Rachael Maddow Book - Drift - IT'S WORKING GUYS!! THEY ARE SLOWLY GETTING IT!

[cheapseats]

EXACTLY!! I would also add that HARD-LEFT thing is the problem too. HARD LEFT or HARD RIGHT, it's always a HARD ON for any solutions that involve an increase in Federal and Police powers.

Yep.

Liberal/Conservative is a False (But Lucrative) Dichotomy. Liberal and Conservative are BALANCING influences, even WITHIN a person.

HARD this, FAR that speaks to IMBALANCE a.k.a. DIS-EASE . . . also to OPPORTUNISM + EXPLOITATION.

The only way to solve this problem is not dismissing new people on either side and marginalizing them in our group whenever they show that they don't "get it" yet. We end up marginalizing ourselves if we do. We win by uniting with people only on the issues where they have it right.

True.

But that does not translate to:

So when Rachel Maddow writes a book about how bad the wars are, we get behind it 100%.

AT. ALL.

And when someone on the Hard Left starts pushing something related to fiscal conservatism and criticism of the FED, we give them an EPIC head nod supporting them.

Depends whether they are JOINING you . . . or BEATING YOU AT YOUR OWN GAME.

Libertarians are never going to agree on a lot of things with Liberals, but Liberals and Conservatives can unite with Libertarians when it comes to the war issue.

All who are not "naturally" hateful and fearful, and all who are not UNNATURALLY ambitious and controlling, AND ALL WHO ARE NOT INVESTED IN THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, can unite with Anti War.

And we all know the national security state is majorly messed up, but it takes a major public uprising for them to give back the power Congress has wrongly taken for itself in the name of security.

You'd be surprised how many people still mutter something about WORTH IT, while being treated like LOW LIFE BENT ON HARMING THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

What must be driven home is that it is NOT worth it. That EIGHTY BILLION on "Intelligence" in ONE YEAR meant diddly-squat in Tucson. That NO AMOUNT OF MONEY OR HIGH-TECH AGGRAVATION can protect against Lone Wolves. That Taxpayers can't AFFORD this much Security, which doesn't accrue to THEM anyway. How can it be so dangerous for THEM to fly, and so obviously NOT dangerous for Jet Setters & Deciders?

#RachelMaddow (and #RandPaul, for that matter) can afford to pay $100 PER LEG OF EACH TRIP, to skirt the degradation of #TSA. WHAT, #Terrorists don't know that American Officialdom treats "First Class" differentially AND deferentially? WHAT, ooga-booga "Terrorist Organizations" will spring for bombs and delivery network, but not first-class tickets?

It's called BUILDING A COALITION PEOPLE.

Rachel Maddow is working on OBAMA'S coalition, period.

And unlike the occupy movement, or the tea party movement, we have someone to Unite Around. Someone special, someone to emulate. That person is Ron Paul.

Rachel Maddow's audience coalesce around Ron Paul? I think not.

And he may not win an election this year, but 4 years, 8 years, our movement will outshine the Tea Parties and Occupy Movements of this world.

No guarantees.

It will surely NOT outshine Others if Others continually cherry-pick and successfully pimp digestible parts of the Liberty Concept, leaving hapless Libertarians always with the ICKY/HARD parts. There ARE icky/hard parts to Liberty. The OTHER guy's freedom, for starters.

I don't know that the post itself was recent, but I recently read a post on this "libertarian leaning" board wherein a Ron Paul Supporter proposed that people who cuss should be BANNED. I mean, for fuck's sake.

And if things fall apart in the US, then it isn't a time to run but our moment of Truth to win yet more elections.

Agreed.

And if they suspend elections, then, well, we scream and protest and join with our countrymen to get our elections back.

HUH?

Joining with our Countrymen to do more than "scream and protest", I should hope.

And when we get the elections back, THAT is when we will win by a landslide and disarm the federal government that took away the elections. And we'll get rid of a hell of a lot of other bad legislation and bad CASE LAW along with it.

From whence comes talk of SUSPENDED ELECTIONS?

Just keep fighting and talking and uniting with people when you find something you can agree on.

FIGHT TO UNITE? You DO see the problem...

WAR 4 PEACE.

 

[angelatc]

Lots of accusations being flung around like monkey poo in here, I watch maddow whenever I can, she's the only one I like.

That doesn't bode well for the future of the movement.

 

[jmdrake]

I'm not sure why this is a surprise. The left sounds like Ron Paul on foreign policy, but they never quite deliver. Rachael Madcow defended Barack Obama getting the nobel peace prize even though he had already announced the Afghanistan "surge". The right sounds like Ron Paul on domestic spending but they never quite deliver. Rick Santorum voted for more money for planned parenthood. The only difference between the Rachael Maddows and Rick Santorums of the world is where they try to sound like Ron Paul.

 

[jmdrake]

That doesn't bode well for the future of the movement.

The future of the movement includes winning over people who like Beck as well as winning over people who like Maddow. There just aren't enough Andrew Napolitano fans out there to win a presidential election, especially now that Fox fired him for telling the truth.

 

[JasonM]

The future of the movement includes winning over people who like Beck as well as winning over people who like Maddow. There just aren't enough Andrew Napolitano fans out there to win a presidential election, especially now that Fox fired him for telling the truth.

Amen to that =/

 

[jolynna]

Those that hate Obama should be VERY glad for Glenn Greenwald. He is the ONLY one calling OUT Obama for NOT repealing the Patriot Act, NDAA, putting the nation under Martial law and the spying of HMS on American citizens. As well as the torture, covert wars, NOT covert but unconstitutional wars and the secret prisons. As well as the unjust tortures and infinite detentions of whistle-blowers.

The left that WAS foaming at the mouth over those assaults from Bush is NOW full of justification when "their guy" is doing it.

The GOP can't and ISN'T calling Obama out for THOSE things either because THEY SUPPORT all of the above. Romney started the first and greatest-of-its-time spycenter (with the help of TOP donor Raytheon lobbyist, Ed Rogers) when he was governor and appointed by Bush to Co-head the Governor's Homeland Security Council.

NDAA was overwhelming APPROVED by Republicans...who are ONLY backing up on it now because their constituents found out what NDAA is (sure didn't hear about what it IS from the mainstream media either--not from the left OR the right media).

It isn't true that Libertarians and anti-war progressives can't get together. ALL who are PASSIONATE about NO UNJUST WAR and HUMAN and CIVIL rights (our constitution), right OR left hate how Obama baited (saying he'd repeal the Patriot act and bring the troops home) and then switched and became WORSE than Bush on both liberty and war. Here is an example of the right AND left uniting over freedom and NOT running around murdering people to "prevent war" (http://original.antiwar.com/henderson/2010/03/04/the-left-right-conference-on-war/).

Until we downsize the war machine, (instead of spending an ADDITIONAL trillion dollars a year on the Pentagon on top of the $900 + billion dollars annually we have spent under Obama) we can't "fix the economy".

I will give kudos to ANYONE who speaks out against unprovoked and unjust war and the greed and corruption behind it. Including Rachael Maddow.

We don't HAVE to win over Rachel Maddow. If somebody that listens to her show researches WAR, they are going to run across a LOT, much of it written by progressives, that paints Obama as pretty much of a monster because of his assaults on liberty and participation in the wars.

In my opinion.

 

[JasonM]

HUH?

Joining with our Countrymen to do more than "scream and protest", I should hope.

Yes, absolutely. Fighting to get those elections back. And not just the arm-chair kind of fighting either.

From whence comes talk of SUSPENDED ELECTIONS?

WAR 4 PEACE.

The talk of suspended election is speaking to those people who are paranoid that we won't have a country if we have 4 more years of anyone but Ron Paul. And you know who those people are. Hardly think it will come to that, Liberty has seen rougher waters than this, but you never know what will happen.

 

[floridasun1983]

I guess next we'll introduce Karl Marx as a champion of liberty because he once read Thomas Jefferson.

 

[FrankRep]

I guess next we'll introduce Karl Marx as a champion of liberty because he once read Thomas Jefferson.

I hear that Karl Marx was a big supporter of fairness and equality.

 

[JK/SEA]

Maddow=Glenn Beck....only............different.

 

[cheapseats]

I'm not sure why this is a surprise. The left sounds like Ron Paul on foreign policy, but they never quite deliver. Rachael Madcow defended Barack Obama getting the nobel peace prize even though he had already announced the Afghanistan "surge".

He didn't "just" collect the #NobelPeacePrize concurrent with ordering the #AfghanSurge, the Afghan Surge was concurrent with #OlympicOpeningCeremonies. All KINDSA twisted.

Does #RachelMaddow champion decriminalization of #marijuana with the same FERVOR with which she champions All Things Gay? NO, she does not.

Embrace Anti War, like a long-lost lover.

ATTACK RACHEL MADDOW (in the spirit of targeting Voters in #BattlegroundStates).

Play hardball, or don't.

The right sounds like Ron Paul on domestic spending but they never quite deliver. Rick Santorum voted for more money for planned parenthood. The only difference between the Rachael Maddows and Rick Santorums of the world is where they try to sound like Ron Paul.

Like I said, theoretically, it should be comparatively easy for Ron Paul and knowledgeable, articulate Supporters to persuade Anti War Centrists With Ethics of the righteousness of FISCAL PRUDENCE STEEPED IN LIBERTY.

 

[JasonM]

I guess next we'll introduce Karl Marx as a champion of liberty because he once read Thomas Jefferson.

If you're trying to convert a bunch of Marxists to the cause of liberty, how better than to quote their own hero if he says something that validates Ron Paul?

I'm trolling of course.

 

[JasonM]

I hear that Karl Marx was a big supporter of fairness and equality.

Too bad he didn't get the memo that some people are "more equal" than others, and some people have a right to be treated "more fairly" than others.

 

[FrankRep]

If you're trying to convert a bunch of Marxists to the cause of liberty, how better than to quote their own hero if he says something that validates Ron Paul?

I'm trolling of course.

You forget that Marxists exploit any issue they can to get more power. Don't get fooled.

 

[cheapseats]

I read Bill O'Reilly's "Killing Lincoln" too and since becoming anti-unprovoked war and anti-preventative war (as was Dwight Eisenhauer), I can't stand Bill O'Reilly. Doesn't mean I couldn't gain something from reading what he had to say.

Good heavens, if I'd have limited myself to ONLY reading books by people who are politically the same as ME, I'd NEVER have read End The Fed and would still be of the mindset I was when I was out campaigning for McCain.

The reason many people are NOT getting MORE excited about Ron Paul is because they are still stuck in the old left wing versus right wing ruts.


In my opinion.

Big BIG difference between READING and BOOK SALES.

Big BIG difference between EMBRACING CONCEPTS and CELEBRATING PEOPLE.

#RachelMaddow is a friend of Liberty ONLY insofar as it pertains to Gays and the "traditional" Disadvantage/Have Not's. That is MY takeaway from the television broadcasts that I have seen.

Rand, Racism, Rights & Right, 5/24/10: http://singlenessofpurpose.com/mcpolitics/rand-racism-rights-right/

 

[angelatc]

You forget that Marxists exploit any issue they can to get more power. Don't get fooled.

Exactly.

 

[jolynna]

I guess next we'll introduce Karl Marx as a champion of liberty because he once read Thomas Jefferson.

I didn't say she was a champion of liberty, I said IF she wrote against war and the war machine, good.

I've never read her book. But, I'm not going to not read it and close my mind to every idea in it because I disagree with her politics. I read Mein Kampt and managed NOT to turn into a Nazi. Should I decide to read Maddow's book I probably won't become an Obama lover. Anymore than reading Condaleeza Rice's books made me love Bush or what his administration did.

Jodi Kantor's book, The Obamas is on my kindle. I haven't read it yet. Same with Dick Cheney's, In My Time.

I think gathering information from SEVERAL points of view and always being open to RETHINK anything is a good thing.One of my regrets is that I can't live long enough to read ALL THE BOOKS I want to read.

In my opinion.

 

[cheapseats]

You forget that Marxists exploit any issue they can to get more power. Don't get fooled.

Exactly.

Embrace Anti War, like a long-lost lover.

ATTACK RACHEL MADDOW.

Play hardball, or don't.

Was #RachelMaddow BOOK-DEAL Anti War when #Obama ordered a surge in the YEARS-OLD war in #Afghanistan? No.

Has she loudly and consistently praised Ron Paul's foreign policy? No.

Does she impugn Republicans who are hawking their books? Yes.

got FLIP FLOPPING?

#NikitaKrushchev: The press is our chief ideological weapon.

#AllenGinsberg: Whoever controls the media, the images, controls the culture.

#JimMorrison: Whoever controls the media, controls the mind.

#JosephGoebbels: Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.

 

[cheapseats]

...But, I'm not going to not read it and close my mind to every idea in it because I disagree with her politics. I read Mein Kampt and managed NOT to turn into a Nazi.

...I think gathering information from SEVERAL points of view and always being open to RETHINK anything is a good thing.

Absolutely, absolutely. Everything you can get your hands on, whenever you can.

But don't BUY books of Adversaries and Enemies. HOW YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY is the thing they care about most. Evidence abounds that MONEY TRUMPS EVERYTHING in America.

Politicians and Talking Heads (= effectively Lobbyists) should not be pimping their own books WHILE IN OFFICE/PULPIT. got bias? got spin? got unfair advantage?

One of my regrets is that I can't live long enough to read ALL THE BOOKS I want to read.

One day, this sad reality really REGISTERED: If I spent every waking moment of the balance of my life READING, there is still not enough time to read everything that I would LIKE to read and that would be GOOD FOR ME to absorb.

 

[angelatc]

Was #RachelMaddow BOOK-DEAL Anti War when #Obama ordered a surge in the YEARS-OLD war in #Afghanistan? No.

Has she loudly and consistently praised Ron Paul's foreign policy? No.

Does she impugn Republicans who are hawking their books? Yes.

got FLIP FLOPPING?

#NikitaKrushchev: The press is our chief ideological weapon.

#AllenGinsberg: Whoever controls the media, the images, controls the culture.

#JimMorrison: Whoever controls thoe media, controls the mind.

#JosephGoebbels: Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.

Exactly. She writes a book about the evils of war, the extravagance and boondoggles of war-related spending, and perhaps she's right about that. But what she will never, ever acknowledge is that the same government doing these wasteful things is also incapable of running welfare programs. She's undoubtedly talking about the wasted spending overseas and the ridiculous Homeland Security budget, but try to point out the same waste and fraud when it emerges in her beloved Homeland Social Security, and the argument quickly becomes "We don't need a smaller government. Just a better one!"

She would rather have a prowar progressive in office than an anti-war conservative. I already know she's not capable of intellectual honesty, and while it's true there are more books than time, there's no valid excuse to push aside endless better reads in favor of her tripe.

This isn't her "getting it." This is an anti-capitalist making a capitalistic buck at the expense of the true anti-war believers.