Rand on immigration w/Norquist-Bloomberg 6/11

[francisco]

He's quite right about the word "amnesty."

That semantic knot's got to be disentangled.

...not unlike the term "isolationist."

+1

 

[RandallFan]

Rand Paul needs Pat Buchanan voters. They are jumping ship. They will vote for Allen West or Ted Cruz even if the foreign policy is bad. First a Cruz or a West need congress to help them start a war.

Cruz isn't going to support an immigration deal with Obama and Norquist.

Mitch McConnell is not going to let immigration reform pass if he wants to beat Grimes.

Grover Norquist bashed McDaniel, bashed Jack Kingston and implied Cochran was not a bad guy on Ingraham's show.

Ingraham still defends Rand because all the other candidates are terrible. She also bashes Mike Lee and Cruz on STEM visas.

 

[idiom]

Stop calling them illegals or immigrants. People have strong feelings either way on those terms. Half the country is sympathetic to the term.

Call them Queue Jumpers.

Everyone hates Queue jumpers.

Makes the thought of sending them all to the back of the line to wait their turn completely palatable.

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

"Line jumpers" would be better, since this is America and not England. Let's leave the foreign colloquialisms to Canada Ted.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Ron Paul had a lot of (donor) support from paleo-conservatives, paleo-libertarians, libertarians, minarchists and run of the mill Americans that were opposed to increased immigration. It seems that Rand has calculated that possibly losing them as supporters is more than offset by new support from the US Chamber of Commerce, Zuckerberg and beltway libertarians. He may be right. There is a lot of money to be had from those groups.

Minarchists can't be opposed to immigration, otherwise they'd be something other than minarchists.

 

[P3ter_Griffin]

Minarchists can't be opposed to immigration, otherwise they'd be something other than minarchists.

I'd say the same about libertarians. Whose rights does an immigrant violate which requires the state to violate the NAP, "defensively"? Not directed at you Feeding, I know your on the good side.

 

[Brett85]

Rand Paul needs Pat Buchanan voters. They are jumping ship. They will vote for Allen West or Ted Cruz even if the foreign policy is bad. First a Cruz or a West need congress to help them start a war.

Why would any Pat Buchanan voter support Cruz? Cruz's position on immigration is almost identical to Rand's. The only difference is that he just doesn't talk about it as much. He supports expanding legal immigration and supports granting work VISA's to the 12 million people who are here illegally.

 

[William R]

Rand is finished!!!! What an idiot

 

[William R]

Go to Drudge

 

[Brett85]

Go to Drudge

Well, it's a stupid headline, because the position that he outlined on immigration today isn't any different from what he's said previously.

 

[supermario21]

The paleocons are probably the worst on immigration because they're flat out calling for essentially closing the border and banning all immigration except from Europe. Not only is that a really dumb policy, it also is extremely easy to see as racist. Pat Buchanan just wrote an article calling for that a week or two ago. I like Laura and Pat and value them on many issues, especially foreign policy, but their position on immigration is downright toxic.

 

[Brett85]

I don't really think it hurts Rand that much with GOP voters to take this position, but why is he emphasizing it so much? I can't understand the logic in that. He should just state his position but then focus and concentrate on issues that the Republican base agrees with him on.

 

[RonPaulMall]

I don't really think it hurts Rand that much with GOP voters to take this position, but why is he emphasizing it so much? I can't understand the logic in that. He should just state his position but then focus and concentrate on issues that the Republican base agrees with him on.

I'm hard pressed to think of many things Rand could do that would hurt him more with GOP voters then to come out in favor of the Bloomberg and Norquist conception of "Immigration Reform", especially right now. I don't know, I guess saying Israel has no right to exist? Coming out for Obamacare? The second amendment isn't a personal right? Those would all probably be worse, but this is pretty devastating.

 

[Brett85]

I'm hard pressed to think of many things Rand could do that would hurt him more with GOP voters then to come out in favor of the Bloomberg and Norquist conception of "Immigration Reform", especially right now. I don't know, I guess saying Israel has no right to exist? Coming out for Obamacare? The second amendment isn't a personal right? Those would all probably be worse, but this is pretty devastating.

The polls show that even a majority of Republican voters are in favor of some type of immigration reform and oppose deportation. So no, it's certainly not the same as supporting Obamacare or being extremely anti Israel. But I think he's running the risk of focusing too much on the issue at the expense of other issues. Rubio lost support in the polls because he was spending so much time on the issue and making it a priority, not simply because of his position on the issue.

 

[RandallFan]

Dave Brat's smartest move was missing his meeting with Norquist a month ago.

 

[RandallFan]

Why would any Pat Buchanan voter support Cruz? Cruz's position on immigration is almost identical to Rand's. The only difference is that he just doesn't talk about it as much. He supports expanding legal immigration and supports granting work VISA's to the 12 million people who are here illegally.

The tidal wave of Dreamers across the border has allowed Cruz to move back to the right and act compassionate at the same time.

Allen West and others will be inclined to run after what happened to Cantor.

No one cares about STEM visas if Obama will veto it. Obama doesn't want to break the immigration coalition.

They are not going to get an immigration increase alone past the Democrats because they want a timeline on when 12 million undocumented Democrats get to vote. Jeff Sessions and other sensible Republicans will also attack STEM visas with Berni Sanders and maybe a Sherrod Brown.

I dont think anyone except Rand Paul or Pete King are advocating doing immigration reform soon.

 

[RonPaulMall]

The polls show that even a majority of Republican voters are in favor of some type of immigration reform and oppose deportation. So no, it's certainly not the same as supporting Obamacare or being extremely anti Israel. But I think he's running the risk of focusing too much on the issue at the expense of other issues. Rubio lost support in the polls because he was spending so much time on the issue and making it a priority, not simply because of his position on the issue.

But the immigration reform they support is securing the border and most important, no amnesty. Maybe it is just incompetence, but Rand isn't giving anybody on the right the impression that's what he believes in. How does Rand's position differ from Eric Cantor? How does it differ from Lindsey Graham? Why at a time when the Obama administration is creating a humanitarian crisis by pretty much throwing up their hands in terms of enforcement and basically promising any underage kid that if they can get to America they earn a free Green Card is Rand Paul playing footsie with Bloomberg and the Pro-Amnesty Crowd rather than denouncing the President?

I voted for Ron twice and was a supporter of Rand up until now, in my view Rand just Cooched himself.

 

[Brett85]

But the immigration reform they support is securing the border and most important, no amnesty.

I'm not sure how you define amnesty, because these polls show that the majority of the Republicans support some form of legalization, either work VISA's or a path to citizenship. A lot of people consider any type of legalization to be amnesty.

 

[supermario21]

I don't know how Rand will ever vote for immigration reform as written by the gang of 8. Biometric ID's, militarized border fences, and the absence of unlimited worker caps are all big no's for Rand. In many cases Rand's immigration stances are even more open/libertarian because he wants illegal immigrants to get right in line rather than pay a fine even.

 

[RandallFan]

The polls have up to 10 pre-conditions. None of them ask, Do you support doubling legal immigration which most oppose if you only ask that question.

The border is secure.
There is no wave of illegals.
There are catching 90 or 99% of the illegals crossing the border.
There is E-Verify.
There is entry exit system. (I thought that was law)
They are deporting fraudsters.



The thing is Rand probably supports much of this before giving a single work permit but when he hangs out with Norquist(who Brat shunned ironically), he looks bad.


Even Jeff Flake opposed amnesty to win his primary. Now he is the most hated after McCain.

Would Walter Jones have won if he went and met with Norquist on immigration?

Ratcliffe supported locking up illegals and he beat the other guy. 2 incumbents beaten. Both ran to the right on immigration. He boasted about catching hundreds of illegals in a some sort of fraud.