Raising the White Flag

[donnay]

I have a feeling that if there were a total societal breakdown, people would spend time focusing only on the health and welfare of themselves and their families. Their problems and concerns would be put in perspective, and they'd have absolutely no time to fret over trivialities. The need for this sort of medication would fall drastically, but the need for all other forms of medicine would skyrocket.

Going off of these psychotropic drugs, stopping abruptly or “cold turkey” will render them psychotic. I do not think they will be worrying about anything in that state.

 

[KingNothing]

Going off of these psychotropic drugs, stopping abruptly or “cold turkey” will render them psychotic. I do not think they will be worrying about anything in that state.

I don't know if you're right or wrong or what percentage of people this would apply to, but I'm positive that the best way to deal with it is to treat everyone with kindness and to have as much fun as possible with everyone you know, without prejudice or judgement, in the hopes that they might no longer feel that they need the drugs.

 

[KingNothing]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/16/women-and-prescription-drug-use_n_1098023.html


Interesting article. From an anecdotal perspective, I don't know any men who are being treated with medication.

 

[donnay]

I don't know if you're right or wrong or what percentage of people this would apply to, but I'm positive that the best way to deal with it is to treat everyone with kindness and to have as much fun as possible with everyone you know, without prejudice or judgement, in the hopes that they might no longer feel that they need the drugs.

While in a perfect world I would share your sentiments, however, we are not in a perfect world and mental illness is climbing. These type drugs are taken like candy, and make many people, who take them, have a feeling euphoria. Take that magic away and "Houston we have a problem."

 

[KingNothing]

While in a perfect world I would share your sentiments, however, we are not in a perfect world and mental illness is climbing. These type drugs are taken like candy, and make many people, who take them, have a feeling euphoria. Take that magic away and "Houston we have a problem."

The alternative to the sentiment I expressed is to blast people with unwanted advice. As Ron Paul says, that accomplishes nothing.

 

[coastie]

I don't know if you're right or wrong or what percentage of people this would apply to, but I'm positive that the best way to deal with it is to treat everyone with kindness and to have as much fun as possible with everyone you know, without prejudice or judgement, in the hopes that they might no longer feel that they need the drugs.

What you're not getting is that there is no reasoning with people in these states of psychosis. NONE. Been there, done that. These pills do absolutely nothing but hurt those they are supposedly helping. The side effects of all of these pills MIRROR the symptoms they supposedly treat. Sure, maybe you see "nothing wrong" with them, but there most certainly is. I bore the brunt of my wife's issues with these pills, while everyone else thought she was just fine. Everyone else wasn't with her everyday, however, and she wasn't just fine. She almost lost her life on threee different occasions directly related to those meds. Taken as prescribed. These meds all work on the frontal lobe-the part that makes you, well...you.

Treating them with kindness and hoping for the best will do nothing when it comes to dealing with people abruptly stopping and withdrawing off these meds.

 

[KingNothing]

What you're not getting is that there is no reasoning with people in these states of psychosis. NONE. Been there, done that.

Are you sure that I'm the one "not getting" this? Go back and read what I said. All I'm suggesting is that you do your best to have fun with people to increase the moments of pleasure in their lives and yours.

These pills do absolutely nothing but hurt those they are supposedly helping. The side effects of all of these pills MIRROR the symptoms they supposedly treat. Sure, maybe you see "nothing wrong" with them, but there most certainly is. I bore the brunt of my wife's issues with these pills, while everyone else thought she was just fine. Everyone else wasn't with her everyday, however, and she wasn't just fine. She almost lost her life on threee different occasions directly related to those meds. Taken as prescribed. These meds all work on the frontal lobe-the part that makes you, well...you.

I know of what you speak, and I see no way of alleviating the situation through means other than kindness. In fact, the only temporary relief I've seen in this regard, the only time I've seen someone willingly stop using the drugs, is when those of us closest to the person were all enjoying ourselves and communicating often.

Treating them with kindness and hoping for the best will do nothing when it comes to dealing with people abruptly stopping and withdrawing off these meds.

Far better to berate these people who are in distress, rather than to strive to be as kind as possible, always. Right?

C'mon guys. We're talking about human beings. I know you'll claim that they aren't actually human while under the influence, but they are. In fact, they're strikingly similar to you and I, and had our lives taken a different turn at some point, we might be on the same medication.

 

[amy31416]

Coastie's right--I don't know about the psychosis part, but my mother was prescribed Paxil to alleviate her anxiety after my father died--it changed her personality in really goofy little ways (laughing inappropriately when I burnt myself once, stuff like that.) So she decided to stop taking it, cold turkey, and I got a call in the middle of the night from her about "electrical" shooting pains going from her spine to her brain--told her to call an ambulance, get to the hospital...and after driving 6 hours to get home, it was, of course, withdrawal from the Paxil.

She had to go on a very slow reduction course in order to get off the stuff without losing it or experiencing massive pain. It would not be pretty for these sorts of drugs to suddenly not be available.

 

[AGRP]

This is a probably a problem that has been going on since the beginning of time. The medical community is the medical community. Its not surprising people will abuse things.

 

[libertygrl]

I don't know if you're right or wrong or what percentage of people this would apply to, but I'm positive that the best way to deal with it is to treat everyone with kindness and to have as much fun as possible with everyone you know, without prejudice or judgement, in the hopes that they might no longer feel that they need the drugs.

I wish it were that easy. But from what I've heard and read, they tell people who take these drugs NEVER to suddenly stop taking them because they are going to experiencece SEVERE mental/ physical reactions. So this is something beyond their control. You have to be weened off this stuff.

 

[coastie]

Are you sure that I'm the one "not getting" this? Go back and read what I said. All I'm suggesting is that you do your best to have fun with people to increase the moments of pleasure in their lives and yours.



I know of what you speak, and I see no way of alleviating the situation through means other than kindness. In fact, the only temporary relief I've seen in this regard, the only time I've seen someone willingly stop using the drugs, is when those of us closest to the person were all enjoying ourselves and communicating often.



Far better to berate these people who are in distress, rather than to strive to be as kind as possible, always. Right?

C'mon guys. We're talking about human beings. I know you'll claim that they aren't actually human while under the influence, but they are. In fact, they're strikingly similar to you and I, and had our lives taken a different turn at some point, we might be on the same medication.

I got put on some of this same medication while in the military(Lexapro). I stopped taking it after 2 weeks. Dreams and nightmares should rarely be as vivid as they were in the short period I took them, and friends/co-workers noticed an abrupt change in my demeanor, as I could become explosively violent over the dumbest stuff, became paranoid accusing people of doing things they weren't-the list goes on. I weened myself off of them, the Dr.'s refused to help me. Same thing with my wife years later. Once we figured out what was the root cause of her problems and asked for advice on how to stop taking them-they "fired" us.

I agree, they are humans. But these drugs make it impossible to enjoy your time with them. Those 4 years were hands down the worst years of both our(and our children's) lives.

The problem is also that the Dr.'s really don't give a shit about their patients, they are more concerned with lining their wallets. thye all get a cut from prescribing these pills-legalized drug dealers, they are. They were dismissive and downright ugly with us EVERYtime we reported side effects to them(Think of the commercials for these pills you see 20x a day for these about "report to your Dr. right away if....."). Please. We did exactly that, with 8 different Dr's over a 4 year period, and were always told :

"well, we can ADD this drug"

"Well, we can increase that drug"

"well, that only happens in x amount of people (therefore, it's not happening to you)"

There a thousands of "conditions" you can be "diagnosed" with today, most of them are just descriptions of normal human behavior. These meds cause more trouble than they are worth. Just about every single mass shooter: On these pills. Mothers that do horrific shit to there kids: On these pills.

 

[osan]

I have a feeling that if there were a total societal breakdown, people would spend time focusing only on the health and welfare of themselves and their families. Their problems and concerns would be put in perspective, and they'd have absolutely no time to fret over trivialities. The need for this sort of medication would fall drastically, but the need for all other forms of medicine would skyrocket.

I don't think that you are properly accounting for the effects of cold turkey from these psychotropic drugs. They seriously mess with your brain chemistry and in most cases alter it permanently. The effects vary between individuals, but the average case of cold turkey precipitates ugly results at best and those are often dangerous.

Such people often cause quite a stir - that may not be so big a deal in an environment where a visit to the funny farm where plenty more drugs are available to pacify the savage beast. But in an environment of general want, fueled by fear and the anger to which it gives root, I see the potential for very bad situations such that people like this will simply have to be put down as matters of survival for those around them.

 

[osan]

What you're not getting is that there is no reasoning with people in these states of psychosis. NONE. Been there, done that. These pills do absolutely nothing but hurt those they are supposedly helping. The side effects of all of these pills MIRROR the symptoms they supposedly treat. Sure, maybe you see "nothing wrong" with them, but there most certainly is. I bore the brunt of my wife's issues with these pills, while everyone else thought she was just fine. Everyone else wasn't with her everyday, however, and she wasn't just fine. She almost lost her life on threee different occasions directly related to those meds. Taken as prescribed. These meds all work on the frontal lobe-the part that makes you, well...you.

Treating them with kindness and hoping for the best will do nothing when it comes to dealing with people abruptly stopping and withdrawing off these meds.

On the money. Just look at the way people behave who have been on steroids or meth-amphetamine for long periods. They become raving, paranoid, and often violent lunatics. Those drugs are almost tame when compared with these serotonin antagonists and the like. Such chemicals change who you ARE. That is nothing to take lightly. People who have had their brains permanently altered in these fashions should have the rest of us on our guards because you never know who is going to twig.

Remember that when one is good and crazy reason no longer holds and meaning. Consider the all too common problem with non-hospitalized schizophrenics who decide one day that they are fine and no longer need their meds. They tend to go wonky in short order and many are dangerous. A friend of mine in Charleston had one in his shop like that. He felt badly for the guy, put him to work and let him bunk in the warehouse where another friend kept his 1/4 million $ mobile home. One day my friend comes in and Mr. Kookoo had painted the warehouse in ways nobody but he would find pleasing. He destroyed equipment and peeled the skin off one side of the motor home! We could not even figure out how in hell he managed it. That was two summers ago. The guy became very agitated and we had the cops take him away to the loonie-bin. Cold comfort to the owner of the mobile home. This guy was so unstable I was thanking my stars I had my pistol on my belt because I would not have wanted to have had to face him hand-to-hand. Fortunately it all resolved itself with no further trouble, but what if he'd gone apey?

The same sorts of things happen with "normal" people who decide to quit using their depression and anxiety medications. Scary shit for a scary world.

 

[donnay]

This site bears repeating: http://ssristories.com/

 

[donnay]

Antidepressant Paxil linked to man's suicide, jury awards $1.5 million in malpractice case

Tuesday, December 11, 2012 by: Jonathan Benson, staff writer

The family of a 51-year-old father, teacher, and basketball coach who committed suicide back in 2009 has been awarded $1.5 million in a landmark malpractice case that highlights the incredible dangers associated with antidepressant drugs. As reported by The Post Standard, a Supreme Court jury in New York recently found that Joseph Mazella had been improperly and negligently prescribed a deadly combination of the antidepressant drug Paxil (paroxetine) and the antipsychotic drug Zyprexa (olanzapine) by his physician, Dr. William Beals, which triggered a rapid mental downfall that led to Joseph eventually taking his own life.

Joseph had reportedly already been taking 20-milligram doses of Paxil for over 10 years at the order of Dr. Beals prior to his suicide, who apparently never once met in person with Joseph during that time to assess him and see how the drug was affecting his mental health. According to Joseph's wife Janice, Dr. Beals essentially just filled Joseph's prescriptions from time to time over the phone upon request -- as Joseph would run out of pills, in other words, he would simply call Dr. Beals, who would then fill them from afar without any sort of evaluation or patient visit, which is completely unethical.

Things took a serious turn for the worse; however, when Joseph phoned Dr. Beals on August 9, 2009, to inform him that he was beginning to feel anxious and depressed again, despite his regular regimen with Paxil. Rather than bring Joseph in for an evaluation to properly assess him and make a decision about how to proceed, Dr. Beals, who was reportedly vacationing in Cape Cod at the time, simply doubled Joseph's Paxil dosage to 40 milligrams, and also tacked on the deadly antipsychotic drug Zyprexa, all over the phone. And in less than one month, Joseph, an otherwise cheery, warm, and well-loved man by many, was found dead in his garage by his wife.

"After reviewing extensive records and interviewing Mr. Mazella's wife Janice, I concluded that Dr. Beals was negligent in reportedly prescribing Paxil for 10 years without seeing the patient, in failing to warn the patient and his wife about the serious risks associated with Paxil, in his doubling the Paxil dose and adding Zyprexa by telephone, and then in abandoning the patient during his decline," wrote Dr. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist and the medical expert for Joseph's family during the trial, in a recent piece for the Huffington Post.

Jury finds negligent doctor, antidepressant drugs directly responsible for triggering Joseph's suicide

And the jury agreed, assigning full blame for Joseph's death to Dr. Beals, who earlier this year was also charged by the New York state health department for negligently prescribing dangerous psychiatric drugs to many of his other patients as well. Between this and Dr. Beals also being disciplined by the state for personally abusing drugs an alcohol, this corrupt doctor who now has a nationwide reputation for gross negligence earned himself five years of probation from his practice.

"Many years ago, I used to believe that people must be held responsible for their own behavior under all conditions, but my philosophical beliefs were eventually eroded by the mountain of scientific evidence that I developed through my research and clinical experience indicating that psychiatric drugs can indeed drive people to suicide," added Dr. Breggin about this situation.

Sources for this article include:

http://www.syracuse.com

http://www.huffingtonpost.com

http://www.syracuse.com

 

[amy31416]

No pharmacist either? Pharmacists are allegedly trained to catch obvious mistakes like that.

 

[donnay]

No pharmacist either? Pharmacists are allegedly trained to catch obvious mistakes like that.

Maybe these drugs are prescribed and supposed to monitored by physician? So a pharmacist didn't think nothing of it and filled the prescription?

 

[amy31416]

Maybe these drugs are prescribed and supposed to monitored by physician? So a pharmacist didn't think nothing of it and filled the prescription?

Naw. Pharmacists are definitely supposed to be aware of interactions--I used to pick up all my mother's meds and they'd give warnings on various things and call the doctors in certain "iffy" cases. I looked into going to pharmacy school at one point, and it's a big part of the curriculum.

I'm thinking that the scrips were either filled at different locations, or perhaps they were just ordered online--if not, the family has good cause to sue the pharmacist as well.

 

[coastie]

Naw. Pharmacists are definitely supposed to be aware of interactions--I used to pick up all my mother's meds and they'd give warnings on various things and call the doctors in certain "iffy" cases. I looked into going to pharmacy school at one point, and it's a big part of the curriculum.

I'm thinking that the scrips were either filled at different locations, or perhaps they were just ordered online--if not, the family has good cause to sue the pharmacist as well.

Or-the pharmacist cares as much as the physician does. That was our experience with them.

My wife was scheduled to see her Dr's every THREE TO SIX MONTHS-those visits rarely exceeded 5 minutes, and usually after waiting a bare minimum of 2 hours to even get to that 5 minute meeting, in a waiting room FULL of ZOMBIES. That time period is unacceptable when someone is on those medications, something we found out the hard way. It was the same thing, changes were made over the phone, no face to face, blowing me off when reporting adverse reactions, etc. Once, she was given a generic of Keppra, when she was supposed to be taking the real deal only. Turns out, the generic looked nothing like the real deal, and since she still had some of the real Keppra left, she ended up 2.5 times her dose of it one day because the generic looked so much like the other meds she was taking.

Needless to say, bad things happened. I flew into a rage and drove to and was nearly arrested at her doctors office, after I got blown off on the phone for the last fucking time, simply calling (AGAIN) to let them no something seriously was wrong with her...The pharmacy bitch was extremely condecending towards me BEFORE this all happened that day, I went to pick up her meds and noticed immediately they were the generics, to which she assured me it was all the same(not true). Fuck this industry, for real. Sorry, I get all spun up over this shit.

 

[amy31416]

Or-the pharmacist cares as much as the physician does. That was our experience with them.

My wife was scheduled to see her Dr's every THREE TO SIX MONTHS-those visits rarely exceeded 5 minutes, and usually after waiting a bare minimum of 2 hours to even get to that 5 minute meeting, in a waiting room FULL of ZOMBIES. That time period is unacceptable when someone is on those medications, something we found out the hard way. It was the same thing, changes were made over the phone, no face to face, blowing me off when reporting adverse reactions, etc. Once, she was given a generic of Keppra, when she was supposed to be taking the real deal only. Turns out, the generic looked nothing like the real deal, and since she still had some of the real Keppra left, she ended up 2.5 times her dose of it one day because the generic looked so much like the other meds she was taking.

Needless to say, bad things happened. I flew into a rage and drove to and was nearly arrested at her doctors office, after I got blown off on the phone for the last fucking time, simply calling (AGAIN) to let them no something seriously was wrong with her...The pharmacy bitch was extremely condecending towards me BEFORE this all happened that day, I went to pick up her meds and noticed immediately they were the generics, to which she assured me it was all the same(not true). Fuck this industry, for real. Sorry, I get all spun up over this shit.

Perfectly understandable. In that particular case that Donnay posted, I'm just thinking that if it were one pharmacist who doled those out, that he she be sued right alongside the doctor, and they should both lose their licenses and do time. Hell, if you were rich and powerful, you should pursue your case as well.

In a side note, I think that more of us types should go into these professions where we can protect patients and be sure their rights are well-known.