Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

[Badger Paul]

As I said, the Bundys didn't do a damn thing during the Bush II even though the dispute with the Feds goes back to 1993. But now they want to play Johnny Reb? Hmmm, I wonder why? War against West? You think it started yesterday? Ever heard of the Sagebrush Rebellion? This has been going for 40 f'ing years! The Feds are supposed to negotiate a peaceful settlement with the Bundys to avoid Waco-style bloodshed while others are gunned down in the street by the local cops and videos are suppressed. You may think it has nothing to do with race but this lack of empathy with other people's struggle's with oppression only makes the disputes between ranchers and the BLM petty by comparison. If you don't believe in broad front again repression by any form of the state, not just the federal government, then don't be surprised at how isolated your cause will become. As I said, the Bundys didn't speak up after Ferguson, who is going to speak up for them other than the same people?

 

[phill4paul]

I'm quite confident in it.

That's all they know.

I'm sure Harry Reid is ecstatic at the prospect of a Dorner bombfire.

 

[pcosmar]

If, going into an operation it becomes clear that by carrying out your plan it will make things worse, then stop, reassess, and figure out something else to do that won't make matters worse.

Do you read the future? I am not seeing failure at this point.. though that certainly is possible.

anything other than maintaining the status quo requires the risk of failure.. but there are also chances for success.

 

[pcosmar]

this illustrates the point completely, these "militia" groups are mislead, out of touch, clueless and they are probably coop-teed already. It doesn't help they have tons of guns and are willing to die for whatever stupid reason they are told.

And you are either quite ignorant of facts,, or deliberately dishonest.

How many people died in the last confrontation? The one at the Bundy Ranch,, when 200 well armed ,,tactically trained and equipped mercenaries were routed..

By some of these same men.

Not a shot fired from the ignorant trigger happy rednecks.. (I see them differently)

 

[pcosmar]

This situation reeks of deception. I'd put my money on federal agent provocateurs being the ones making this happen - and just in time, too, for Obama's executive (AKA lawless) action on gun control to be revealed. A bloodbath here would be the perfect script - so perfect, it must be scripted.

What bloodbath?

and who's blood?

Who died last time?

 

[Lucille]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-03/oregon-standoff-terrible-plan-we-might-be-stuck

Ammon, apparently trying to recreate what cannot be recreated, is looking for another Bundy Ranch stand-off. First, I would point out that such events can't be artificially fabricated. They have to happen in an organic way. Whenever a group of people attempt to engineer a revolutionary moment, even if their underlying motivations are righteous, it usually ends up kicking them in the ass (Fort Sumter is a good example). Ammon's wingmen appear to be Blaine Cooper aka Stanley Blaine Hicks (a convicted felon), and Ryan Payne (who claimed falsely during the Bundy Ranch standoff that he was an Army Ranger and who worked diligently to cause divisions between involved parties on the ground). This was the first sign that nothing good was going to come from the Hammond protest.

 

[pcosmar]

As I said, the Bundys didn't do a damn thing during the Bush II even though the dispute with the Feds goes back to 1993. But now they want to play Johnny Reb? Hmmm, I wonder why? War against West? You think it started yesterday? Ever heard of the Sagebrush Rebellion? This has been going for 40 f'ing years! The Feds are supposed to negotiate a peaceful settlement with the Bundys to avoid Waco-style bloodshed while others are gunned down in the street by the local cops and videos are suppressed. You may think it has nothing to do with race but this lack of empathy with other people's struggle's with oppression only makes the disputes between ranchers and the BLM petty by comparison. If you don't believe in broad front again repression by any form of the state, not just the federal government, then don't be surprised at how isolated your cause will become. As I said, the Bundys didn't speak up after Ferguson, who is going to speak up for them other than the same people?

I would say that everyone (of sound mind and body) should join the fight against the beast where ever they are.
same beast in Ferguson and Nevada and Oregon.

BLM or Fusion Center makes little difference, just different arms of the beast.

 

[JK/SEA]

from Facebook.

Gavin Seim: It appears some 3% groups are actually opposing the Oregon patriots stand and supporting a terrorist goverment by opposing liberty (whether intentional or not).

Now let me be more clear. I'm not saying all these folks are loyalists. But I appeal to these groups to be bold for liberty.
Be careful your group is not infiltrated by loyalists. But also that good as good intentioned patriots, we do not support the terrorist goverment inadvertently by in fighting and fear. Hold leadership accountable and remember the message is liberty, not faction. We can unite.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Y'all know it is possible for someone to say that "this one op is a bad idea" without being a fed stooge.

 

[JK/SEA]

Y'all know it is possible for someone to say that "this one op is a bad idea" without being a fed stooge.

and its also possible that this OP can bear fruit in spite of the lack of support from III.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rmed-standoff-oregon-federal-building-n489606

 

[GunnyFreedom]

And you are either quite ignorant of facts,, or deliberately dishonest.

How many people died in the last confrontation? The one at the Bundy Ranch,, when 200 well armed ,,tactically trained and equipped mercenaries were routed..

By some of these same men.

Not a shot fired from the ignorant trigger happy rednecks.. (I see them differently)

You do know that a whole stinkin bunch of militia members who totally supported (and even participated in!) the Bundy Ranch op, do not support this one, right?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Do you read the future? I am not seeing failure at this point.. though that certainly is possible.

anything other than maintaining the status quo requires the risk of failure.. but there are also chances for success.

I'm actually reading the present. All the good will that was won over the Bundy Ranch has already been pissed away. The entire set of Oregon militia members, most of whom actively participated at Bundy Ranch and Sugar Pines Mine, do not support this Ammon Bundy op. Metric pluck-tons of people I know personally who had gained respect for the militias after Bundy Ranch now want to see them "mowed down" or bombed with drones.

You don't have to look at the future to see what's happening right the hell now. This is already extremely counterproductive.

 

[JK/SEA]

You do know that a whole stinkin bunch of militia members who totally supported (and even participated in!) the Bundy Ranch op, do not support this one, right?

so?...doesn't mean they are right, right?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

so?...doesn't mean they are right, right?

And opposing Ammon Bundy doesn't make anyone wrong either.

However, there is a far stronger argument that says if the entire breadth of all the Oregon militias do not want you to conduct an op in Oregon, don't.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

and its also possible that this OP can bear fruit in spite of the lack of support from III.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rmed-standoff-oregon-federal-building-n489606

The damage is already done. The feds are chuckling with glee. The entire American militia movement has been set back 20 years.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

This totally makes my point. After Bundy Ranch, the militias had managed to build up some good will. Now, every bit of that is squandered and we are worse off than we were before the Bundy Ranch.

Thanks to this event, the cops could probably go door to door dragging out militia members by the hair and executing them in their driveways and America by and large will heap adulation on the police.

Rule #1, if what you want to do is going to make things worse, then do something else.

They were calling for the slaughter of those at the Bundy Ranch as well.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

They were calling for the slaughter of those at the Bundy Ranch as well.

Not to even a fraction of the degree or the quantity of people as they are now. Face it, this was a bad idea. The Bundy Ranch op advanced the American Militia movement by 5 years, and the Ammon Bundy op has set us back 20.

Just because someone is "doing something" does not auto-magically make it a good thing.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Not to even a fraction of the degree or the quantity of people as they are now. Face it, this was a bad idea. The Bundy Ranch op advanced the American Militia movement by 5 years, and the Ammon Bundy op has set us back 20.

Just because someone is "doing something" does not auto-magically make it a good thing.

Yawn.

No, practically every progressive on the Internet was calling for everything from a storming of the ranch to a drone strike. Same as they are now.

Your opinions are just that: opinions. Or do you have a scientific measurement to quantify the exact progress and regression of the militia movement? You throw out a lot of numbers which, from here, sound like complete bullshit.

You don't like what they are doing? Do something else. Something else aside from whining, preferably.

 

[phill4paul]

The damage is already done. The feds are chuckling with glee. The entire American militia movement has been set back 20 years.

While I don't think they are in the right for conducting this Op in other militias backyard I don't think you can quantify the effect this has had. At least not yet. It certainly has done a bang up job of dividing the militias and independent operators. I don't know if that was the purpose though or why they would do such.

 

[The Gold Standard]

anything other than maintaining the status quo requires the risk of failure.. but there are also chances for success.

I think that is his point. What could possibly come of this that is considered a success? They hold the building until the government relinquishes their claim on it? How likely is that?

If the feds kill all of them, the overwhelming majority of Boobus will cheer and it may incite them to call for their masters to crack down on all anti-government sentiment. They could be martyrs too, but to whom? The local militias up there don't even want them involved.