Ranchers vs BLM Oregon this time

Schifference said:
That is a no brainer. Yes we all want safe passage for them to leave once they decide they are ready to go.
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We're talking specifically about the notice/letter that the Committee of Safety will be delivering to Bundy and his men. Or am I misunderstanding you?
 
I think they should take the safe passage offer and go home before they get swatted by the feds. I think the idea was ill conceived from the get go with no real goal was in sight. Despite that I will admit they have succeeded, they drew attention to and raised awareness of their cause. Now end it before somebody gets hurt.

I am not against armed militias or protests. What happened at the Bundy ranch was 100% ok with me. Even some of the stands that the general public considers "extremists" like Ruby Ridge are fine with me. Randy Weaver and the Bundys at their ranch did nothing wrong. Even the Branch Dividians, though I think they were odd, did nothing wrong. This protest to me was wrong, the aggrieved parties explicitly stated they did not want this.
 
69360 said:
I think they should take the safe passage offer and go home before they get swatted by the feds. I think the idea was ill conceived from the get go with no real goal was in sight. Despite that I will admit they have succeeded, they drew attention to and raised awareness of their cause. Now end it before somebody gets hurt.

I am not against armed militias or protests. What happened at the Bundy ranch was 100% ok with me. Even some of the stands that the general public considers "extremists" like Ruby Ridge are fine with me. Randy Weaver and the Bundys at their ranch did nothing wrong. Even the Branch Dividians, though I think they were odd, did nothing wrong. This protest to me was wrong, the aggrieved parties explicitly stated they did not want this.
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I think the Sheriff is a whore for the federal government. Safe passage to where?
 
kcchiefs6465 said:
I think the Sheriff is a whore for the federal government. Safe passage to where?
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure the sheriff doesn't have the authority to tell a Fed prosecutor to not to prosecute. He may not bring criminal charges locally but his authority ends there.
 
kcchiefs6465 said:
I think the Sheriff is a whore for the federal government. Safe passage to where?
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State line was what I read.

You have to figure at some point later they could be charged by the feds and arrested. They had to know that was a possibility going into this thing. It beats getting shot up, burned up or blown up by the feds like some of these other things have ended.
 
69360 said:
State line was what I read.

You have to figure at some point later they could be charged by the feds and arrested. They had to know that was a possibility going into this thing. It beats getting shot up, burned up or blown up by the feds like some of these other things have ended.
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Things are a bit different now compared to then. Technology is on their side and the fact that the entire militia community has come together and said "No Free Waco's" will give the Feds pause. Also, add the fact that other militia organizations have moved in to create a buffer. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that the orders have already been cut and a JSOC Delta element is somewhere close in ( at the very least have already set up a mock BLM HQ and are training). The FED never takes anything off the table, but, in my view they have failed to set the narrative and too many eyes are on the engagement.
 
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tod evans said:
I'd not trust sheriff boy as far as I could drop-kick an anvil.
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Absolutely not. He seems out of his element. I'm sure the FBI has already told him what they expect of him if push comes to shove. A shame really. A Constitutional sheriff could really make a difference in this situation. Wonder if Sheriff Mack would be up to going an talking with him?
 
69360 said:
State line was what I read.

You have to figure at some point later they could be charged by the feds and arrested. They had to know that was a possibility going into this thing. It beats getting shot up, burned up or blown up by the feds like some of these other things have ended.
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Might as well continue for the hunger strike, then.

Hopefully the PPN brought in pallets of food, I'd add.
 
Do these guys have reading materials to occupy down time? Or would I be harassed and charged for providing material support to so called and slandered terrorists?

I'll just put I'm proud to be an American on repeat and pray for them to accept the word of the lord. Might be soft tyranny versus a cage. There ought to be a vote.
 
phill4paul said:
Yup. After watching the video I have a much better belief that this thing is gonna work out for the good. The Oregon III%'ers and the whole PPN are a very positive factor on scene.
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I totally agree. It's good to see intelligent and cool heads entering the equation with the arrival of the PPN. May God grant them all safety and grace.
 
Oregon Standoff: Isolated Event or Sign of Things to Come? -- by Ron Paul

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archive...off-isolated-event-or-sign-of-things-to-come/

The nation's attention turned to Oregon this week when a group calling itself Citizens for Constitutional Freedom seized control of part of a federal wildlife refuge. The citizens were protesting the harsh sentences given to members of the Hammond ranching family. The Hammonds were accused of allowing fires set on their property to spread onto federal land.

The Hammonds were prosecuted under a federal terrorism statute. This may seem odd, but many prosecutors are stretching the definition of terrorism in order to, as was the case here, apply the mandatory minimum sentences or otherwise violate defendants’ constitutional rights. The first judge to hear the case refused to grant the government’s sentencing request, saying his conscience was shocked by the thought of applying the mandatory minimums to the Hammonds. Fortunately for the government, it was able to appeal the decision to judges whose consciences were not shocked by draconian sentences.

Sadly, but not surprisingly, some progressives who normally support civil liberties have called for the government to use deadly force to end the occupation at the refuge. These progressives are the mirror image of conservatives who (properly) attack gun control and the PATRIOT Act as tyrannical, yet support the use of police-state tactics against unpopular groups such as Muslims.

Even some libertarians have joined the attacks on the ranchers. These libertarians say ranchers like the Hammonds are “corporate welfare queens” because they graze their cattle on federal lands. However, since the federal government is the largest landholder in many western states, the ranchers may not have other viable alternatives. As the Oregon standoff shows, ranchers hardly have the same type of cozy relationship with the government that is enjoyed by true corporate welfare queens like military contractors and big banks. Many ranchers actually want control of federally-held land returned to the states or sold to private owners.

Situations like the one in Oregon could become commonplace as the continued failure of Keynesian economics and militaristic foreign policy is used to justify expanding government power. These new power grabs will increase the threats to our personal and economic security. The resulting chaos will cause many more Americans to resist government policies, with some even turning to violence, while the burden of government regulations and taxes will lead to a growing black market. The government will respond by becoming even more authoritarian, which will lead to further unrest.

Fortunately, we still have time to reverse course. The Internet makes it easier than ever to spark the ideas of liberty and grow the liberty movement. Spreading the truth and making sure we can care for ourselves and our families in the event of an economic collapse must be our priorities.

We must help more progressives understand that allowing the government to run the economy not only leads to authoritarianism, it impoverishes the lower classes and enriches the elites. We must also show conservatives that militarism abroad inevitably leads to tyranny at home. We also need to continue exposing how the Federal Reserve feeds the welfare-warfare state while increasing economic instability and income inequality. This week’s Senate vote on Audit the Fed is important to our efforts to help the American people learn the full truth about our monetary system.

One thing my years in Washington taught me is that most politicians are followers, not leaders. Therefore we should not waste time and resources trying to educate politicians. Politicians will not support individual liberty and limited government unless and until they are forced to do so by the people.
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phill4paul said:
Yup. After watching the video I have a much better belief that this thing is gonna work out for the good. The Oregon III%'ers and the whole PPN are a very positive factor on scene.

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Nobody wants anybody hurt.

Obama doesn't want any blood on his hands right after lecturing Americans that he's gonna take our guns.

So don't worry, in a few days this will all be over.

Of course, there's a slight chance a trouble maker infiltrator will try to stir shit up, hopefully not.
 
Oregon standoff: Roseburg state legislator ignores local warnings, visits protesters

BURNS — In the latest bizarre turn of events surrounding the ongoing armed occupation of a federal wildlife refuge, an Oregon state legislator from outside Harney County arrived here Saturday with out-of-state elected officials in tow and met with the protesters.

Oregon Rep. Cliff Bentz, a Republican from Ontario, and Harney County Judge Steven E. Grasty said that they tried to warn state Rep. Dallas Heard against traveling to Burns. But Heard, a Republican from Roseburg, arrived anyway, they said, and brought officials elected to state office in Washington, Idaho and Nevada with him.

"He had called me and indicated he was heading that direction, and I indicated that was inappropriate," said Bentz, whose district includes Harney County. "I think it's fair to say I was not enthusiastic about the idea."

Heard arrived with five other out-of-state elected officials and met with Grasty, Harney County District Attorney Tim Colahan, Marion County Sheriff Jason Myers and representatives from the Harney County Sheriff's Office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Grasty said. Grasty as a county judge has a role similar to a county commissioner.

There was also a Las Vegas-area elected official who joined the conversation by phone, Grasty said. The names of the other elected officials weren't immediately clear.

Northern Arizona rancher Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, one of the leaders of the militant group occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, said on Sunday morning that the officials met with the protesters Saturday evening.

Heard confirmed the meeting with the militants, including top leader Ammon Bundy, in a phone conversation. He described the trip as "a fact-finding mission." Heard said he was worried about violence and wanted to prevent another tragedy such as the shooting last year at Umpqua Community College, which is in his district.

"I was concerned that some of my constituents might have been mixed up in this," Heard said. "A good shepherd's job is to take care of all his flock."

The outside elected officials told the militants that Harney County and FBI officials had put "great pressure" on them not to visit the refuge, Finicum said. The protesters communicated their grievances – including their view that the federal government should hand over public land to Harney County loggers and ranchers – to the elected officials.

"Many of them said the same things back to us. ... These are honorable elected officials," Finicum said.

Grasty did not mince words when describing Heard's actions.

"I find it really interesting that not only did law enforcement advise him not to go out there, [but] it seems to me that we now have a state representative who will not listen to local input," Grasty said. "And isn't that the same thing that our armed visitors are saying about the federal government? It's the same thing."

Heard called himself an "elected representative of the people."

"We represent all of Oregon," he said.

Heard declined to reveal the names of the out-of-state elected officials who joined him.

Grasty said at least one of the elected officials from outside Oregon was "clearly a Bundy supporter." Bundy, an Arizona businessman, is the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy.

"I said, 'Please, guys, you are no different than any other outside group coming in and trying to fix it,'" Grasty said. "I don't see that group as any different than the Bundys. I think they placed themselves in danger. ... Just their visit would encourage [the Bundys]."

Heard and the other elected officials were concerned about an armed assault on the protesters by law enforcement, he said.

"They were clearly told...there will not be any armed assault from law enforcement on that compound," Grasty said.

Grasty emphasized that he understands the "angst" surrounding federal policy in Harney County. "I have it as much as anybody," he said. But he finds it "offensive" that many outsiders are attempting to speak for locals.

"I don't want them to be our voice. ... Why in the world would an out-of-area legislator think that he can come in here and fix it?" Grasty said. "He's probably the most inexperienced legislator in the state of Oregon. ... It just seems bizarre."

Heard was elected in 2014 to his seat in the state House of Representatives.

Ted Ferrioli, who represents Harney County in the state Senate, did not return a phone call.

Grasty and other county officials will hold a community meeting at 7 p.m. Monday at the Burns High School gymnasium. Bentz planned to attend.

Bundy and his brothers Ryan and Mel were not at the refuge Sunday morning, Finicum said, adding that he thinks they went to church.
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http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...sf/2016/01/oregon_standoff_roseburg_state.htm
 
Interview Yesterday w/ Ammon Bundy..
This is worth watching to get a grasp
on the larger issues, i.e. Economics/History of the purpose/fight/resistance.
Good stuff here.



I'm starting to change my mind on wanting a 'local' settlement.
Like saying the Boston Tea Party should be settled by the Boston city council or something.

This is certainly multi-state and growing to this decades old battle with the Article 1 Section 8 Federal overreach.
Robert "LaVoy" Finicum is an Arizona Rancher (& the guy quoted in your Oregonian article)



I'm of the opinion that the longer this plays out... the better. :)
This is going to be an epic thread and deserves updates.

In my next post
I'm going to get us connected (hopefully) to the encrypted Intel briefings
given by the III percenter/PPN group.
I've 'heard' there are now 2100 involved.
Like you said above...
'No more 'free Waco'... ain't gonna happen.

=================
btw...
A followup/interview with Brandon-III Percenter finished just moments ago...
again. Excellent stuff. :)

 
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