Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

[Uriel999]

New Stefan Molyneux video on the issue:

 

[Valli6]

Rep Greg Walden speaks about the Hammonds on House floor

UPDATE: Tube now available.

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You can listen to Rep. Greg Walden's floor speech at the following link.
It begins at 54:34(?) and lasts almost 25 minutes.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?402734-2/us-house-call-house-vote&start=3258

summary in case you don't have time for the video:
Walden starts put by trying to describe how very large the area is. Then describes the size of the natural fires they deal with every year. They cover hundreds of thousands of acres. (The Hammond's fire covered 139 acres). He expresses disgust with the way ranchers are being laughed at and ridiculed, and says it's no laughing matter. He goes back decades discussing laws and fights and the BLM's mismanagement which ignores the people and frequently results in a lot of unnecessary damage to private property. He mentions some "bad players" during the 80's and eminent domain threats to take ranchers' property away. Finally, he goes into some detail about using a law intended for terrorists to send the Hammonds to prison for 5 years.
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I hope Rand will familiarize himself with this issue and speak about it publicly soon. I know Rubio and Cruz have made statements, but they were limited to saying, essentially, that the Bundys must stand down. Trump can't say anything about it that voters will like, because he's all for eminent domain.

Rand can focus on the Hammonds and tie it in with his stance on eminent domain abuse.

 

[phill4paul]

Don't know how credible it its but Rhoades is putting out a warning. I could see a task force already having been formed. I don't necessarily think it is indicative of an impending attack. Take it however you want to....

URGENT Warning on OR Standoff: Military Special OP Assets Have Been Assigned for Standoff. Get All Children Out of There Immediately

Oath Keepers has received very credible information from an active duty source within the special operations community that at least one SOD-X (Reserve/National Guard Special Operations Detachment, see this, this, and this) unit under the command of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) has been tasked for this standoff at the Malheur Wildlife Reserve and moved to the area. Given this, we should expect that other special operations assets, such as Delta Force, will also be involved if the Obama Administration decides to give the green light on a military raid/strike. And we should expect the presence of the infamous FBI HRT (which were present at both Ruby Ridge and Waco).

Due to this, anyone who has children there, at the wildlife refuge, needs to get them out immediately, and DO NOT take any more children there for any reason (and we do know that some children, including a baby, have been seen there). We do not need to have the risk of dead children in this incident. It is unconscionable and immoral for anyone to place children at risk of being in the middle of a firefight or military raid/strike on the armed men holding that federal wildlife refuge. Now, of course, just because military special operations units have been sent to the area and are tasked with a possible action does not mean it will be done. It may not. But we DO NOT trust the Obama Administration to do this right, which would be to handle it like the Montana Freeman standoff rather than the Waco standoff, and anyone who thinks that Obama wouldn’t dare drop the hammer on Ammon and his men is a fool. We hope “the adults in the room” in the Administration and in the federal LEO and military community will keep that from happening, but hope is not an operational plan. We don’t trust them, and you shouldn’t either, so:

Get, and keep, children off the friggin X.

This is not a “free speech” barbecue at Bundy Ranch with live music by Jordan Page. This is a whole different animal. Children have no business being there. In fact, there should be no non-combatants (no women and children) there at all. This is not a family event. The only people there should be the armed men who are willing to die there with Ammon Bundy and his brothers and a couple of embedded reporters. If they want to put themselves at risk, that is their choice, but don’t have children there. If a dozen men die in a shootout, that is one thing, but if children die, there will be a civil war.

Oath Keepers



Short Oath Keepers Statement on this Standoff

I will post a longer statement later, but for now, here is a brief statement on this situation, in general:

Oath Keepers adamantly opposes the armed takeover of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. This is not in keeping with the moral imperative of only using force in defense when people’s lives are at stake, as at Bundy Ranch in 2014. In this case, neither the Hammonds nor their neighbors were in imminent threat of being murdered, and neither the Hammonds nor their neighbors asked for any form of armed standoff. In fact, they oppose it. This is being done by outsiders who mislead and deceived locals, deceived the Hammonds, and deceived the patriot movement by luring them in with a peaceful rally and then attempting to rope them into a premeditated, manufactured armed standoff. Both Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne (who we suspect is an agent provocateur) told the locals in the Committee of Safety, at a public town hall meeting on December 15, that they, the locals on the committee, would be making the decisions on what was to be done, how, and when. That was a lie, as they were already staging their men and supplies in the area to takeover the wildlife refuge, and had already planned out this takeover of the federal facility at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. By doing this, they have given Obama the best New Years present he could hope for – an example of militia movement/patriot aggression, which gives up the high ground while also having the least credibility and support from the locals possible, after lying to them, and also the least support from the patriot community, who were also blind-sided by Ammon and Ryan Payne.

However, as much as we oppose what Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne have done, we must warn the Obama Administration that it does not have free reign to “Waco” the people in this standoff by using deadly military force, such as an SOD-X, Delta Force, or the FBI HRT to kill them all. The Federal government must respect their right to due process and do all it can to end this standoff peacefully, without loss of life. It must treat it like the Freeman standoff, not the Waco standoff. There will be no more free Wacos, as Mike Vanderbgh, Founder of the Three Percenter movement puts it. Treat this with kid gloves or risk a civil war.

Stewart Rhodes
Founder and President of Oath Keepers

https://www.oathkeepers.org/urgent-...ff-get-all-children-out-of-there-immediately/

 

[Schifference]

The US government should stand down.

They should if they feel they have a case start a legal eviction process to evict the squatters in a legal peaceful manner like I would have to do if squatters took up residence on one of my properties.

No need for guns and bullets.

Use the court system.

 

[nobody's_hero]

Man I wish I was sheriff of Harney County, Oregon for just one day.

These guys are in a real pickle. If the sheriff doesn't try to negotiate some peaceful resolution to this the Feds are gonna go in guns blazin'. But Sheriff Ward seems to be a bit of a coward.

 

[Anti Federalist]

However, as much as we oppose what Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne have done, we must warn the Obama Administration that it does not have free reign to “Waco” the people in this standoff by using deadly military force, such as an SOD-X, Delta Force, or the FBI HRT to kill them all. The Federal government must respect their right to due process and do all it can to end this standoff peacefully, without loss of life. It must treat it like the Freeman standoff, not the Waco standoff. There will be no more free Wacos, as Mike Vanderbgh, Founder of the Three Percenter movement puts it. Treat this with kid gloves or risk a civil war.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

However, as much as we oppose what Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne have done, we must warn the Obama Administration that it does not have free reign to “Waco” the people in this standoff by using deadly military force, such as an SOD-X, Delta Force, or the FBI HRT to kill them all. The Federal government must respect their right to due process and do all it can to end this standoff peacefully, without loss of life. It must treat it like the Freeman standoff, not the Waco standoff. There will be no more free Wacos, as Mike Vanderbgh, Founder of the Three Percenter movement puts it. Treat this with kid gloves or risk a civil war.

This. x1000. I doubt it will affect the haters in any way though.

 

[tod evans]

I've always looked at OK with a healthy degree of skepticism........

Treat this with kid gloves or risk a civil war.

This however gives me a little leave...

They're still by and large kops though.....

 

[osan]

Originally Posted by JK/SEA

<font color="#111111">


where's Oathkeepers?...no excuses.where's Oathkeepers?...no excuses.

Oh, I LIKE this girl.

Suggestion: shall we have an educational thread where these sorts of issues are presented, hashed out, and cobbled into a cohesive set of lessons such that we could spread this as a free course for the edification of one and all? I am see a GREAT need for such things to be made freely available without the encumbrances of monetary outlays.

I know RPF projects never go anywhere and have no expectation that this would be any different, but I ask anyway just so nobody can say the subject was never broached.

 

[phill4paul]

Oath Keepers...

NOTE and UPDATE as of 4am, Wed., Jan 6: We are already getting flack for even saying this, with people accusing us of spreading “false intel” or rumors, and of course, wild-eyed accusations of us somehow being “traitors” because we don’t want to see women and children put at risk. It is really a no-brainer that this Administration would at least stage both military and Federal law enforcement Special Response Teams for possible use in this situation. That is hardly an out-there conspiracy theory. And it should be a no-brainer and common sense to keep women and children clear of such an armed occupation of a federal facility, but apparently it is not, and so we felt duty bound to tell people to keep them away, and exactly why we think it necessary (I will ALWAYS put the safety of women and children first, no matter who it pisses off. I am not in this for a popularity contest). So, don’t shoot the messenger. In addition, last night (Jan 5) Ammon Bundy himself let it be known that he had received information from three independent sources that a dynamic raid of some kind was possibly coming soon. So there! – Stewart

https://www.oathkeepers.org/urgent-...ff-get-all-children-out-of-there-immediately/

3% of Oregon Official Press Release

Topic: Malheur Wildlife Refuge Siege

On January 2, 2016, various patriot organizations under the direction of the Oregon 3% and associated groups organized a peaceful rally in Burns, Oregon in a show of support for the Hammonds Family and the community of Harney County. The immediate aims of this peaceful protest were to voice dissent of the wrongful prosecution of the Hammonds, the family’s subsequent decision to report to prison for federal charges, and for the refusal of the Sherriff to protect and support the citizens of Harney County. Following the peaceful protest, members of militias and individuals voiced their decision to “take a hard stand” which would be to seize a Federal National Wildlife Refuge building in Malheur County, and succeeded in doing so.

Unbeknownst to the Idaho 3%, Oregon 3%, it’s leaders, associations, rally participants, or the citizens of Harney County; these actions were premeditated and carried out by a small group of persons who chose to carry out this takeover after the rally. The 3% of Idaho, 3% of Oregon, The Oregon Constitutional Guard, and PPN organizations in no way condone nor support these actions. They do not mirror our vision, mission statement, or views in regards to upholding the Constitution, The Rule of Law, or Due Process.
During the weeks leading up to the rally, none of the aforementioned groups made any Calls to Arms to it’s members, nor planned or advocated for any form of armed uprising. The citizens of Harney County remain in solidarity with the aforementioned groups, as well as support our efforts to remain peaceful in our attempt to exercise the 1st Amendment Right. For the time being, we will remain in Harney County to continue to show our support for the Hammonds, and the community. We will continue to release updates and information as it is available. We want to personally thank the citizens of Harney County and the city of Burns for their hospitality.

Oregon iii%

https://www.oathkeepers.org/oregon-iii-press-release-on-malheur-wildlife-refuge/

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Oh, I LIKE this girl.

Suggestion: shall we have an educational thread where these sorts of issues are presented, hashed out, and cobbled into a cohesive set of lessons such that we could spread this as a free course for the edification of one and all? I am see a GREAT need for such things to be made freely available without the encumbrances of monetary outlays.

I know RPF projects never go anywhere and have no expectation that this would be any different, but I ask anyway just so nobody can say the subject was never broached.

Ehh, KrisAnne is great, but she's technically wrong here. Art 1 §8 includes an "and other needful buildings" proviso, and Art 4 §3 Para 2 contains an "and other properties" proviso. In this particular case she's letting her emotions run away with her reason. Still, a pretty girl on the verge of crying claiming to be an expert, most people are going to believe her, just because.

 

[Deborah K]

I gotta total cointel vibe from Payne, should be interesting how this plays out.

Yeah, apparently Rhodes has the same vibe according to the article. Payne has been outed as a liar about his Ranger background. I am befuddled as to why Bundy has aligned with him.

And I don't get the sudden lack of support for the Oath Keepers. I know first hand Stewart is a stand-up guy, has integrity, and smarts. RPFs by and large, was a huge supporter of theirs. What happened?

 

[Deborah K]

However, as much as we oppose what Ammon Bundy and Ryan Payne have done, we must warn the Obama Administration that it does not have free reign to “Waco” the people in this standoff by using deadly military force, such as an SOD-X, Delta Force, or the FBI HRT to kill them all. The Federal government must respect their right to due process and do all it can to end this standoff peacefully, without loss of life. It must treat it like the Freeman standoff, not the Waco standoff. There will be no more free Wacos, as Mike Vanderbgh, Founder of the Three Percenter movement puts it. Treat this with kid gloves or risk a civil war.

Can it be made any clearer?

 

[LibertyEagle]

What was the rationale for taking that federal building? Because it seems to be generating a large amount of negative PR.

 

[phill4paul]

Yeah, apparently Rhodes has the same vibe according to the article. Payne has been outed as a liar about his Ranger background. I am befuddled as to why Bundy has aligned with him.

And I don't get the sudden lack of support for the Oath Keepers. I know first hand Stewart is a stand-up guy, has integrity, and smarts. RPFs by and large, was a huge supporter of theirs. What happened?

IIRC Payne was one of the first on the scene at the Bundy standoff. He assumed the position as head of their personal security detail and practically lived with them 24/7. He went with them to church and converted to the L.D.S.

 

[Origanalist]

Yeah, apparently Rhodes has the same vibe according to the article. Payne has been outed as a liar about his Ranger background. I am befuddled as to why Bundy has aligned with him.

And I don't get the sudden lack of support for the Oath Keepers. I know first hand Stewart is a stand-up guy, has integrity, and smarts. RPFs by and large, was a huge supporter of theirs. What happened?

Most of the negativity to OK seems to be coming from one person.

 

[Uriel999]

What was the rationale for taking that federal building? Because it seems to be generating a large amount of negative PR.

My guess is Paynes handlers are pissed round 1 at Bundy Ranch backfired and looked good for the militia movement so they got him to trick Bundy into a round two that makes them look retarded.

It doesn't even make sense either. The 300 person strong protest brought plenty of coverage to the situation. Now not even just the liberty movement in general but even militias are looking at them like they have dicks growing out of their foreheads.

 

[phill4paul]

What was the rationale for taking that federal building? Because it seems to be generating a large amount of negative PR.

No idea. Bundy/Payne didn't run the idea by any of the Oregon militias and took that initiative without any consideration/input. But, hey, look where Eric Holder is today after taking over a government building. Maybe Ammon wants to be the next A.G.

 

[wizardwatson]

What was the rationale for taking that federal building? Because it seems to be generating a large amount of negative PR.

I watched a video last night that has made me even more suspicious of the Bundy situation.

It's the latest video by dutchsinse on youtube, who is an earthquake watcher. He had done some research last year into Bundy's ranch which is near the ghost town Gold Butte, Nevada. Apparently, pointing out that the BLM really wants the ranch for its gold and uranium deposits (short version). In this new video he points out that the area in question in Oregon also just happens to be rich in gold and uranium.

dutchsinse doesn't propose or outline any concrete conspiracy, but it does seem suspicious and certainly something to keep in mind when we see what happens to this land in the future.

What "work" exactly are these renegade militia men planning to do in Oregon? Whose private hands do they want to see that land in the possession of? How much do certain players involved know about the mineral deposits in all these federal lands?

Anyway, dutchsinse really raises more questions than he answers, but not far-fetched I think to believe this story about more than this veneer of cattle grazing and standing up to tyranny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpkm6iSd--c

 

[kcchiefs6465]

I watched a video last night that has made me even more suspicious of the Bundy situation.

It's the latest video by dutchsinse on youtube, who is an earthquake watcher. He had done some research last year into Bundy's ranch which is near the ghost town Gold Butte, Nevada. Apparently, pointing out that the BLM really wants the ranch for its gold and uranium deposits (short version). In this new video he points out that the area in question in Oregon also just happens to be rich in gold and uranium.

dutchsinse doesn't propose or outline any concrete conspiracy, but it does seem suspicious and certainly something to keep in mind when we see what happens to this land in the future.

What "work" exactly are these renegade militia men planning to do in Oregon? Whose private hands do they want to see that land in the possession of? How much do certain players involved know about the mineral deposits in all these federal lands?

Anyway, dutchsinse really raises more questions than he answers, but not far-fetched I think to believe this story about more than this veneer of cattle grazing and standing up to tyranny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpkm6iSd--c

Yes. It is Obama'a gold and uranium. We ought not forget and squat on the king's land. Besides, it offends the apologists. CNN coverage might be negative.