Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

[chudrockz]

We're just gonna have to see things differently on this, kc. This is not their backyard. It's not their hard earned acceptance by the locals. There were plenty of places in Nevada they could have whipped their dick out.

True, but as long as they're pissing on the fedcoats, their penises have my support.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

We're just gonna have to see things differently on this, kc. This is not their backyard. It's not their hard earned acceptance by the locals. There were plenty of places in Nevada they could have whipped their dick out.

Maybe they should have, then.

If they come knocking on my door let it be known that all are welcomed to come in defense of my liberty. The voters can come, out of staters, immigrants.... the more the merrier.

People would probably just cheer though. And jerk off to CNN rhetoric. Or not give a fuck one way or another. This is why we'll never have nice things. Probably predestination (or genetics) so I won't get too upset about it.

It's a brave new world and maybe I should just come to terms with that.

Anyways, happy New Years. I'm sure we'd get along just fine over a couple of pints.

 

[Thor]

It would be nice to get a full scope of the story from an unbiased party, charges originally for each fire, defense they used, and how they can be retried (or have a sentence added) without being subject to double jeopardy. If anyone has more in-depth knowledge of these events, please share...

This does not talk about the "poaching", but help fill in some historical information (if accurate) for sure:

The short summary is: in an effort to draw attention to a ridiculous arrest of a father and son pair of Oregon Ranchers (“Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46,) who are scheduled to begin five year prison sentences (turning themselves in tomorrow January 4th 2016), three brothers from the Cliven Bundy family and approximately 100/150 (and growing) heavily armed militia (former U.S. service members) have taken control of Malheur Wildlife Refuge Headquarters in the wildlife reserve. They are prepared to stay there indefinitely.

Here’s the long version: including history, details, links video(s) and explanations:

HISTORY: (aa) The Harney Basin (were the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.

(ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

(a) In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.

(a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.

Continued here, and it is long...

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...uge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/

 

[Uriel999]

HossUSMC on this:



His opinion is interesting because he was at Bundy Ranch

 

[Anti Federalist]

Yes. But that's counting on the feds to make that strategic mistake. I doubt they will.

I'm quite confident in it.

That's all they know.

 

[Anti Federalist]

True, but as long as they're pissing on the fedcoats, their penises have my support.

And that's pretty much where I am at as well.

 

[thoughtomator]

This situation reeks of deception. I'd put my money on federal agent provocateurs being the ones making this happen - and just in time, too, for Obama's executive (AKA lawless) action on gun control to be revealed. A bloodbath here would be the perfect script - so perfect, it must be scripted.

 

[Anti Federalist]

“Mow them Down,” Americans Once Critical of Police Killings Now Beg Feds to “Slaughter” US Citizens

By Matt Agorist on January 3, 2016   


http://tftppull.freethoughtllc.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/oregon-militiamen-hammond-bundy.jpg
oregon-militiamen-hammond-bundy

Princeton, OR — On Saturday, multiple armed ‘militiamen’ took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ to protest the sentence handed down to two Oregon ranchers accused of arson.

The ranchers accused of arson are Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon. They were each sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for alleged arsons they committed on federal lands.

According to the Washington Standard, the problem is multifaceted.


First, both men were sentenced in 2012 by now-retired U.S. District Judge Michael Hogan, following the trial. Steven received one year and a day in prison for setting fires in 2001 and 2006. Dwight got 3 months for his 2001 involvement. Hogan did not believe the men had malicious intent to be labeled as terrorists under theAntiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, even though he sentenced them to jail for the time he did.

The men agreed to a plea deal that they would not appeal the 2012 sentence in order to bring the case to a close.

Both men served their sentences and were released. Now, the feds have appealed those sentences and want the mandatory minimum five-year sentence imposed on the men, and so they appealed to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, who agreed with the feds that the judge ruled illegally. However, now they are wanting to label the Hammonds as terrorists under the 1996 law in order to put them back in jail.

Aside from being thrown in jail for a second time, the Hammonds are upset because they allege no crime was ever committed.

“They called and got permission to light the fire… We usually called the interagency fire outfit – a main dispatch – to be sure someone wasn’t in the way or that weather wouldn’t be a problem,” said Dwight’s wife Susan.

In a post to their blog, the Bundy family explained that the Hammonds were merely engaging in prescribed burns to keep the land healthy and productive. And, they assert that the Bureau of Land Management also conducts these burns.

The Hammonds lit a fire on their own property that spread to public land. No one was injured, no property was destroyed and the Hammond extinguished the fire themselves, according to the Bundys. The court even ruled that the fires actually had a positive impact on the land.

“With no authority or justification to prosecute, eleven years after the fire, federal attorneys have obtained judgment that the Hammonds are terrorists and must be punished severely for their actions,” explains the Bundy Family.

On November 3rd, the Bundys issued a warning, which stated,


We further warn that the incarceration of the Hammond family will spawn serious civil unrest. We advocate that all charges be dropped and that the Hammond family be allowed to return to the home and life that was so rudely interrupted. The Hammond family has paid enough for this mistake, if any mistake at all. Further punishments to the Hammonds will require restitution upon those who inflict the injustices.

We call upon aware citizens and government officials to promote the protection and freedom of the Hammond family, and by so doing, maintaining the spirit of liberty that this beloved nation is built upon.

Two months after this warning, the Bundys held true to what they wrote when they, and several other armed citizens, took over the refuge HQ.

The Bundys and the Hammonds allege that what the federal government is doing, by using the BLM to dictate the use of open lands, is a violation of the constitution. They now claim to have taken defensive action, after they allege criminal action on behalf of the federal government.

While the Bundys and the Hammonds actions are certainly questionable, they haven’t harmed anyone or any property. Regardless of your position on the action of the ‘militiamen,’ one thing is certain – every one of them deserves due process.

Over the past 2 years, a peaceful resistance to police brutality and misconduct has risen up in the United States. This resistance is entirely bipartisan, although some will attempt to claim otherwise for their own political agendas.



On both the right and the left, there have been heartening examples of unlikely groups of citizens coming together to peacefully resist the police state. However, there are also those on both sides who dangerously call for violence, the removal of due process, and the use of state force to implement their own version of tyranny.

In the past few months, examples of the neoconservatives’ calls for fascism have shocked those who are paying attention to the rise of tyranny in the U.S.

Donald Trump epitomized this fascism when he called for banning all Muslims entering the US and shutting down the internet last month. The resultant bandwagon of hate and ignorance has led to a slew of internet comments calling for turning the entire Middle East region into a “parking lot.”

However, this time, instead of the far right calling for insanely violent police state measures, it’s the far left. It appears that some of those on the left have thrown all logic and reason to the wayside and have begun calling, not only for the removal of due process for their fellow Americans, but also for their full-on slaughter.

On various Facebook posts about the militiamen, multiple antagonists claiming to ‘support Bernie Sanders’ and declaring their ‘peaceful Democratic stances’ have called for the murder of those men, women, and children at the Oregon refuge.

Bernie Sanders would certainly not agree that it is okay to drone strike American citizens without due process.

Those who call for violence against others, who have not harmed anyone, are the epitome of all that is wrong in the world today. Regardless of your political views, or positions on issues, denying due process, even to the vilest of criminals, is the work of tyrants.

The irony here is that the folks on the left want to use the same violence, which they ostensibly oppose when not used in a manner they see fit, on people who they disagree with.

Below are some of the shocking comments from supposed ‘peaceful’ people who are calling for the slaughter of others.

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/mo...-feds-slaughter-citizens/#xwxMlPOZBzj3eHlX.99

 

[osan]

“This is an example of gross government overreach, and the public should be outraged.

But they are not. They could give a tinker's damn. So long as they can text and drive at the same time, the world can burn for all they care.

This is why we are in such deep trouble and partly why I believe there is no solution here that does not involve the shedding of blood. That is what we have done to ourselves.

Comment from federal attorney Billy Williams:

“We all know the devastating effects that are caused by wildfires. Fires intentionally and illegally set on public lands, even those in a remote area, threaten property and residents and endanger firefighters called to battle the blaze” stated Acting U.S. Attorney Billy Williams. “Congress sought to ensure that anyone who maliciously damages United States’ property by fire will serve at least 5 years in prison. These sentences are intended to be long enough to deter those like the Hammonds who disregard the law and place fire fighters and others in jeopardy.”

Oregon Farm Bureau President Barry Bushue’s response:

“BLM accused the Hammonds of endangering lives, but a jury found they did not. Saying they ‘intentionally’ set fire to public land or threatened lives is not what the jury concluded. Federal attorney Billy Williams is wrong in his overblown statements in court yesterday. But he has helped frame the debate as we start to look at BLM’s own actions. If Williams’ rhetoric is the standard, BLM will have a lot of explaining to do, far beyond what they’ve done in this case,” said OFB President Barry Bushue.

–Oregon Farm Bureau

Empty assertion that will almost certainly be proven false. They will be held to account for nothing. Who will hold them so when all their corrupt brethren in the relevant governmental agencies will see to it they are shielded? Answer: nobody.

Let us be serious.

 

[The Gold Standard]

This situation reeks of deception. I'd put my money on federal agent provocateurs being the ones making this happen - and just in time, too, for Obama's executive (AKA lawless) action on gun control to be revealed. A bloodbath here would be the perfect script - so perfect, it must be scripted.

Something does smell funny about it.

 

[Miss Annie]

This situation reeks of deception. I'd put my money on federal agent provocateurs being the ones making this happen - and just in time, too, for Obama's executive (AKA lawless) action on gun control to be revealed. A bloodbath here would be the perfect script - so perfect, it must be scripted.

Totally agree with this.

 

[wizardwatson]

"So what do the militia intend to accomplish by taking the building?"

Martyrdom, just like ISIS.

Martyrs for stupidity, just like ISIS.

 

[Dianne]

The benefits are putting minerals back into the ground, i.e.; potassium. It will also make soil more alkaline if too acidic.

Thanks, I wasn't sure. As I reflect back, I do remember seeing lots of fields burned. At least, now I know why.

 

[Dianne]

This does not talk about the "poaching", but help fill in some historical information (if accurate) for sure:



Continued here, and it is long...

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...uge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/

That all makes sense now. Another land grab, much like the 12 million people who lost their homes to foreclosure by the Fed run Fannie Mae. After the Feds confessed the foreclosures were done fraudulently and illegally, they so kindly sent the homeowners a $500. check for any inconvenience they may have suffered as a result.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

HossUSMC on this:

His opinion is interesting because he was at Bundy Ranch

He was also at the Sugar Pine Mine in Oregon, which is kind of a big deal.

His rationale is pretty much the same as I've given except he focuses more on NIMBY and less on probability of success. He did mention one thing I didn't know, that the Oregon Militias also do not want them there. And looking up-thread it seems the Oregon militias -- not even participating in this -- are already getting widely demonized. This is going to set the militia movement back 10-20 years and leave this beast government more powerful and more secure in their despotism. Sometimes I think I might just be more of a "cassandra" than even Ron Paul was.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

“Mow them Down,” Americans Once Critical of Police Killings Now Beg Feds to “Slaughter” US Citizens

By Matt Agorist on January 3, 2016   

However, this time, instead of the far right calling for insanely violent police state measures, it’s the far left. It appears that some of those on the left have thrown all logic and reason to the wayside and have begun calling, not only for the removal of due process for their fellow Americans, but also for their full-on slaughter.

On various Facebook posts about the militiamen, multiple antagonists claiming to ‘support Bernie Sanders’ and declaring their ‘peaceful Democratic stances’ have called for the murder of those men, women, and children at the Oregon refuge.

Bernie Sanders would certainly not agree that it is okay to drone strike American citizens without due process.

Those who call for violence against others, who have not harmed anyone, are the epitome of all that is wrong in the world today. Regardless of your political views, or positions on issues, denying due process, even to the vilest of criminals, is the work of tyrants.

The irony here is that the folks on the left want to use the same violence, which they ostensibly oppose when not used in a manner they see fit, on people who they disagree with.

Below are some of the shocking comments from supposed ‘peaceful’ people who are calling for the slaughter of others.

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/mo...-feds-slaughter-citizens/#xwxMlPOZBzj3eHlX.99

This totally makes my point. After Bundy Ranch, the militias had managed to build up some good will. Now, every bit of that is squandered and we are worse off than we were before the Bundy Ranch.

Thanks to this event, the cops could probably go door to door dragging out militia members by the hair and executing them in their driveways and America by and large will heap adulation on the police.

Rule #1, if what you want to do is going to make things worse, then do something else.

 

[squarepusher]

This totally makes my point. After Bundy Ranch, the militias had managed to build up some good will. Now, every bit of that is squandered and we are worse off than we were before the Bundy Ranch.

Thanks to this event, the cops could probably go door to door dragging out militia members by the hair and executing them in their driveways and America by and large will heap adulation on the police.

Rule #1, if what you want to do is going to make things worse, then do something else.

this illustrates the point completely, these "militia" groups are mislead, out of touch, clueless and they are probably coop-teed already. It doesn't help they have tons of guns and are willing to die for whatever stupid reason they are told.

 

[nobody's_hero]

Ummmm,

One group called for more government, government funding, government enforcement, government investigations and special privileges granted by government...

The other is telling government to go away.

Winner winner chicken dinners for life.

 

[nobody's_hero]

"Now, if you want to discuss why some stories catch support like this, and why some don't, I'm sure anyone's guess would be as good as the next guy's, but I'm thinking you can rule out race."

No, I will not because there's a double standard and you know there's one. Did you support the black students at Missouri or Princeton taking control of buildings or disrupting classes or conducting a strike before a football game? Do you like it when Black Lives Matter blocks an intersection and holds back traffic? I'm not just talking about Oathkeepers. I seriously doubt there is a lot of support for such actions among the militia community, not too mention the wider white community for it either.

But takeover a federal building with guns drawn? Hey, yeah! We're just exercising our constitutional rights while those BLM types need to be put in jail or expelled from school.

I'm tired of this crap. If there was a broad-based, multi-racial movement against police abuse and corruption and federal overreach it would be beautiful. But no, there isn't. One group demands the other be prosecuted to fullest extent of the law and then insists it has the right to break such law whenever it wishes because its "unconstitutional." So is being shot in the back trying to flee police, but I don't see the militias taking over police stations do I? No, we know what you hate and it's the federal government head by the not 100 percent white person in the White House with the foreign sounding name who might be a Muslim and may never have been a citizen to begin with. Certainly the Bundys didn't sieze any federal buildings when Bush II was President even though the dispute they've had with government goes back to 1993!

I know that sometimes this forum starts looking like a Huffpo comment section because there are certain RPF members who use cries of racism to try to shut down debate. It's tiresome and intellectually lazy.

The BLM is and has been conducting a war on ranchers and farmers out west. That's what we're discussing. If you want to discuss the wisdom of taking over a federal office then I'll grant that I don't think it's particularly well-thought-out, considering Ammon Bundy didn't even provide any demands during an interview. He says they're just 'gonna stay there for years.' Maybe he was drunk and it seemed like a good idea at the time. But I don't recall him mentioning anything about race in the interview, so why bring that up?

And I don't give a flipping fuck whether government is headed by a corrupt 100%-white man, a corrupt 50%-black man, or a corrupt 100%-black man. Maybe you ought not pretend to know me and instead go post some comments in a DailyKoz circle jerk.

 

[XNavyNuke]

this illustrates the point completely, these "militia" groups are mislead, out of touch, clueless and they are probably coop-teed already. It doesn't help they have tons of guns and are willing to die for whatever stupid reason they are told.

Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training. Now please step this way, as we provide you with our final test......

If you bother to study history, but bring your presentistic blinders, don't be surprised when the red ink flows on the final exam.



XNN