Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

[GunnyFreedom]

Yes. It is Obama'a gold and uranium. We ought not forget and squat on the king's land. Besides, it offends the apologists. CNN coverage might be negative.

Because we're all apologists for this dipshit administration.

 

[wizardwatson]

Yes. It is Obama'a gold and uranium. We ought not forget and squat on the king's land. Besides, it offends the apologists. CNN coverage might be negative.

The questions raised are about motivations. Just because you are "against the government" doesn't mean you are for liberty, or for the people.

In an ideal world where liberty reigned and property rights were respected and industries were held accountable, sure, I suppose we should open all this land up and let homesteading rules apply. But in the current environment, that would just mean we'd be improving the positions of the globalists who would buy it up, strip mine it, and use it to improve their own position with borrowed money. And just like we see with the fracking problems, no damage they do to the environment would ever be compensated because the electorate is bought and paid for.

If liberty reigns, yes the economy naturally performs better. But simply dumping massive amounts of wealth into a corrupt political economy is not going to improve the climate of liberty, it's just going to take from Uncle Sam's piggy bank, where at least we have some political means to agree with what to do with this land, rather than simply cashing it all out and handing it over to globalist corporations, where some prospecting homesteaders get golden parachutes for being the first armed occupants who can rightfully sell it to them.

 

[JK/SEA]

What was the rationale for taking that federal building? Because it seems to be generating a large amount of negative PR.

Subjective.

Some people think that civil disobedience should be a qualifier for the death penalty.

fuckin traitors and cowards running rampant in here.

 

[Valli6]

Video - Rep. Greg Walden addresses U.S. House 1/5/16

Greg Walden addresses U.S. House on situation in Harney County, OR, federal overreach in the West
Jan 5, 2016

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Subjective.

Some people think that civil disobedience should be a qualifier for the death penalty.

fuckin traitors running rampant in here.

You should stop attributing bullshit to people to help demonize them in your mind. Considering Ammon Bundy's specific action ill advised, does not imply opposition to civil disobedience or even opposition to an armed uprising. It just means thinking this specific action was a bad idea. Why in the actual hell is this so hard to grasp?

 

[JK/SEA]

You should stop attributing bullshit to people to help demonize them in your mind. Considering Ammon Bundy's specific action ill advised, does not imply opposition to civil disobedience or even opposition to an armed uprising. It just means thinking this specific action was a bad idea. Why in the actual hell is this so hard to grasp?

you could be right. I think i need to take a big healthy shit, then i might come around....maybe.

meanwhile innocent God fearing people are in prison....

 

[phill4paul]

Subjective.

Some people think that civil disobedience should be a qualifier for the death penalty.

fuckin traitors and cowards running rampant in here.

What the fuck are you on about? All but the first sentence is nothing but a load of horseshit.

 

[phill4paul]

D.P.

 

[wizardwatson]

Subjective.

Some people think that civil disobedience should be a qualifier for the death penalty.

fuckin traitors and cowards running rampant in here.

I don't see any traitors and cowards in here. In fact, many of the articles I've read are making fun of these guys right and left. "Jamokes", "Vanilla ISIS", etc. Here people are criticizing the strategy mostly. What is their endgame? What do they hope to accomplish? Because as LE said, right now it just seems like a buttload of bad press for militias and "patriots" since they've chosen to adorn their rhetoric with liberty memes and call themselves the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom.

If you stick your neck out and try to "lead" a movement, naturally the movement at large is going to evaluate the substance of not only your character but your strategy as well.

Taking unnecessary, and unproductive risks doesn't make you a brave leader. It makes you dangerous to yourself and those who choose to follow you.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

What the fuck are you on about? All but the first sentence is nothing but a load of horseshit.

^^ Elementary thinking.

 

[Lucille]

More on the vagina who appealed the sentence.

UNBELIEVABLE Update – Oregon “Bundy Militia” Standoff – The U.S. Attorney At The Heart of The Hammond Family Problem…
http://theconservativetreehouse.com...r-at-the-heart-of-the-hammond-family-problem/

So what would prompt U.S. Attorney for the Sate of Oregon Ms Amanda Marshall to file such a “rare” appeal? And, what motivation might lay behind her intentions?

A review of Amanda Marshall reveals some rather disturbing facts.

First, she was an Obama appointee. A very left-wing activist appointee who took office October 7th 2011. Marshall had no experience at all as a federal prosecutor before being given the job as a U.S. Attorney for Oregon.

Marshall was plucked from a child advocacy legal job inside the Oregon Department of Justice. [Pay attention to this little “child advocacy aspect” because it might play a larger role later on.] Before that, she served as a deputy district attorney in Coos County. Why? Apparently it was because the White House wanted a woman for the job.
[...]
After winning the sentencing appeal – In May of 2015 activist Amanda Marshall stepped down from her job as U.S. Attorney for Oregon, citing “health concerns“.

A very strange sketchy exit to use the reasoning “Health Concerns” because she was under internal (Office of Inspector General ) investigation of her for “stalking” a co-worker U.S. Attorney Scott Kerin:
[...]
Now here is where an actual boots-on-the-ground reporter is needed. You might remember from the full story of the Hammonds a part about a disturbed grandson/nephew Dusty Hammond being called to testify against them:

(o) Federal attorneys, Frank Papagni, hunted down a witness who was not mentally capable to be credible. Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13-years-old at the time, and 24-years-old when he testified (11 years later).

At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years. He had estranged his family including his mother. Judge Hogan noted that Dusty’s memories as a 13-year-old boy were not clear or credible.

However, Judge Hogan allowed the prosecution to continually use Dusty’s testimony. When speaking to the Hammonds about this testimony, they understood Dusty was manipulated and expressed nothing but love for their troubled grandson. (more)

Given the nature of Amanda Marshall’s prior job in Child’s Legal Advocacy, and given the facts of Dusty Hammond having prior issues and welfare, what are the odds that U.S. Attorney Marshall carried some additional intentions with her as she took office and made the decision to appeal the earlier-served sentences and push for more punishment?

Sounds like the Hammonds could have used a better lawyer.

 

[JK/SEA]

I don't see any traitors and cowards in here. In fact, many of the articles I've read are making fun of these guys right and left. "Jamokes", "Vanilla ISIS", etc. Here people are criticizing the strategy mostly. What is their endgame? What do they hope to accomplish? Because as LE said, right now it just seems like a buttload of bad press for militias and "patriots" since they've chosen to adorn their rhetoric with liberty memes and call themselves the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom.

If you stick your neck out and try to "lead" a movement, naturally the movement at large is going to evaluate the substance of not only your character but your strategy as well.

Taking unnecessary, and unproductive risks doesn't make you a brave leader. It makes you dangerous to yourself and those who choose to follow you.

well, before y'all hang me, i would just like to inform you that this current action in Oregon is still fluid, and any negative results that might occur, and somehow reflect poorly on ALL miltia organizations is still yet to be decided. All your rhetoric is just that...rhetoric.

Am i disapponted in OK?...yes, i am, but my one man revolution isn't going to move the dial much, and OK will still be an organization with many good men and women in their midst in spite my temper tantrum.

keep your powder dry...if you have any.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

well, before y'all hang me, i would just like to inform you that this current action in Oregon is still fluid, and any negative results that might occur, and somehow reflect poorly on ALL miltia organizations is still yet to be decided. All your rhetoric is just that...rhetoric.

Am i disapponted in OK?...yes, i am, but my one man revolution isn't going to move the dial much, and OK will still be an organization with many good men and women in their midst in spite my temper tantrum.

keep your powder dry...if you have any.

Speaking of rhetoric, you are the one calling people "traitors and cowards" simply because they want to be intelligent and strategically successful, and act in a rational manner. If anyone here is causing division, it's you.

 

[Ender]

I don't see any traitors and cowards in here. In fact, many of the articles I've read are making fun of these guys right and left. "Jamokes", "Vanilla ISIS", etc. Here people are criticizing the strategy mostly. What is their endgame? What do they hope to accomplish? Because as LE said, right now it just seems like a buttload of bad press for militias and "patriots" since they've chosen to adorn their rhetoric with liberty memes and call themselves the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom.

If you stick your neck out and try to "lead" a movement, naturally the movement at large is going to evaluate the substance of not only your character but your strategy as well.

Taking unnecessary, and unproductive risks doesn't make you a brave leader. It makes you dangerous to yourself and those who choose to follow you.

Most local people were appalled at the Boston Tea Party- now we see the instigators as cool.

 

[wizardwatson]

well, before y'all hang me, i would just like to inform you that this current action in Oregon is still fluid, and any negative results that might occur, and somehow reflect poorly on ALL miltia organizations is still yet to be decided. All your rhetoric is just that...rhetoric.

Am i disapponted in OK?...yes, i am, but my one man revolution isn't going to move the dial much, and OK will still be an organization with many good men and women in their midst in spite my temper tantrum.

keep your powder dry...if you have any.

I don't think it's a big deal really. In fact, the idea that they're being ostracized is probably a good thing overall. An article I read a few days ago basically said that what they are doing is "bad" because it fast forwards the clock on demonizing "patriots" and the like. But even that now, I think is minimal and really the truth of how that will play out remains to be seen.

What's really cause for concern is that whoever took part in this will likely go to jail. "Go home peacefully" doesn't mean they won't be served arrest warrants when they get back home. And for what? Throwing yourself in jail to protest others in jail isn't much of an accomplishment.

The "Citizens for Constitutional Freedom" went off the reservation. In one of Bundys youtube videos he said that he knew the militias had said to "stand down" from this and he was urging "the true patriots" to ignore their leaders and join him. So not only is his specific choice of actions questionable, but he's even going against the leadership of the standing militias.

The climate of this country is apathy and desperation on one side, and a lot of hate-filled collectivist rhetoric on the other. I'd say we are on the former side. We should be aware of our level of desperation and not think that more desperate people are going to cure the apathy, or that your level of desperation is a barometer of how much you care.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

'I've got a lot to live for'

Protesters said they're ready for a long wait.

Bundy said he expected other "patriot groups" to arrive and support the Oregon protesters.

"It is important that we as people stand when our government is out of control," he said. "We are planning to defend ourselves."

LaVoy Finicum, an Arizona rancher and father of 11 children, talked to reporters Tuesday night while sitting outside the compound in a rocking chair with a rifle in his hands.

"I'm here to make it easy for the FBI to find me," he said, adding he wouldn't use the rifle "unless someone points a weapon at me."

Finicum said he intended to go home to his ranch and live out his life.

"I want to go home, too, I'm expecting two grandchildren. I've got a lot to live for."

When asked why he hadn't left, he replied: "There are two things on my mind more important than my life -- my family and my freedom. Their freedom."

hxxp://www.cnn.com/2016/01/06/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-armed-protest/index.html

 

[JK/SEA]

Speaking of rhetoric, you are the one calling people "traitors and cowards" simply because they want to be intelligent and strategically successful, and act in a rational manner. If anyone here is causing division, it's you.

thanks, i needed that, may i have another...

being loyal to OK doesn't necessarily translate into always doing the right thing. But seeing how your military discipline and training is a factor, which i have neither of, i can see your anger towards a mundane like me being justified in your mind.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Most local people were appalled at the Boston Tea Party- now we see the instigators as cool.

This is important to always keep in mind.

No matter how good your PR machine is, if you are rebelling against a standing system that the majority is vested in, that majority will fight you and push back.

 

[Valli6]

Feds to designate 40% of Malheur County "wilderness area"!

What was the rationale for taking that federal building? Because it seems to be generating a large amount of negative PR.

I'm guessing they chose the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, because the feds intend to designate 2 1/2 million acres of Malheur county "a national monument or wilderness area". It's about the next battle.

Listen to Greg Walden's floor speech, between 11:06 to 12:33:

Right now, this administration, secretly… but not so much… is threatening in the next county over - that looks a lot like this one... Malheur County…to force a monument of two and a half million acres, we believe. I think this is outrageous! It flies in the face of the people! And a way of life! And the public access! There's a company - Keen shoes - that already has a big marketing campaign. This is about selling shoes, for God's sakes!

I call on the president - if he wants to help reduce the tension thats out there, to walk away from this! And if he doesn't want to walk away and say, "No. We're not gonna do that" to help us bring down this level of frustration and anger, then at least be honest - or his Secretary of interior needs to be honest - and tell us they are gonna do it! They either are, or they aren't, but all they are, is being coy! That feeds into this! It feeds into the anger that I feel, it feeds into the anger out there! So, the president should say, "I'm not gonna do a national monument. I'm not gonna add more fuel on this fire in the west."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4ocLdWE90&feature=youtu.be

There's a whole, 'nother story here!

Ranchers oppose Malheur County monument designation
Sean Ellis - Capital Press
October 21, 2015

Ranchers, farmers and others in Malheur County are opposing a proposal to designate 40 percent of the Eastern Oregon county as a national monument or wilderness area.

ONTARIO, Ore. — An effort by conservation groups to have a large chunk of Malheur County set aside as a national monument or wilderness area has riled up ranchers and farmers in the area.

They have joined forces with a group of concerned citizens and elected officials who are fighting the Owyhee Canyonlands Conservation Proposal, which would encompass 2.5 million acres.

Malheur County Cattlemen’s Association President Chris Christensen said locking up that much area would eliminate a large amount of grazing land and devastate Oregon’s No. 1 cattle producing county.

“If this thing comes to pass, it would have a devastating effect on the ranching community and agriculture in Malheur County,” he said. “Anybody involved in agriculture in Malheur County isn’t going to be in favor of this thing.”

Christensen said a large chunk of that 2.5 million acres is grazed.

According to Sergio Arispe, a livestock and rangeland agent at Oregon State University’s Malheur County Extension office, locking up that much land would eliminate about 33 percent of the county’s total grazing land.

A monument designation “would destroy the community and the business of agriculture as it’s being done in this area right now,” Christensen said.

Oregon Natural Desert Association, which is leading the monument effort, says it would protect 2.5 million acres of wild lands and hundreds of miles of wild and scenic rivers. According to the group’s web site, the proposal would “allow working farms and ranches to continue to operate.”

But Jordan Valley rancher Bob Skinner, former president of the Oregon Cattlemen’s Association, said area residents believe the opposite would happen.

The majority of that 2.5 million acres is grazed, he said.

“There are cattle everywhere out there,” Skinner said. “If you take cattle out of (this) economy, you have decimated the economy. It would change our way of life. Not only farmers and ranchers, but everybody around here is up in arms about it.”

Malheur County Soil and Water Conservation District Manager Linda Rowe, who opposes the monument proposal, said that 2.5 million acres would equal 43 percent of the county.

If the county’s economically vital cattle industry was devastated by it, a lot of hay, corn and other grains wouldn’t be grown here, she said.

“It would impact agriculture in Malheur County as a whole,” Rowe said.

Local elected officials and members of Oregon’s congressional delegation are holding a town hall meeting on the issue from 6:30-8:30 p.m. Oct. 29 in the Adrian High School gymnasium.

ONDA and other regional and national conservation groups and businesses are gathering signatures to back their effort. According to ONDA’s web site, “a variety of legislative and administrative options (are) being considered to permanently protect this place.”

According to a news release from Rep. Cliff Bentz, R-Ontario, it is anticipated the groups are planning to ask President Barack Obama to use his power under the Antiquities Act to designate the land as a national monument, wilderness area or national conservation area.

http://www.capitalpress.com/Oregon/20151021/ranchers-oppose-malheur-county-monument-designation

Very complicated bunch of issues here. Looks like we need to check out the local media to find answers.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

thanks, i needed that, may i have another...

being loyal to OK doesn't necessarily translate into always doing the right thing. But seeing how your military discipline and training is a factor, which i have neither of, i can see your anger towards a mundane like me being justified in your mind.

You may recall that I explained my position before the OK's were even asked. Or you may not. Whatever. You just keep on heaping fictional bullshit onto people if it makes it easier for you to demonize them. Frankly all of this GWB like says a hell of a lot about you, and none of it good.