Property - the immediate Gift of God

[Truth Warrior]

Two of the founders. They aren't out of context, this is what the founders believed, and many more examples are in the off-topics section of the forum. The divine inspiration of scriptures. You couldn't even hold office in many of the states of the Revolution unless you believed in the bible.

It was a rational objective shared moral system.

Although I'm sure I could do better explaining it, most of you are yelling various insults; foolish, barbaric, lucifien, socialists.

BUT THESE WERE OUR FOUNDERS.

I am not idolizing them. But I am spurning you all. They're system worked. You don't have a replacement

Cover your ears, the RPF is very noisy today.

Isn't bearing false witness a sin?

 

[BeFranklin]

Cover your ears, the RPF is very noisy today.

Isn't bearing false witness a sin?

How could you say? We don't share the same objective shared written moral system.

That is the point. In a transacation where the underlining assumption is honesty, and we don't have a common system, but everyone decides subjectively what is right and wrong, there will be hurt.

The entire society must disintergrate without that underlining basis.

 

[Truth Warrior]

How could you say? We don't share the same objective shared written moral system.

CORRECT! Mine is better and MUCH less barbaric than your's.

That is the point. In a transacation where the underlining assumption is honesty, and we don't have a common system, but everyone decides subjectively what is right and wrong, there will be hurt.

Like selectively parsing and choosing subjectively from the HOLY WORD OF GOD?

The entire society must disintergrate without that underlining basis.

Poor old Neanderthals, didn't even stand a chance.

"Society are people." -- Frank Chodorov

"Many people never grow up. They stay all their lives with a passionate need for external authority and guidance, pretending not to trust their own judgment." -- Alan Watts

 

[BeFranklin]

"Many people never grow up. They stay all their lives with a passionate need for external authority and guidance, pretending not to trust their own judgment." -- Alan Watts

Most people are vain and full of themselves. Me, I don't consider the founders as a bunch of kids believing fairytales. Rather, I consider many people are bigots who aren't that bright

That is what is wrong with our society. Government is the symptom, not the cause.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Most people are vain and full of themselves. Me, I don't consider the founders as a bunch of kids believing fairytales. Rather, I consider many people are bigots who aren't that bright

Yep, and most of those types I know, are "Christians" ( so called ).

BTW, I'm certified very bright.

That is what is wrong with our society. Government is the symptom, not the cause.

Lose the bogus "society" ABSTRACTION. It merely weakens your argument.<IMHO>

"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure." - Robert LeFevre

"We shall get nowhere until we start by recognizing that political behavior is largely non-rational, that the world is suffering from some kind of mental disease which must be diagnosed before it can be cured. " -- George Orwell

 

[Andrew-Austin]

As a question for discussion - if property is an immediate gift from God, what do we owe our creator?

Hmmm... Usually when I receive a gift I say thank you, and might try and express my gratitude by returning the favor.

Using the term gift however, implies there is a conscious gift giver. In which case we could use one of our sense perceptions to actually detect/discover the giver.

When I venture across an unexplored country and settle unowned land. I am not receiving a gift from somebody, I'm just taking the property.

How does this affect a view of property if believed? How does it affect sense of duty? Is a non-Christian view of propety still compatible with the sense of unalienable rights since they are derived from a Creator? Is the modern sense at all compatible with the framework our founders used?

The modern sense being, all property rights stemming from the fundamental fact of self-ownership?

From what I have been reading, I don't think the philosophy of freedom and its framework that the founders believed in is at all compatiable with what is being espoused today. If the freedom movement is dying, perhaps it is because it doesn't have a consistent framework. I'll leave it at that for an open discussion.

This 'freedom movement', comprised of Ron Paul conservatives and libertarians, at the very least has a much more consistent and logical framework than all other ideological camps. This movement, and Ron Paul's message, has already displayed the ability to reach out to people of all different backgrounds/walks of life. I'm sure you agree with this, and what you are really trying to say is that some people in this movement (atheists, anarchists, secular minarchists perhaps?) are not as consistent as you in that they don't root their philosophical basis of freedom on Christian dogma.

To me it seems the actual agenda of this thread is not seeking consistency for the sake of growing the movement, but just converting people who already support freedom and property rights to your Christian beliefs. This makes sense considering your record of character here, you always put God and religion first before everything.

This explanation is probably why no one but Truth Warrior has posted here so far.

 

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Did the Neanderthals have property?

Puhleese, learn a thing or 2 about evolution. There were not Neanderthals as they are portrayed to us today. It's all load of nonsense.

 

[RonPaulVolunteer]

I am with you all the way BeFranklin.

"We have no government armed in power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."

John Adams, Source: Oct. 11, 1798; Address to the military

 

[Truth Warrior]

Puhleese, learn a thing or 2 about evolution. There were not Neanderthals as they are portrayed to us today. It's all load of nonsense.

Puhleese, learn a thing or 2 about Neanderthals.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neanderthals/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
http://www.ecotao.com/holism/hu_neand.htm
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/neand.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_extinction_hypotheses
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/08/neanderthals-no.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/neanderthal_prog_summary.shtml
http://www.bagheera.com/inthewild/ext_neanderl.htm
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/N/neanderthal/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18492484/
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/060508_human_evolution.html
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/10/neanderthals/hall-text
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080812-neandertal-dna.html
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/13/7663
http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/1997/May/hour1_053097.html
http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/neand.htm
http://www.archaeologyinfo.com/homoneaderthalensis.htm
http://www.ecotao.com/holism/huevo/index.html
http://www.theneanderthals.com

 

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Puhleese, learn a thing or 2 about Neanderthals.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neanderthals/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
http://www.ecotao.com/holism/hu_neand.htm
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/neand.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_extinction_hypotheses
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/08/neanderthals-no.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/neanderthal_prog_summary.shtml
http://www.bagheera.com/inthewild/ext_neanderl.htm
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/N/neanderthal/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18492484/
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/060508_human_evolution.html
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/10/neanderthals/hall-text
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080812-neandertal-dna.html
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/13/7663
http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/1997/May/hour1_053097.html
http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/neand.htm
http://www.archaeologyinfo.com/homoneaderthalensis.htm
http://www.ecotao.com/holism/huevo/index.html
http://www.theneanderthals.com

Yes indeed. Go count all the maybe, could have, it's presumed, possibly, might have, we think, it is supposed, and "theories" on those pages... Speaks for itself. my point is made. Thanks! Appreciate it!

 

[Truth Warrior]

Yes indeed. Go count or the maybe, could have, it's presumed, possibly, might have, we think, it is supposed, and "theories" on those pages... Speaks for itself. my point is made. Thanks! Appreciate it!

I don't BUY macroevolution either. Ask Theocrat about it.

 

[Truth Warrior]

​

​

 

[BeFranklin]

Hmmm... Usually when I receive a gift I say thank you, and might try and express my gratitude by returning the favor.

Using the term gift however, implies there is a conscious gift giver. In which case we could use one of our sense perceptions to actually detect/discover the giver.

When I venture across an unexplored country and settle unowned land. I am not receiving a gift from somebody, I'm just taking the property.

The modern sense being, all property rights stemming from the fundamental fact of self-ownership?

That is definately a difference. It could also impact a sense of duty, as well as having a shared moral sense of right and wrong.

This 'freedom movement', comprised of Ron Paul conservatives and libertarians, at the very least has a much more consistent and logical framework than all other ideological camps. This movement, and Ron Paul's message, has already displayed the ability to reach out to people of all different backgrounds/walks of life. I'm sure you agree with this, and what you are really trying to say is that some people in this movement (atheists, anarchists, secular minarchists perhaps?) are not as consistent as you in that they don't root their philosophical basis of freedom on Christian dogma.

To me it seems the actual agenda of this thread is not seeking consistency for the sake of growing the movement, but just converting people who already support freedom and property rights to your Christian beliefs. This makes sense considering your record of character here, you always put God and religion first before everything.

You only started out in a good tone the first paragraph of the thread. Generally, people in this "not a freedom movement", dismiss all Christian thought right out.

My point is that what people are screaming at is how the founders believed, so people should be more tolerent.

People *ought* to be more tolerant anyway, but they won't listen to a Christian making a freedom argument from the bible, so I'm posting messages so people will get over themselves. Considering the number of people that call themselves Christians in the society, it has to have a direct effect on the spread of a pro-freedom message.

No, the point isn't so people will be saved. I'm capable of making far better arguments on my own without going into historical research.
I also believe God saves people, not people themselves. I haven't felt moved to post a salvation message here, but
I hope everyone will be saved according to God's will (and only God's will).

 

[AutoDas]

People *ought* to be more tolerant anyway, but they won't listen to a Christian making a freedom argument from the bible, so I'm posting messages so people will get over themselves. Considering the number of people that call themselves Christians in the society, it has to have a direct effect on the spread of a pro-freedom message.

The atheists here have made it abundantly clear that they are intolerant of all religions, not just Christianity

 

[ewizacft]

Do you mean that ROMAN one ABOUT Jesus, and NOT the one OF Jesus?

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."​

I'm confused, what are you talking about?

 

[Truth Warrior]

I'm confused, what are you talking about?

"Christianity", the "OFFICIAL" HUMAN institutionalized religion is/was originally merely a creation and fabrication of and by the Roman Empire.

How's that for IRONY?

It's ABOUT Jesus. It's NOT OF Jesus.

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be – a Christian." ~ Mark Twain

Read the "Sermon on the Mount", and compare THAT to the historic reality of "Christianity". The irreconcilable differences are indeed STARK!<IMHO>

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."​

I hope that helps.

Thanks for asking!

Still confused? WWJD?


"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make ye free" .... but first it will really tick ye off.