Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm posting newz blurbs as they pop up, trying to present non-MSM perspective.

It sure seems to me that the Bundy's haven't set out to wage a battle that anybody could win or lose, they're effectively squatting..

On federal property, as a militia, with weapons.

You do not go into an op of any kind without a plan for victory.

If all he wanted was to make a protest that's a lot different. Leave the weapons and the tactical gear at home, chain yourselves to the buildings and start singing "we shall overcome" and then it's something else entirely and it's not going to be counterproductive to this case.

Have you listened to the 20 min. video yet? Bundy doesn't sound like a warrior psyching up for battle to me...

Even more reason why bringing an armed and equipped militia into this is a bad idea.

 

[Pericles]

Good for them.

At least somebody is doing something.

As patton said, good tactics can mitigate a bad strategy, and bad tactics can doom even the best strategy.

 

[libertyjam]

But what, exactly, are they doing? I'm all for taking up arms, but making the situation worse is not helpful. Just doing something to be doing something is not strategically beneficial. I don't rightly give a flying fart what the BLM thinks or even, to be honest, what "the public" thinks except insofar as its strategic place in accomplishing the goal of relaxing the grip of federal tyranny.

If an action is going to be counterproductive, then my advice is to find a different action to take that will actually be productive.

And you still apparently haven't watched the video.

here it is again since you cannot seem to find it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7M0mG6HUyk&ab_channel=AmmonBundy

If you have something constructive for him, maybe just contact Ammon directly, he might pay attention.

 

[Pericles]

Gotcha. It was really just a quick google which I thought might present a better atmosphere for militia action. Thanks for the info.

One phone call, and just about every militia in Texas will be on the Red River. One of the reasons that would happen is because we know 70% of the people of Texas would support that action and the state government would not stand in the way. In fact, that might even prompt the governor to arm the State Guard and incorporate militias into the State Guard.

 

[Anti Federalist]

What does that mean?

It means you better vote harder, since you disapprove of confronting the system in the manner these people are.

 

[tod evans]

On federal property, as a militia, with weapons.

You do not go into an op of any kind without a plan for victory.

If all he wanted was to make a protest that's a lot different. Leave the weapons and the tactical gear at home, chain yourselves to the buildings and start singing "we shall overcome" and then it's something else entirely and it's not going to be counterproductive to this case.



Even more reason why bringing an armed and equipped militia into this is a bad idea.

I've been reading about this most of the day and until you started with the perspective I hadn't heard anybody else referring to what Bundy is doing as a battle/war or "op"...

From what I know what they've done has been purely reactionary after getting shut down by the Hammonds.....But I honestly don't know..

I do however assume after the last televised interaction with the BLM on their own property that Bundy is at least cognizant about setting up a defense or staging an offence.....

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Don't be stupid. This government doesn't prosecute their own, but putting it on the public record makes it impossible to carry out the action threatened.

What I'm saying is that it's bullshit. Federal Prosecutors don't tell you to make a political statement or face harsher confinement.

Do you accuse everyone with a brain and the ability to carry out deductive reasoning of being a sheep?

Is this the case where the government came back and said he had not served enough time after he served the time given to him?

Irwin Schiff, what happened to him?

Now regardless of if they explicitly told him to make that statement, after years of harassment and a prison sentence over your head, one might be implicitly coerced into doing or saying things they otherwise might not have done/said.

Maybe he'd rather not be moved so far away from his family as to make visitation practically impossible? Vindictive cocksuckers that they are, it's easy to see why making waves might not be what he thinks is in his best interest.

Regardless, it isn't just about the Hammonds.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Regardless, it isn't just about the Hammonds.

Yes, this.

 

[Pericles]

And you still apparently haven't watched the video.

here it is again since you cannot seem to find it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7M0mG6HUyk&ab_channel=AmmonBundy

If you have something constructive for him, maybe just contact Ammon directly, he might pay attention.

As the liberty movement has no formal mechanisms for decision making, things happen on the basis of personal relationships. Aamon and Ryan Payne have a strong personal relationship, and in this regard, they do not compensate for each other's weaknesses and strengths, but amplify them due to similar personality types.

 

[Anti Federalist]

But what, exactly, are they doing?

Poking the beast in the eye.

I'm always in favor of things that do that.

It makes the beast act like what it is, gloves off.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

As patton said, good tactics can mitigate a bad strategy, and bad tactics can doom even the best strategy.

Patton also said to shoot dead protesters and leave their bodies in the street.

 

[tod evans]

On the other hand, Patton criticized Eisenhower's approach to the Nazis, and yet that didn't mean Patton wanted the Nazis to win. You can't logically presume that anyone who doesn't think this specific operation is a good idea therefore is fine with the BLM bullshit.

I presume that oft times doing the wrong thing works out better than doing nothing.

It's apparent that you could provide needed tactical advice to those guys..........

 

[GunnyFreedom]

And you still apparently haven't watched the video.

Since I watched it on fedbook before it was even posted on RPFs, your assumptions demonstrate the presumptive nature of your thinking here.

here it is again since you cannot seem to find it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7M0mG6HUyk&ab_channel=AmmonBundy

If you have something constructive for him, maybe just contact Ammon directly, he might pay attention.

Well rule #1 in any kind of struggle is "don't make things worse." The people who like this can't even get past rule #1 so how am I supposed to get them to understand higher strategic thinking if they cannot even grasp the foundation?

That video is basically a 20 minute emotional appeal. There is no reason or strategy in it. "Come, do something."

Maybe he's wants to keep opsec but not sharing his strategy, and that's fine for what it's worth, but what has actually taken place is more of an #Occupy demonstration but with militias and guns.

Once the Hammonds rejected help, there is no more a security mission involving them. At that point you can ditch the tactical gear and the weapons, dress in bright colors carry signs and make a protest. Make the Hammonds the victims in the court of Public Opinion and move the masses to get pissed at the BLM.

What they are doing now, is just going to make the masses pissed at the militias, and turn the BLM into heroes.

Rule #1, don't make things worse.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Rule #1, don't make things worse.

That's where we disagree I guess.

Things are going to have to get much, much worse before they get better.

 

[Pericles]

Poking the beast in the eye.

I'm always in favor of things that do that.

It makes the beast act like what it is, gloves off.

And that would be fine. Thing is that two issues come along with this situation. One, a militia guy somewhere decides to write a check that he expects other militias to cash for him. The polite thing to do is to ask the other militias if they will cover the check before it is written. Second, Bundy Ranch was a militia win, and we can't afford a militia loss - it would be unfortunate to be placed in the position of deciding as to whether or not the deaths of some militia guys would need to be avenged.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Dannno nails it.

I don't have a strong opinion yet on whether this stand-off is a good idea, but I disagree with what Oath Keepers said up there to some extent.

As an analogy, if somebody was about to be burned at the stake for witchcraft, and you stood up to defend them and they said "no, it's ok, I don't want to be defended.." I still think you have the right to stand up and defend them. It isn't just them you are protecting, it is all the other alleged witches who might face similar persecution in the future.

Now, it's possible that the Hammond family is taking the stand that they are purely for liability reasons and in private they are cheering on their defenders, but I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other on that either.

 

[phill4paul]

As the liberty movement has no formal mechanisms for decision making, things happen on the basis of personal relationships. Aamon and Ryan Payne have a strong personal relationship, and in this regard, they do not compensate for each other's weaknesses and strengths, but amplify them due to similar personality types.

I agree with this assessment from what is known through the many thread posts here during the Bundy stand-off.

 

[Anti Federalist]

And that would be fine. Thing is that two issues come along with this situation. One, a militia guy somewhere decides to write a check that he expects other militias to cash for him. The polite thing to do is to ask the other militias if they will cover the check before it is written. Second, Bundy Ranch was a militia win, and we can't afford a militia loss - it would be unfortunate to be placed in the position of deciding as to whether or not the deaths of some militia guys would need to be avenged.

Can't argue with that I suppose.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I've been reading about this most of the day and until you started with the perspective I hadn't heard anybody else referring to what Bundy is doing as a battle/war or "op"...

Militia. Tactical gear. Equipment. Weapons. What else is it if not an operation?

From what I know what they've done has been purely reactionary after getting shut down by the Hammonds.....But I honestly don't know..

I do however assume after the last televised interaction with the BLM on their own property that Bundy is at least cognizant about setting up a defense or staging an offence.....

Knowing how to set up a perimeter is not relevant to the counterproductive nature of what they are doing. All this is going to do is undo the good will the militias earned at the Bundy Ranch.

Just because someone is doing something does not automatically mean that thing is helpful.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

What they are doing now, is just going to make the masses pissed at the militias, and turn the BLM into heroes.

Rule #1, don't make things worse.

Well, before, during, or after this event, fuck a BLM.

Bunch of counterproductive tapeworms who ought get real fucking jobs.

They were corrupt before they changed their name. And really, 'the masses' wouldn't know the history of the BLM if I threw a book at them, sooooooo I should care about their ignorant, propagandized opinions why, again?

Because they vote? Fuck their vote.

I suppose this would have been more in line with America if they established a first amendment zone and parked a battalion of pigs to maintain a perimeter.