Property - the immediate Gift of God

[Truth Warrior]

No, and that is the point. Religion is useful to civilization, and in fact is necessary to it.

It's also very useful to BARBARIANS and savages.

Religion and politics are both the very same thing. They are both only, very old and very effective, means to control large masses of people. It has always only been that way, and it always only will be.

The ends do NOT justify the means.

 

[Truth Warrior]

"Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of Warre, where every man is Enemy to every man; the same is consequent to the time, wherein men live without other security, than what their own strength, and their own invention shall furnish them withall. In such condition, there is no place for Industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain; and consequently no Culture of the Earth; no Navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; no commodious Building; no Instruments of moving, and removing such things as require much force; no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continuall feare, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short." - Thomas Hobbes

War Is A Racket
A speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4377.htm

 

[BeFranklin]

Without an objective shared moral system, the society fails

It's also very useful to BARBARIANS and savages.

Religion and politics are both the very same thing. They are both only, very old and very effective, means to control large masses of people. It has always only been that way, and it always only will be.

The ends do NOT justify the means.

No they aren't the same thing. Religion deals with what people voluntary choose to believe on the inside to regulate their own lifes and conduct. Politics deals with how people organize with each other.

As an example, without an objective moral system, people will hate each other. One will post an insult, because in his moral system somone being irrational - as he defines it - deserves to be insulted. Another will turn the other cheek because in his system you are suppose to be patient. Or another will attack, because being truthful is what is right. They will end up hating each other because the other isn't being fair, because there is no objective moral system.

Every transaction that occurs between people has an unwritten underlining assumption about what is "fair". But if there is no objective shared morality system, no transcation between people in that society could possibly be fair, and the society will cease to exist. That is what is going on today.

 

[BeFranklin]

The general property of man in animals, in the soil, and in the productions of the soil, is the immediate gift of the bountiful Creator of all.
James Wilson

But if what is us'd as a Medium of Exchange is fluctuating in its Value it is no better than unjust Weights and Measures, both which are condemn'd by the Laws of GOD and Man, and therefore the longest and most universal Custom could never make the Use of such a Medium either lawful or reasonable.
Roger Sherman

Two of the founders. They aren't out of context, in this is what the founders believed, and many more exanmples are in the off-topics section of the forum. The divine inspiration of scriptures. You couldn't even hold office in many of the states of the Revolution unless you believed in the bible.

It was a rational objective shared moral system.

Although I'm sure I could do better explaining it, most of you are yelling various insults, foolish, barbaric, lucifien, socialists.

BUT THIS WERE OUR FOUNDERS.

I am not idolizing them. But I am spurning you all. They're system worked. You don't have a replacement

 

[Truth Warrior]

No they aren't the same thing. Religion deals with what people voluntary choose to believe on the inside to regulate their own lifes and conduct. Politics deals with how people organize with each other.

As an example, without an objective moral system, people will hate each other. One will post an insult, because in his moral system somone being irrational - as he defines it - deserves to be insulted. Another will turn the other cheek because in his system you are suppose to be patient. Or another will attack, because being truthful is what is right. They will end up hating each other because the other isn't being fair, because there is no objective moral system.

Every transaction that occurs between people has an unwritten underlining assumption about what is "fair". But if there is no objective shared morality system, no transcation between people in that society could possibly be fair, and the society will cease to exist. That is what is going on today.

As HUMAN "institutions" they constitute the left and right wings of the same "divide and conquer, power and control" EVIL bird.<IMHO>

Some might even call that bird Luciferian, in nature.

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."​

 

[Truth Warrior]

The general property of man in animals, in the soil, and in the productions of the soil, is the immediate gift of the bountiful Creator of all.
James Wilson

But if what is us'd as a Medium of Exchange is fluctuating in its Value it is no better than unjust Weights and Measures, both which are condemn'd by the Laws of GOD and Man, and therefore the longest and most universal Custom could never make the Use of such a Medium either lawful or reasonable.
Roger Sherman

Two of the founders. The second quote about money is like what I am saying about morality. If you have fluctuating moral values so every transaction in the society is insecure, you will cease to have morality in the society, and the society dies. In such a society, the good people will be at a disadvantage with the bad.

The gold standard for money is important, but the golden rule is more important.

The Founders are DEAD!

REALITY rocks and RULES!

I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin

 

[BeFranklin]

The Founders are DEAD!

REALITY rocks and RULES!

It must scare some people to read what the founders actually meant.

I've heard this about no other philosophers. It seems to me the founders philosophy is as equally worthy to be studied as any other.
And it has been shown to actually work in real life.

 

[BeFranklin]

As HUMAN "institutions" they constitute the left and right wings of the same "divide and conquer, power and control" EVIL bird.<IMHO>

Some might even call that bird Luciferian, in nature.

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."​

Whatever false religion might exist, the one that the founders of the country generally believed in worked, and is not "luciferian".

 

[BeFranklin]

Do some people not want a shared morality?

The general property of man in animals, in the soil, and in the productions of the soil, is the immediate gift of the bountiful Creator of all.
James Wilson

But if what is us'd as a Medium of Exchange is fluctuating in its Value it is no better than unjust Weights and Measures, both which are condemn'd by the Laws of GOD and Man, and therefore the longest and most universal Custom could never make the Use of such a Medium either lawful or reasonable.
Roger Sherman

Two of the founders. The second quote about money is like what I am saying about morality. If you have fluctuating moral values so every transaction in the society is insecure, you will cease to have morality in the society, and the society dies. In such a society, the good people will be at a disadvantage with the bad.

The gold standard for money is important, but the golden rule is more important.

bump for what is said here.

 

[Truth Warrior]

It must scare some people to read what the founders actually meant.

I've heard this about no other philosophers. It seems to me the founders philosophy is as equally worthy to be studied as any other.
And it has been shown to actually work in real life.

It doesn't "SCARE" me, I quote some of them pretty much all of the time.

In comparison to what other realistic alternatives, if I may ask?

Why is Ron calling and fighting for "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity"?

"What has always made the state a hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven."

 

[Truth Warrior]

Whatever false religion might exist, the one that the founders of the country generally believed in worked, and is not "luciferian".

Do you mean that ROMAN one ABOUT Jesus, and NOT the one OF Jesus?

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."​

 

[AutoDas]

Every argument you have made sounds exactly the same as any argument I would hear from a socialist, just substitute Government for God.

 

[BeFranklin]

Every argument you have made sounds exactly the same as any argument I would hear from a socialist, just substitute Government for God.

Our founders were socialists

 

[AutoDas]

Our founders were socialists

Yup, and that's why we're in this mess. American Democracy has failed.

 

[BeFranklin]

Yup, and that's why we're in this mess. American Democracy has failed.

Our founders weren't socialists, and they also didn't found a direct democracy.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Yup, and that's why we're in this mess. American Democracy has failed.

"Democracy is indispensable to socialism." -- Vladimir Lenin

 

[AutoDas]

Democracy is the road to socialism.
--KARL MARX

 

[BeFranklin]

The general property of man in animals, in the soil, and in the productions of the soil, is the immediate gift of the bountiful Creator of all.
James Wilson

But if what is us'd as a Medium of Exchange is fluctuating in its Value it is no better than unjust Weights and Measures, both which are condemn'd by the Laws of GOD and Man, and therefore the longest and most universal Custom could never make the Use of such a Medium either lawful or reasonable.
Roger Sherman

Two of the founders. They aren't out of context, this is what the founders believed, and many more examples are in the off-topics section of the forum. The divine inspiration of scriptures. You couldn't even hold office in many of the states of the Revolution unless you believed in the bible.

It was a rational objective written shared moral system.

Although I'm sure I could do better explaining it, most of you are yelling various insults; foolish, barbaric, lucifien, socialists.

BUT THESE WERE OUR FOUNDERS.

I am not idolizing them. But I am spurning you all. They're system worked. You don't have a replacement

 

[Truth Warrior]

Our founders weren't socialists, and they also didn't found a direct democracy.

'Lysander Spooner once said that he believed "that by false interpretations, and naked usurpations, the government has been made in practice a very widely, and almost wholly, different thing from what the Constitution itself purports to authorize." At the same time, he could not exonerate the Constitution, for it "has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." It is hard to argue with that.' -- Thomas E. Woods Jr

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[heavenlyboy34]

'Lysander Spooner once said that he believed "that by false interpretations, and naked usurpations, the government has been made in practice a very widely, and almost wholly, different thing from what the Constitution itself purports to authorize." At the same time, he could not exonerate the Constitution, for it "has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." It is hard to argue with that.' -- Thomas E. Woods Jr

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson

That's one of my fave Jefferson quotes!!