Rand got less than half the votes than Ron got

[Peace&Freedom]

- lack of fundraising effort (which led to many inabilities, including a winning narrative)
- sloppy messaging
- taking the base for granted while trying to expand the base
- not keeping up relationships with the grassroots

Those are the highlights.

Paul did not really try to expand the base. Where was his effective outreach to Christian conservatives? They are deeply disaffected because the GOP has failed to deliver on the social/cultural agenda. Where was his effective outreach to Tea Party populists? They are deeply disaffected because the GOP has failed to deliver on fiscal/economic issues. The frustration that created the anti-establishment wave exists for a reason.

When did Rand demonstrate he understood this dynamic, or embrace it? When did he consistently indicate he had the bearing or backbone to push back against the media's relentless establishment, status quo or PC framing of issues? We can point to his fundraising woes, but that's a function of his not pleasing a large fragment of his father's supporters, and not really reaching out to or attracting the groups identified above.

 

[thoughtomator]

Paul did not really try to expand the base. Where was his effective outreach to Christian conservatives? They are deeply disaffected because the GOP has failed to deliver on the social/cultural agenda. Where was his effective outreach to Tea Party populists? They are deeply disaffected because the GOP has failed to deliver on fiscal/economic issues. The frustration that created the anti-establishment wave exists for a reason.

When did Rand demonstrate he understood this dynamic, or embrace it? When did he consistently indicate he had the bearing or backbone to push back against the media's relentless establishment, status quo or PC framing of issues? We can point to his fundraising woes, but that's a function of his not pleasing a large fragment of his father's supporters, and not really reaching out to or attracting the groups identified above.

Not only was there no effective outreach to the coalition members we need to move the ball forward, but Rand was genuinely hostile to them, which he revealed in his "Republicans becoming the party of old white men" comment that could have come right from a DNC press office.

Rand fucked us, and the sooner we come to grips with that the sooner we can get this train back on the tracks.

 

[Matt Collins]

Paul did not really try to expand the base. Where was his effective outreach to Christian conservatives? They are deeply disaffected because the GOP has failed to deliver on the social/cultural agenda. Where was his effective outreach to Tea Party populists?

He did make some in roads there, but in both categories there were other candidates who better represented the views of those voters. The problem was that in trying to reach out to others he ignored (and in some cases actively alienated) thus losing his base of core supporters.

 

[thoughtomator]

He did make some in roads there, but in both categories there were other candidates who better represented the views of those voters. The problem was that in trying to reach out to others he ignored (and in some cases actively alienated) thus losing his base of core supporters.

It's not "in some cases", Matt. It was the central element of his strategy to alienate us. I'm still blown away that he didn't have Ron on the campaign trail rallying the troops the entire time.

It has me wondering, did the establishment finally find something they could threaten the Pauls with to make them run the liberty movement into the ditch? The movement could not have collapsed faster than it did in the past four years while we were hoping that the quitter Rand would be our standard-bearer.

It has been an unmitigated disaster for us, and we have every right to be pissed as all holy hell about it.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Not only was there no effective outreach to the coalition members we need to move the ball forward, but Rand was genuinely hostile to them, which he revealed in his "Republicans becoming the party of old white men" comment that could have come right from a DNC press office.

Rand fucked us, and the sooner we come to grips with that the sooner we can get this train back on the tracks.

Analysis does not require name calling or personal attacks.

 

[thoughtomator]

Analysis does not require name calling or personal attacks.

I'm attacking Rand's complete failure as a public figure and liberty movement leader, not his personal attributes.

If name calling or personal attacks is a problem here, I got a list of Dungeons & Liberty players whose posts you ought to review. There are several people here who have done nothing at all BUT call names and launch personal attack after personal attack for the past week solid without respite.

Shall I compile them for you? If I said that the behavior I and others have been subject to by these people was outrageous, it would be an extreme understatement.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I'm attacking Rand's complete failure as a public figure and liberty movement leader, not his personal attributes.

These are the Ron Paul and Rand Paul forums. Attacking them is different than users being uncivil to each other (which they shouldn't be). Rand is probably not happy about how things turned out. He did what he thought was right. He was not doing things to "fuck" supporters. You may disagree with strategies, tactics or positions, but those were his choices for his campaign.

Feel free to report posts that violate forum guidelines. Thanks.

 

[Matt Collins]

I'm still blown away that he didn't have Ron on the campaign trail rallying the troops the entire time.

That would have hurt him. It is not enough just to have the liberty voters, we must expand the base outside of that if we are to win. The trick is to expand the base while not ignoring it.

It has me wondering, did the establishment finally find something they could threaten the Pauls with to make them run the liberty movement into the ditch?

No, don't be asinine. Rand was trying to not repeat the mistakes of Ron, but unfortunately he overcompensated for it. Also the political environment was not in his favor this year due to Trump.

It has been an unmitigated disaster for us, and we have every right to be pissed as all holy hell about it.

You'll get no disagreement from me on that.

 

[thoughtomator]

That would have hurt him. It is not enough just to have the liberty voters, we must expand the base outside of that if we are to win. The trick is to expand the base while not ignoring it.



No, don't be asinine. Rand was trying to not repeat the mistakes of Ron, but unfortunately he overcompensated for it. Also the political environment was not in his favor this year due to Trump.



You'll get no disagreement from me on that.

OK we're definitely getting closer here.

I'm going to argue with the 2nd assertion though. I think what Trump is revealing is that this was the perfect political environment for Rand, if Rand had given a sane voice to the concerns of the huge mass of voters who are voting for Trump. That was our target market, the disaffecteds, those getting the Great Society shoved up our asses. These were the people who could have made our modest movement into a leading one.

I mean, representing people is in the job description. If Rand didn't know these people were out there waiting for a voice for their wholly legitimate concerns, their petition for redress of grievance, then he's got a terminal case of DC disease.

I knew they were out there. I knew our hopes of success rested on them (and continue to do so).

All their energy, passion, and money was there to be had for the candidate who wanted to represent them. Rand didn't.

 

[AuH20]

OK we're definitely getting closer here.

I'm going to argue with the 2nd assertion though. I think what Trump is revealing is that this was the perfect political environment for Rand, if Rand had given a sane voice to the concerns of the huge mass of voters who are voting for Trump. That was our target market, the disaffecteds, those getting the Great Society shoved up our asses. These were the people who could have made our modest movement into a leading one.

I mean, representing people is in the job description. If Rand didn't know these people were out there waiting for a voice for their wholly legitimate concerns, their petition for redress of grievance, then he's got a terminal case of DC disease.

I knew they were out there. I knew our hopes of success rested on them (and continue to do so).

All their energy, passion, and money was there to be had for the candidate who wanted to represent them. Rand didn't.

The people who drove the Randslide in Kentucky are the same type of individuals propelling the Trump bus at the moment.

 

[thoughtomator]

The people who drove the Randslide in Kentucky are the same type of individuals propelling the Trump bus at the moment.

Yes exactly. Trump's present base was our target market, stolen right out from under us.

 

[cajuncocoa]

The people who drove the Randslide in Kentucky are the same type of individuals propelling the Trump bus at the moment.

I certainly hope this is wrong. But at the same time, I do realize that Trump's base mirrors the GOP perfectly (whether Mittens likes it or not.) It's basically why I want nothing else to do with them.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

I'm attacking Rand's complete failure as a public figure and liberty movement leader, not his personal attributes.

If name calling or personal attacks is a problem here, I got a list of Dungeons & Liberty players whose posts you ought to review. There are several people here who have done nothing at all BUT call names and launch personal attack after personal attack for the past week solid without respite.

Shall I compile them for you? If I said that the behavior I and others have been subject to by these people was outrageous, it would be an extreme understatement.

Yeah well you are wrong about what happened with Rand. It can all be blamed on the MEDIA!! I don't know how many times it takes to get all of you to focus on the true demon here. Without media mentions the base will not grow no matter how many "right" decisions you make. Trump is getting tons of media mentions and that's why his base is growing. If he were crippled by the media as Rand and Ron were he'd been out of the race long ago. Rand could not have done ANYTHING to negate the fact that the media did not cover him in a serious manner and that's likely to NEVER change (we've had 3 attempts to change it and no luck so far). The media are whores for the establishment and you will never get anti-establishment coverage from them. Trump sounds anti-establishment but the future will show that he is anything but...

 

[thoughtomator]

The media did not make Rand's key strategic choices for him. He made those choices himself.

He made the choice to sequester the leader of the liberty movement.

He made the choice to not rally the faithful in support of his campaign.

He made the choice to go weasel on some key issues and undermine his own standing as the alternative to the establishment.

Rand made these choices. The media did not. The media was a fixed element in all of this, they behave exactly as they always do. Their behavior was not a variable in the equation.

If liberty is about responsibility, then anyone who believes in it has to hold Rand responsible for the choices that created this outcome.

 

[phill4paul]

Yeah well you are wrong about what happened with Rand. It can all be blamed on the MEDIA!! I don't know how many times it takes to get all of you to focus on the true demon here. Without media mentions the base will not grow no matter how many "right" decisions you make. Trump is getting tons of media mentions and that's why his base is growing. If he were crippled by the media as Rand and Ron were he'd been out of the race long ago. Rand could not have done ANYTHING to negate the fact that the media did not cover him in a serious manner and that's likely to NEVER change (we've had 3 attempts to change it and no luck so far). The media are whores for the establishment and you will never get anti-establishment coverage from them. Trump sounds anti-establishment but the future will show that he is anything but...

There hasn't been a single day of Trump Black This Out. Instead there is only brand repetition. Trump. Trump. Trump.

 

[thoughtomator]

There hasn't been a single day of Trump Black This Out. Instead there is only brand repetition. Trump. Trump. Trump.

Can't black out a household name and top national celebrity. Plenty of character assassination and reputation destruction though, and we're familiar with those things from what we witnessed they did to Ron Paul.

It is quite possible that someone like Trump is the only option that we the people have to break the shadow government's stranglehold on us. They've got everything rigged for a straight player to fail.

 

[Matt Collins]

OK we're definitely getting closer here.

I'm going to argue with the 2nd assertion though. I think what Trump is revealing is that this was the perfect political environment for Rand, if Rand had given a sane voice to the concerns of the huge mass of voters who are voting for Trump.

No because Rand's personality cannot compete with Trump's personality (and pockets).

Yes A lot of Trump's people are also Rand's people, but Trump is louder and better appeals to them if for nothing else than personality.

 

[Matt Collins]

The people who drove the Randslide in Kentucky are the same type of individuals propelling the Trump bus at the moment.

Yes but given the choice they will choose Trump because he taps into their raw emotion much better than Rand does.

 

[Matt Collins]

If liberty is about responsibility, then anyone who believes in it has to hold Rand responsible for the choices that created this outcome.

Bingo.... unfortunately.

 

[thoughtomator]

Yes but given the choice they will choose Trump because he taps into their raw emotion much better than Rand does.

Rand had years to capture their imagination and rally them. He spent that time sucking up to the establishment to become acceptable to them, I presume in exchange for the expectation of more favorable media and/or material support which was never going to happen. He capitulated and got nothing for us in exchange.