So What? [There should be nothing illegal about]

[PAF]

Laurence M. Vance
December 13, 2024


Forbes reports that “an underworld of sex workers, drug dealers and gamblers use Venmo to run their operations, most of which fly under the radar of law enforcement among millions of Venmo users. It is extremely difficult to estimate how much of Venmo’s total transactions are generated from vices, but Forbes estimates the underground economy on Venmo to be between $1 billion and $2 billion annually.”

So what?

There should be nothing illegal about sex work, drug dealing, or gambling. Lysander Spooner had it right many years ago:

"Vices are those acts by which a man harms himself or his property. Crimes are those acts by which one man harms the person or property of another. Vices are simply the errors which a man makes in his search after his own happiness. Unlike crimes, they imply no malice toward others, and no interference with their persons or property.

Unless this clear distinction between vices and crimes be made and recognized by the laws, there can be on earth no such thing as individual right, liberty, or property — no such things as the right of one man to the control of his own person and property, and the corresponding and coequal rights of another man to the control of his own person and property."​

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/so-what-3/


​

 

[TheTexan]

Vices are those acts by which a man harms himself or his property.

Both of which are the property of the state

When you harm yourself, you're harming one of the state's tax slaves

 

[Brian4Liberty]

It's not "controlled opposition".

It's just a common and well-known manifestation of a particular form of libertarian autism sometimes referred to as "macho flashing" (which is the making of statements along the lines of "why, I am so libertarian, I believe that [insert provocative declaration intended to elicit responses of shock and/or disapproval]!"). It's nothing new or surprising, and it's at least as old as the Libertarian Party and organized activist libertarianism is.

 

[Snowball]

Spooner was wrong. Vices are harmful to society in many ways, including safety, health, and children.

 

[Anti Federalist]

When you no longer have a homogenous, high trust society, that can agree outside the heavy hand of government, that certain behaviors and acts are unacceptable, you have this.

And so you end up with either having to tolerate hookers cruising your neighborhood and crackheads shitting in the street, or a heavy handed police state.

Diversity is NOT strength

 

[otherone]

And so you end up with either having to tolerate hookers cruising your neighborhood and crackheads $#@!ting in the street, or a heavy handed police state.

We already have both.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

When you no longer have a homogenous, high trust society, that can agree outside the heavy hand of government, that certain behaviors and acts are unacceptable, you have this.

And so you end up with either having to tolerate hookers cruising your neighborhood and crackheads shitting in the street, or a heavy handed police state.

Diversity is NOT strength

<macho flash>

"It should be legal to catch stray or unaccompanied dogs and cats and eat them. Prove me wrong."

</macho flash>

 

[otherone]

Spooner was wrong. Vices are harmful to society in many ways, including safety, health, and children.

I was just about to agree with PAF, but then I wasn't thinking about the children.

 

[Anti Federalist]

<macho flash>

"It should be legal to catch stray or unaccompanied dogs and cats and eat them. Prove me wrong."

</macho flash>

Bright flash!

 

[PAF]

I was just about to agree with PAF, but then I wasn't thinking about the children.

Ignore the naysayers above, it is their way of "macho flashing" themselves.

"Vices are those acts by which a man harms himself or his property. Crimes are those acts by which one man harms the person or property of another.

Unless this clear distinction between vices and crimes be made and recognized by the laws, there can be on earth no such thing as individual right, liberty, or property..."​

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I was just about to agree with PAF, but then I wasn't thinking about the children.

"It's for the children!"

But my point is that the story is about Venmo, with the obvious next step that if Venmo is used for "illegal" purposes, it should be regulated (or banned).

That should be attacked directly, and on it's face. Venmo is simply a tool. Attempting to justify every single action that can be facilitated by the tool is a losing proposition. Another excuse for the government regulation or ban will come up even if you were to make one particular use "legal". It's also a distraction, and a blatant case of "macho flashing" for effect.

 

[Anti Federalist]

We already have both.

You're right...the worst of both worlds.

 

[PAF]

"It's for the children!"

But my point is that the story is about Venmo, with the obvious next step that if Venmo is used for "illegal" purposes, it should be regulated (or banned).

That should be attacked directly, and on it's face. Venmo is simply a tool. Attempting to justify every single action that can be facilitated by the tool is a losing proposition. Another excuse for the government regulation or ban will come up even if you were to make one particular use "legal". It's also a distraction, and a blatant case of "macho flashing" for effect.

I can buy that. But not everything comes down to "macho flashing". Examples are necessary to explain why and drive a point home.

 

[TheCount]

Looks like we found Matt Gaetz's pen name.