well Gunny, it appears those Patriots holed up in Oregon don't need you or OK.
Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time
- Thread starter tod evans
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well Gunny, it appears those Patriots holed up in Oregon don't need you or OK.
phill4paul
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Thanks for that insight! +1
GunnyFreedom
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Because I'm not a patriot amirite?
no need to go there.
The fact these guys don't follow the rules of engagement in OK eyes, and possibly the Constitution, doesn't diminish their efforts. You have made your valid reasons for not going, and it follows OK mission statement, so i will apologize for any insults, that were actually veiled, but none-the-less taken as insults by you, but not directly at you...
And yes, those guys out there are PATRIOTS in my opinion, and i'm sure many others across this nation feel the same way.
GunnyFreedom
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I totally agree that they are patriots, I just wish they would have coordinated with the Oregon militias and done this without ignoring state sovereignty. Chances are if they had done that, a much better op would have emerged....like a direct security op for the people who are having their land taken for this stupid "monument."
phill4paul
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I've yet to hear any of the militia groups say that they would leave Bundy out to dry. While not supportive, even chagrined, over the Op without consideration all have said that the there will be no "free Waco's."
GunnyFreedom
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I totally agree with him, and with his characterization of it too. Just from a purely logical standpoint it parses correctly. There is nothing, literally nothing that the Bundys could do right now to trigger a wider conflict. The feds, however, could totally trigger a wider conflict by going all Janet Reno. The problem...for both sides...is that such a civil war would largely not be sectioned geographically. The patriots would neither have a solid base of operations nor the potential for secession. The loyalists would have no safe areas and no way to tell friend from foe. It would be a bloody nightmare for both sides.
i'm 8 hours drive from there.
''the blood of patriots and tyrants''
that tree is getting pretty thirsty.
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phill4paul
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So what is stopping you? At the most that's less than $60 in gas. You could be the RPF's member on the scene. Giving us behind the scene info. If they were 8 hrs. from me I'd drive out to see what was going on. I'd even buy some groceries to take with me. Do you want to start a chip in? I'd throw $10 your way.
nah..ima coward, and the sight of blood makes me pass out. I could make some sammitches and send my wife down there with them.
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Schifference
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Is distance or gas expense what is stopping you?
phill4paul
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Many equations. 38 hrs. travel one way with a relief driver. $300 gas one way/ $600 round trip. Lost jobs and income. I could probably swing all jobs to March after the end of the next week and take the hit if I did a draw against my life insurance to make sure the ole lady was taken care of through the winter. Cold weather gear. I'm not really set for cold winter tactics, but could probably get by with layer upon layer. Food. Ammo, I'd take what I got. But, not enough for a sustained engagement in case I decided to stay. Food. I'd give it a go with the right funding. I'd really have to sit down and figure it out, monetarily.
8 hrs. from me is one thing. The other side of the nation in a different climate zone is something else entirely. If they had occupied a Wildlife HQ in Virginia, S.C. or Tenn. then I'd probably already went out there to just see what was up. /shrug.
phill4paul
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It's not something I really worry about. If some do I can see their point. It seems these Patriots have no need for op/sec with regards to their identity. I have none myself.
nobody's_hero
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That vid is worth sharing. If you haven't watched it yet, you're missing out.
43,000 views, over 900 likes and 21 dislikes. It tells me that people are supportive of the cause even if not the methods, which gives me some hope.
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phill4paul
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At the least Rand can argue against "mandatory minimums" and that being the whole issue in this situation. Non violent crime. Judge thought the mandatory was egregious in this instance.
Schifference
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Guy reminds me of Ron when he speaks.
Anti Federalist
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Exclusive Interview With Oregon ‘Militiamen’ – “We Have an End Game…This isn’t a Crybaby Protest”
By William N. Grigg on January 6, 2016
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/exclusive-interview-citizens-constitutional-freedom-oregon/
Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, Harney County, Oregon — Members of the group calling itself “Citizens for Constitutional Freedom” told The Free Thought Project that they intend to remain ensconced on federally owned land while legal researchers explore ways of “returning the land to the people who should control it.” They went on to say that they are enjoying both moral and material support from ranchers whose properties are imperiled by the BLM and other federal agencies.
“We have an end game in mind — this isn’t merely a crybaby protest,” insisted controversial activist Jon Ritzheimer, who spoke to The Free Thought Project while acting as a security guard at the top of a long driveway leading to the administrative headquarters of the refuge. “We are going to town on the land rights issues. There are researchers investigating title and land rights issues, mineral and resource rights issues, and we intend to stay here until we can build a legal case to return control of the land back to the people who should have it.”
A recent essay published in this space explored the federal dispossession of the Paiute Indians, who in the 1870’s had been promised the territory now called Harney County as part of a peace agreement following the Snake War. Asked if the CCF had made overtures to Native groups regarding land rights issues, Ritzheimer replied that he and his associates would be eager to reach out “if we knew how to contact them and who we should talk to.”
“We are very aware of the treatment of Natives, and we have offered to help them in Arizona,” added Blaine Cooper, who — like Ritzheimer — is a native of the Grand Canyon State. “We offered our support to the Apaches after Senator [John] McCain snuck through a deal to grab their lands on behalf of his cronies last year.”
In late 2014, Republican Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake stealthily attached a rider to the National Defense Authorization Act arranging a land swap that deprived the San Carlos Apache tribe of 2,400 acres that includes Oak Flat, revered by them as a sacred site called Chich’l Bildagoteel.
Former tribal chairman Wendsler Noise, Sr. told The New York Times that his community regards Oak Flat to be as sacred as “Mount Sinai … how the holy spirit came to be.”
The beneficiaries of this surreptitious deal — which was arranged at literally the last moment before the Senate approved the must-pass military spending measure — are the owners of Rio Tinto, an Australian-British transnational mining consortium, and BHT Biliton, a multi-resource mining company also based in Australia. Front groups for the mining company have been generous McCain campaign donors, and prior to his congressional career, Senator Flake was a paid lobbyist for Rio Tito Rossing Uranium, which had a huge operation in Namibia. McCain and Flake succeeded where several previous attempts by Arizona congressmen had failed. One of them, former Republican Rep. Rick Renzi, began a three-year federal prison term for money laundering and corruption a few months after the dirty deal was consummated.
Beginning roughly a year ago, members of the San Carlos Apache Nation have staged an occupation of Oak Creek, which is scheduled for delivery into the hands of its new corporate “owners” sixty days after a federal environmental impact statement is completed.
Last August, when McCain visited the Navajo Nation Museum to honor World War II “Code Talkers,” a group of protesters literally chased him from the site in a dramatic illustration of the Proverb that “The wicked flee where none give pursuit.”
The proposed copper mine would destroy many irreplaceable cultural and historic sites, the most notable of which is “Apache Leap” — a ledge from which 75 warriors are said to have plunged to their deaths, rather than surrendering to the U.S. Army. That act of heroic intransigence inspires the contemporary defenders of Oak Flat, whose tactics are broadly similar to those of the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom — with the significant difference that the CCF is armed and has expressed the intention to use force in the event of a violent confrontation. (None of the CCF activists displayed firearms during our visit.) It also must be acknowledged that the core of the CCF consists of people who are not native to Harney County, and that some residents of nearby Burns have expressed an earnest desire that they leave.
Several CCF members interviewed by The Free Thought Project claimed that local ranchers who reside within the federal Refuge area have expressed concern and support and offered material assistance. During a January 5 visit to the site of what has been called an “armed occupation,” The Free Thought Project spoke with one couple from neighboring Clark County who had brought a cord of firewood for the CCF, which would be useful in the event law enforcement official cut power to the facility.
“They’re probably not going to be able to do that,” one CCF member (who declined to give his name) responded when asked about that possibility. “They would have to be on-site to cut the power unless they want to take down the grid supplying power to all of the local ranchers in the middle of winter, which wouldn’t exactly win their hearts and minds.”
Harney County Sheriff David Ward, who has appealed for help to the Oregon Sheriffs Association, told Oregon Public Radio that the FBI is preparing criminal charges against the CCF. For its part, the group claims that it is well-supplied and prepared for a lengthy standoff that it hopes will end peacefully.
By William N. Grigg on January 6, 2016
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/exclusive-interview-citizens-constitutional-freedom-oregon/
Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, Harney County, Oregon — Members of the group calling itself “Citizens for Constitutional Freedom” told The Free Thought Project that they intend to remain ensconced on federally owned land while legal researchers explore ways of “returning the land to the people who should control it.” They went on to say that they are enjoying both moral and material support from ranchers whose properties are imperiled by the BLM and other federal agencies.
“We have an end game in mind — this isn’t merely a crybaby protest,” insisted controversial activist Jon Ritzheimer, who spoke to The Free Thought Project while acting as a security guard at the top of a long driveway leading to the administrative headquarters of the refuge. “We are going to town on the land rights issues. There are researchers investigating title and land rights issues, mineral and resource rights issues, and we intend to stay here until we can build a legal case to return control of the land back to the people who should have it.”
A recent essay published in this space explored the federal dispossession of the Paiute Indians, who in the 1870’s had been promised the territory now called Harney County as part of a peace agreement following the Snake War. Asked if the CCF had made overtures to Native groups regarding land rights issues, Ritzheimer replied that he and his associates would be eager to reach out “if we knew how to contact them and who we should talk to.”
“We are very aware of the treatment of Natives, and we have offered to help them in Arizona,” added Blaine Cooper, who — like Ritzheimer — is a native of the Grand Canyon State. “We offered our support to the Apaches after Senator [John] McCain snuck through a deal to grab their lands on behalf of his cronies last year.”
In late 2014, Republican Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake stealthily attached a rider to the National Defense Authorization Act arranging a land swap that deprived the San Carlos Apache tribe of 2,400 acres that includes Oak Flat, revered by them as a sacred site called Chich’l Bildagoteel.
Former tribal chairman Wendsler Noise, Sr. told The New York Times that his community regards Oak Flat to be as sacred as “Mount Sinai … how the holy spirit came to be.”
The beneficiaries of this surreptitious deal — which was arranged at literally the last moment before the Senate approved the must-pass military spending measure — are the owners of Rio Tinto, an Australian-British transnational mining consortium, and BHT Biliton, a multi-resource mining company also based in Australia. Front groups for the mining company have been generous McCain campaign donors, and prior to his congressional career, Senator Flake was a paid lobbyist for Rio Tito Rossing Uranium, which had a huge operation in Namibia. McCain and Flake succeeded where several previous attempts by Arizona congressmen had failed. One of them, former Republican Rep. Rick Renzi, began a three-year federal prison term for money laundering and corruption a few months after the dirty deal was consummated.
Beginning roughly a year ago, members of the San Carlos Apache Nation have staged an occupation of Oak Creek, which is scheduled for delivery into the hands of its new corporate “owners” sixty days after a federal environmental impact statement is completed.
Last August, when McCain visited the Navajo Nation Museum to honor World War II “Code Talkers,” a group of protesters literally chased him from the site in a dramatic illustration of the Proverb that “The wicked flee where none give pursuit.”
The proposed copper mine would destroy many irreplaceable cultural and historic sites, the most notable of which is “Apache Leap” — a ledge from which 75 warriors are said to have plunged to their deaths, rather than surrendering to the U.S. Army. That act of heroic intransigence inspires the contemporary defenders of Oak Flat, whose tactics are broadly similar to those of the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom — with the significant difference that the CCF is armed and has expressed the intention to use force in the event of a violent confrontation. (None of the CCF activists displayed firearms during our visit.) It also must be acknowledged that the core of the CCF consists of people who are not native to Harney County, and that some residents of nearby Burns have expressed an earnest desire that they leave.
Several CCF members interviewed by The Free Thought Project claimed that local ranchers who reside within the federal Refuge area have expressed concern and support and offered material assistance. During a January 5 visit to the site of what has been called an “armed occupation,” The Free Thought Project spoke with one couple from neighboring Clark County who had brought a cord of firewood for the CCF, which would be useful in the event law enforcement official cut power to the facility.
“They’re probably not going to be able to do that,” one CCF member (who declined to give his name) responded when asked about that possibility. “They would have to be on-site to cut the power unless they want to take down the grid supplying power to all of the local ranchers in the middle of winter, which wouldn’t exactly win their hearts and minds.”
Harney County Sheriff David Ward, who has appealed for help to the Oregon Sheriffs Association, told Oregon Public Radio that the FBI is preparing criminal charges against the CCF. For its part, the group claims that it is well-supplied and prepared for a lengthy standoff that it hopes will end peacefully.
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