective. It starts with your belief as to the fundamental role of government and society, and also the nature of resource ownership and responsibility.

I share your perspective. Others do not. That doesn't make it evil. It makes it wrong in our view. We vote for our view. They vote for theirs. Calling them violent and aggressive for their vote of the world will never help to bring them into our cause. Never.

 

[The Gold Standard]

In your view and my view it is stealing. In their view it is the role of society/government to provide these things. That society collectively owns the resources, as opposed to the individual. In ideology it isn't theft. It is a matter of perspective. It starts with your belief as to the fundamental role of government and society, and also the nature of resource ownership and responsibility.

I share your perspective. Others do not. That doesn't make it evil. It makes it wrong in our view. We vote for our view. They vote for theirs. Calling them violent and aggressive for their vote of the world will never help to bring them into our cause. Never.

If they believe society owns property and individuals don't, then you will never bring them to "our cause", whatever that may be.

 

[erowe1]

We need to spread this idea among Bernie supporters and get them to like it.

 

[erowe1]

The thing is, does Bernie really like to call himself a socialist? Is he still embracing that label while running for president?

 

[Occam's Banana]

In your view and my view it is stealing. In their view it is the role of society/government to provide these things. That society collectively owns the resources, as opposed to the individual. In ideology it isn't theft. It is a matter of perspective. It starts with your belief as to the fundamental role of government and society, and also the nature of resource ownership and responsibility.

I share your perspective. Others do not. That doesn't make it evil. It makes it wrong in our view. We vote for our view. They vote for theirs. Calling them violent and aggressive for their vote of the world will never help to bring them into our cause. Never.

Nonsense. It IS stealing. And using government force to steal IS violent and aggressive. Period.

The fact that Sanders & his followers refuse to think of it that way does not change that fact.

(You could say exactly the same sort of things about Adolf Hitler. I am sure he thought he was a "good guy," too. He wasn't. Neither is Bernie Sanders - no matter how "honest" or "genuine" he may be ...)

 

[nasaal]

I've known more than a couple who started out being socialists by their own definition and ended up at least fairly conservative.

 

[ds21089]

The thing is, does Bernie really like to call himself a socialist? Is he still embracing that label while running for president?

"Democratic Socialist"

 

[erowe1]

This debate would be a great means for the DNC to finally sink the Sanders ship and rally all democratic voters behind Hillary.

Old nutjob Bernie would get his ass handed to him.

But in the eyes of Democrat primary voters, he could well win support rather than lose it, while at the same time Rand would win support from Republican primary voters.

 

[erowe1]

"Democratic Socialist"

Can you find him embracing that label in his presidential campaign? His website seems to avoid it pretty scrupulously as far as I can see.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Can you find him embracing that label in his presidential campaign? His website seems to avoid it pretty scrupulously as far as I can see.

He devoted several minutes in the first DNC debate defending the label, likening it to Denmark and other northern European countries.

 

[ds21089]

Can you find him embracing that label in his presidential campaign? His website seems to avoid it pretty scrupulously as far as I can see.