Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

[TheNewYorker]

Money is not important to me. Not filing is.

You better be careful with that... It's going to catch up to you. My brother in law is serving 25 years in prison for not reporting his income

 

[UWDude]

I see the "thing" happening now. The big "it." Where those radicals, who should be united against the repression of the police state, are instead, in hot hatred of each other. Their anger once again focused to the man standing next to him, instead of the one holding the whip above him.

Right now, it is an operation. Why here? Why now? Why Oregon?

Solidarity is the answer. Division will destroy all human freedom. Boot on face forever style.

I am quite convinced now, Bundy and the BLM and the BLM movement, 9/11 and emergency code 911, Osama and Obama, are all related to the bigger puppet show. This is literal mass mind control, dreamed up by scientific, philosophical, ancient order megalomaniacal minds. Their dream is your nightmare, masses, I assure you.

Thing is, it's a dirty job, and someone's gotta do it. Someone has to be the megalomaniac, right? All power is justified in the mind of the user as a path to some greater good.

So yeah, we'll even one day hear about solidarity, and they'll mean, "solidarity, under my cause, in my small radical tent", and nobody will be able to actually unite. Race was, is, and always will be the American Empire's weak point. If you can't solve that, you are all damned to your destiny with the rest of the miserable race. A miserable, angry, hateful land of people intent on killing each other for centuries. Constant war and conflict.

This is what upset me, I posed the question here, about 10 minutes later, this video shows up in my youtube subscriptions:
The Shared Interests of the Oregon Militia Movement,
"oh? I'll mouse over that"
Koch Brothers and LDS Church.
"oh boy"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0vGjIBK7ww

This is your controlled, leftist "radical" opposition. (don't bother watching, I didn't, the title is what is important.)

I loathe to post it here though, because a lot of smug right wingers, engrossed in their own hatred, will just use it to justify their own racist and hateful ideologies. But hey, let the hate flow. I think this group has the highest amount of people per capita of seeing through it and not getting caught up in it. And I am just here to help those who do care about the truth, justice, and the American way. It is hard to know truth and impossible to know justice in the empire of lies.


Let me put it this way:
If I see signs of division, and actors of division, I will know they are part of the dividers. There is much truth in what they say, that is the function of dis-info and controlled opposition. It must use truth most of the time. But even a 100% truthful news piece can be ALL LIE. Yes, because sometimes, it is what THEY DON'T SAY that determines the truth of something.

So I see actors of Division for what they are, and actors of unity as what they are. The actors of unity are quite rare.

 

[wizardwatson]

I see the "thing" happening now. The big "it." Where those radicals, who should be united against the repression of the police state, are instead, in hot hatred of each other. Their anger once again focused to the man standing next to him, instead of the one holding the whip above him.

Right now, it is an operation. Why here? Why now? Why Oregon?

Solidarity is the answer. Division will destroy all human freedom. Boot on face forever style.

I am quite convinced now, Bundy and the BLM and the BLM movement, 9/11 and emergency code 911, Osama and Obama, are all related to the bigger puppet show. This is literal mass mind control, dreamed up by scientific, philosophical, ancient order megalomaniacal minds. Their dream is your nightmare, masses, I assure you.

Thing is, it's a dirty job, and someone's gotta do it. Someone has to be the megalomaniac, right? All power is justified in the mind of the user as a path to some greater good.

So yeah, we'll even one day hear about solidarity, and they'll mean, "solidarity, under my cause, in my small radical tent", and nobody will be able to actually unite. Race was, is, and always will be the American Empire's weak point. If you can't solve that, you are all damned to your destiny with the rest of the miserable race. A miserable, angry, hateful land of people intent on killing each other for centuries. Constant war and conflict.

This is what upset me, I posed the question here, about 10 minutes later, this video shows up in my youtube subscriptions:
The Shared Interests of the Oregon Militia Movement,
"oh? I'll mouse over that"
Koch Brothers and LDS Church.
"oh boy"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0vGjIBK7ww

This is your controlled, leftist "radical" opposition. (don't bother watching, I didn't, the title is what is important.)

I loathe to post it here though, because a lot of smug right wingers, engrossed in their own hatred, will just use it to justify their own racist and hateful ideologies. But hey, let the hate flow. I think this group has the highest amount of people per capita of seeing through it and not getting caught up in it. And I am just here to help those who do care about the truth, justice, and the American way. It is hard to know truth and impossible to know justice in the empire of lies.


Let me put it this way:
If I see signs of division, and actors of division, I will know they are part of the dividers. There is much truth in what they say, that is the function of dis-info and controlled opposition. It must use truth most of the time. But even a 100% truthful news piece can be ALL LIE. Yes, because sometimes, it is what THEY DON'T SAY that determines the truth of something.

So I see actors of Division for what they are, and actors of unity as what they are. The actors of unity are quite rare.

I say they are idiots.

I'm honestly hoping it doesn't go beyond that and they just go away and this is settled peacefully.

An Alamo situation is forced upon you. You don't go around creating an Alamo situation by picking a gun fight against drone gangsters over such a wonky set of circumstances.

I've also been considering what course to take if we start to see "Liberty" Guerillas here in the forest the way we saw Trumpaloompas climb out of their hobbit holes after Ferguson. We can handle Trumpaloompas. They are siding with a guy, however much clown crack he appears to be smoking, who is participating in the political arena. We can handle 20 Trumpaloompas hell bent on setting fire to the political arena.

We can't handle or tolerate 20 guys justifying guerilla warfare and armed sedition as a primary strategy.

We establish a consensus on red lines that the enemy doesn't cross. We don't cross the enemies red lines to establish a consensus.

 

[UWDude]

If I was given freemason/illuminati/lizard people/ZOG/astrological wavelength/bankstercronyacapitalistcorporatistsfascist reigns this moment, I would have the #BlackLivesMatter take some national guard fire, killing a couple, and then do the same to the Bundy camp, be sure at least a couple are killed, especially a woman or child in one.

Now hot heads get hot. The rest are arrested, and the hate simmers a little hotter. Now it is life or death. They get mad at each other for not recognizing eachothers martyrs, instead demonizing them. (remember, I control the media too, so I write the stories, and I publicize the character assassinations of the dead... ..the blacks will be portrayed as thugs, and the whites would be portrayed as rabid racist right wingers.)

then I would roar out an evil laugh, kind of like, MWahahahahahahaha... HA HA HA HA mmmm mmmmhmmm hmmm hmmm.

 

[Uriel999]

If I was given freemason/illuminati/lizard people/ZOG/astrological wavelength/bankstercronyacapitalistcorporatistsfascist reigns this moment, I would have the #BlackLivesMatter take some national guard fire, killing a couple, and then do the same to the Bundy camp, be sure at least a couple are killed, especially a woman or child in one.

Now hot heads get hot. The rest are arrested, and the hate simmers a little hotter. Now it is life or death. They get mad at each other for not recognizing eachothers martyrs, instead demonizing them. (remember, I control the media too, so I write the stories, and I publicize the character assassinations of the dead... ..the blacks will be portrayed as thugs, and the whites would be portrayed as rabid racist right wingers.)

then I would roar out an evil laugh, kind of like, MWahahahahahahaha... HA HA HA HA mmmm mmmmhmmm hmmm hmmm.

But what if they did recognize each others martyrs and they came together realizing their problems are different yet the same...too much government.

 

[Origanalist]

But what if they did recognize each others martyrs and they came together realizing their problems are different yet the same...too much government.

That right now is a very large *if*.

 

[Origanalist]

I say they are idiots.

I'm honestly hoping it doesn't go beyond that and they just go away and this is settled peacefully.

An Alamo situation is forced upon you. You don't go around creating an Alamo situation by picking a gun fight against drone gangsters over such a wonky set of circumstances.

I've also been considering what course to take if we start to see "Liberty" Guerillas here in the forest the way we saw Trumpaloompas climb out of their hobbit holes after Ferguson. We can handle Trumpaloompas. They are siding with a guy, however much clown crack he appears to be smoking, who is participating in the political arena. We can handle 20 Trumpaloompas hell bent on setting fire to the political arena.

We can't handle or tolerate 20 guys justifying guerilla warfare and armed sedition as a primary strategy.

We establish a consensus on red lines that the enemy doesn't cross. We don't cross the enemies red lines to establish a consensus.

So far they have neither fired on anyone or threatened to.

 

[Origanalist]

Money is not important to me. Not filing is.

Already used my rep, THAT is the point.

 

[Mach]

Even if you don't regularly watch Stefan, watch this one, a good, quick Ranch timeline overview.

 

[Thor]

Even if you don't regularly watch Stefan, watch this one, a good, quick Ranch timeline overview.

Thanks, that was a good overview. He did not mention the alleged deer poaching charges, which would be interesting to see addressed. Want to see the next installment he has planned as for the "reasons" the BLM might want to go after them and their land. (I have read some about it, but would like to see him lay it out as well.)

Again, the Bundy's might not have any business being there since it is not their case, or in their state; but because they are there and with their occupation, it is getting covered and talked about far, far more than it would have otherwise. So from that regard, what they did was great to build awareness.

 

[dannno]

Thanks, that was a good overview. He did not mention the alleged deer poaching charges, which would be interesting to see addressed.

lol.. I don't think anarchists are generally too opposed to deer 'poaching' on public lands.

 

[Thor]

lol.. I don't think anarchists are generally too opposed to deer 'poaching' on public lands.

True, but it was supposedly part of the argument the government used against them in the reason for the "arson", so should be addressed at least.

 

[dannno]

True, but it was supposedly part of the argument the government used against them in the reason for the "arson", so should be addressed at least.

Is there really any evidence these were anything other than controlled burns, the same kind that the BLM does on their own land?

So the government is claiming they burned the BLM land so they could commit the crime of poaching deer?

 

[Thor]

Why are you calling it arson? These were controlled burns, the same kind that the BLM does on their own land.

Did you notice the quotes I used around the word "arson"? That is indicative of the claim of others, but not what I necessarily subscribe to or agree with.

So the government is claiming they burned the BLM land so they could commit the crime of poaching deer?

From what I read, the government claims they poached deer and there were witnesses to the poaching, and then set a fire - a.k.a. "arson" as it is called by the government - to cover up the poaching, and the fire got out of control and burned BLM land... I am not saying that is what happened, but if it was part of the "case" as I saw reported elsewhere (which could be fictitious - but here it is below.)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/

What the feds say

Acting U.S. Attorney Billy J. Williams of Oregon gave a starkly different perspective on the arson case. (here it is being called "arson")

His office declined to comment on the situation at the wildlife refuge Saturday, but it cited an opinion piece written by Williams in the Burns Times Herald last month defending the federal prosecutors' actions in the Hammonds case.

"Five years ago, a federal grand jury charged Dwight and Steven Hammond with committing arson (again) on public lands and endangering firefighters," Williams wrote for the newspaper. "Steven Hammond was also found guilty of committing a second arson (again) in 2006."

The prosecutor said witnesses saw the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer on public land.

"At least seven deer were shot with others limping or running from the scene," Williams wrote. (another article called it "poaching")

He said a teenage relative of the Hammonds testified that Steven Hammond gave him a box of matches and told him to start the blaze. "The fires destroyed evidence of the deer slaughter and took about 130 acres of public land out of public use for two years," the prosecutor wrote.

Williams also disputed the notion that the Hammonds were prosecuted as terrorists, as Bundy suggested.

"The jury was neither asked if the Hammonds were terrorists, nor were defendants ever charged with or accused of terrorism," Williams wrote. "Suggesting otherwise is simply flat-out wrong." (and we know he is dancing with his words here, as it appears the jury was not instructed of the Anti-terrorism Act of 1996 they were tried under, but he knows that is what they were being penalized for if found guilty and thus the whole 5 year minimum sentence they are enforcing.)

Therefore, to me, it would be interesting to see the "poaching" addressed as part of the overall summary of history of events.

 

[vita3]

How many folks who had no idea about the Federal land grab, got informed because of this Oregon stunt??

 

[nobody's_hero]

Lou Dobb just did a couple segments on the Hammonds on the Fox Business channel.
First and only proper mainstream coverage I've seen yet!

Dobbs is real pissed - says they're persecuting the two ranchers, ridiculous to charge them as terrorists, and the US attorney that re-sentenced them is "beneath contempt". Apparently the jury was not made aware that they were trying the ranchers on terrorism charges? He's asking "Where's Oregon's congressional delegation?" "Why isn't anyone standing up for these ranchers?" and quoting Madison.

Also interviewed John O'Keefe who is the head of the Oregon Cattleman's Association. All agree the Bundy's shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

Guys, at this point I have to say, I don't think this story would be getting covered at all in my part of the country if the Bundy's hadn't done something conspicuous. I live in the east, and we have no concept of how ranching works out there in the wide open spaces. Too easy to fool us! I only know what I know about it now, because I read what you all say and then did some research.

Everything gets tried on terrorism charges these days which is a travesty in itself.

If you leave a baby locked in a hot car, then frankly you are a pretty scummy person and if the infant dies then you are at the very least guilty of some degree of manslaughter. But it doesn't make you a terrorist.

If you start a back-burn on some over-grown land to try to save your property from an encroaching fire and it gets out of control, then it, at most, makes you careless. But it doesn't make you a terrorist.

"Terrorism" is the most liberally applied charge in our lifetime. The notion that the family was tried and found guilty on charges meant to apply to acts of terrorism is little more than government using a 'trigger word' to turn public sentiment against the accused before the gavel has even dropped, and it works to the government's favor most of the time, unfortunately.

EDIT: Even if the Hammonds were not tried and found guilty on acts of terrorism, as the Feds now claim, the appealing attorneys seem to want them to be re-sentenced according to the Anti-Terrorism act of 1996, which I say fails the constitutional sniff test on all counts. You can't be sentenced for a charge you weren't found guilty of, and if they WERE found guilty according to the Anti-Terrorism act, then it shouldn't have applied to their case anyway, since they weren't committing terrorism.

The Feds seem to want it both ways here, and their self-contradictions are deafening.

 

[tod evans]

Watched a newz blurb on CNN this morning and they showed some grayhaired rancher who made sense, he said the group was there to work. Specifically work to improve life for residents of that county whose livelihoods had been negatively affected by the feds...

Of course being CNN they had to include statements (made anonymously of course) from government supporters...

 

[phill4paul]

You better be careful with that... It's going to catch up to you. My brother in law is serving 25 years in prison for not reporting his income

We all must draw our line somewhere.

 

[Slave Mentality]

Money is not important to me. Not filing is.

Exactly, taking money from the system is worse than involuntarily putting it in as far as legitimizing theft of labor.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phill4paul again.

 

[phill4paul]

If they need to re-supply they better do so soon.

Authorities plan to cut off power to militia at occupied Oregon refuge

Federal authorities are planning to cut off the power of the wildlife refuge in Oregon that has been taken over by militia , exposing the armed occupiers to sub-zero temperatures in an effort to flush them out.

Armed militants will begin their third day at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a remote federal outpost in eastern Oregon, on Tuesday, and have vowed to remain for months in protest over the treatment of two local cattle ranchers.

A federal government official told the Guardian that authorities were planning on Monday to cut the power at the refuge.

“It’s in the middle of nowhere,” said the official, who is based in Washington, DC, and has knowledge of the planned response to the militia. “And it’s flat-ass cold up there.”

The official, who asked not to be named, said they were not privy to the FBI’s plan of action. However, they said the US Park Service, which is leading the crisis management reaction to the occupation in liaison with the FBI, planned to cut the power to the building where the militiamen are spending their nights.

Any such move would mark a significant escalation in the crisis. The local sheriff, FBI and other law enforcement officials have so far held back from confronting the militia, who are heavily armed and have lookouts on a watchtower.

The militia have said they do not want a violent confrontation but made clear they are armed and prepared for the arrival of law enforcement officials. However, it appears that federal authorities were planning to use the power cut, and an attempt to starve the militia of supplies, in order to force them out.

“After they shut off the power, they’ll kill the phone service,” the government official added. “Then they’ll block all the roads so that all those guys have a long, lonely winter to think about what they’ve done.”

Snowstorms are expected in the wilderness surrounding the refuge on Tuesday, which is some 30 miles from the town of Burns. At night, temperatures are forecast to plummet to -8C (18F).

The militia, numbering few more than a dozen, have been building fires to stay warm and have been sleeping in the building usually used by the US Fish and Wildlife Service, which runs the refuge for wild birds.

Reached by phone around 10.30pm on Monday, Ammon Bundy, a key member of the the militia, said electricity in the refuge building was still functioning. He added: “We’re ready and waiting if the power should be shut down.”

Bundy has repeatedly said the group is prepared for the long-haul. However during a tour of the site earlier in the day, the Guardian was shown a food storage room that did not look like it could sustain a dozen men for more than a few weeks.

It included a cardboard box of apples and oranges, a few dozen pots of instant ramen, 24 cans of chicken noodle soup, a similar number of cans of sweetcorn, peas, beans and chili, and 20 boxes of macaroni and cheese.

There were also three sacks of potatoes, one bag of flour, another of rolled oats, boxes of raisins, a single bag of pretzels and one granola bar.

Calling themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, the militia appears to be led by Ammon Bundy, who has been joined at the refuge by his two brothers, Mel and Ryan. The trio are sons of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy who was at the heart of a similar standoff with authorities in 2014.

In an interview on Monday, Cliven Bundy distanced himself from the takeover of the federal parks building spearheaded by his sons.

He said that he was aware of the planned weekend protest in rural Oregon but did not know that the militia planned to splinter away from a peaceful demonstration and forcefully take over the facility.

When asked if he would have condoned the takeover, he laughed.

“I would have questioned them,” he said of his three sons, who are all at the standoff. “What are you doing, taking over property?”

Cliven Bundy, who for years has faced off with the BLM over grazing rights near his ranch in southern Nevada, said he stands behind the spirit of the occupation in Oregon.

“They went up there because we have an abusive federal system that is out of control,” he said. “We’re there in support of ranching families who have been harassed by the federal government for years out here.”

Cliven Bundy said that he is largely in the dark about the circumstances of the ongoing occupation and that he receives a call from one of his sons once a day with word of their well-being. “I have three sons up there,” he said. “I want to know that they’re OK.”

He said his sons researched the dispute involving the Hammonds for months before planning their protest. “We found out they were good people – well-liked in the community,” he said.

Cliven Bundy said that as far as he knew, his sons weren’t armed. He said that if any violence takes place at the standoff, it will come because of an overzealous government reaction.

“This is a peaceful protest,” he said. “It’s our first amendment right to peaceful assembly and protest. And my boys have done that. They haven’t destroyed any property. They have not infringed upon anyone’s rights.”

Bundy said he did not know how long his sons would remain in the area or how long the standoff would continue. “I want to be there,” he said, adding that he was baffled that the local schools had cancelled classes for the week in light of the armed standoff.

“I’d go visit with the sheriff and the school officials and tell them what’s on my mind. I’d say, ‘Why shut the school down? That’s just fear-mongering.’

“There is no indication that this is anything other than a peaceful protest,” he added.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/aut...f-power-to-militia-at-occupied-oregon-refuge/