Presbyterian Assembly: Gay Marriage Is Christian

[phill4paul]

A person's personal beliefs do not establish the truth, nor do they set the laws in motion and uphold the universe as God by definition does. A person's personal belief of God does not define Who God is, and neither does their lack of belief limit God in any way.

"Truth", it seems to me by your declaration, is a personal belief. God, if he exists, is limited and cornered by your belief in your understanding of him. It seems to me.
Understand I am not being condescending or confrontational in my statement.
I understand the power of personal belief. I just don't believe in personal belief enough to believe that my beliefs are infallible.

 

[TER]

Who's to say which or what is the most correct?

Excellent question! The first answer is God. The next answer is what God has established to be the foundation and pillar of truth, namely the body of believers (the ekklesia, or 'church') sanctified by the Holy Spirit and who have held fast to the teachings of the apostles.

 

[phill4paul]

Dead wrong.

Thanks for correction but please be more specific.

 

[Crashland]

Thanks for correction but please be more specific.

1 Corinthians is not old testament.

 

[William Tell]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_to_the_Corinthians

It is New Testament.

 

[phill4paul]

Excellent question! The first answer is God. The next answer is what God has established to be the foundation and pillar of truth, namely the body of believers (the ekklesia, or 'church') sanctified by the Holy Spirit and who have held fast to the teachings of the apostles.

And what of those that do not believe a single thing of which you believe and therefore posted? Their beliefs are invalidated because you believe differently?

 

[TonySutton]

Maybe God moved them to vote in this manner. I would assume they prayed and asked for his guidance prior to starting the conference.

 

[phill4paul]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_to_the_Corinthians

It is New Testament.

1 Corinthians is not old testament.

Thanks. It's been a long while.

 

[Crashland]

Maybe God moved them to vote in this manner. I would assume they prayed and asked for his guidance prior to starting the conference.

A lot of people pray and ask God for guidance and yet end up with different conclusions as to what God wants.

 

[William Tell]

And what of those that do not believe a single thing of which you believe and therefore posted? Their beliefs are invalidated because you believe differently?

Either what the Bible teaches is true, or it is false. I am 100% certain it is true, obviously others do not have to agree with me.

 

[donnay]

Fair enough. I'm just saying beliefs are beliefs. You believe what you believe and others believe differently. All your quotes, correct me if I am wrong, came from the Old Testament. Which to some means that these views were invalidated by the New Testament. Others believe halfway in between. Or more right. Or more left.
Who's to say which or what is the most correct?

Nothing in the Old Testament is invalidated. What has happened is Jesus died for all our sins...so long as we recognize them and repent.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whom shall ever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The Bible...Old and New Testament is God's letter to us. We need to study it, chapter by chapter, verse by verse.

"Knowledge is power but only wisdom is liberty."

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[TER]

"Truth", it seems to me by your declaration, is a personal belief. God, if he exists, is limited and cornered by your belief in your understanding of him. It seems to me.
Understand I am not being condescending or confrontational in my statement.
I understand the power of personal belief. I just don't believe in personal belief enough to believe that my beliefs are infallible.

Believing that your personal beliefs are not infallible is the first and important step!

Where we are at difference is on our idea of truth. What has been revealed by God through the incarnation is that truth is a Person. Truth is not some philosophical concept or any kind of mental construct. Truth is a person. Unless one begins to understand this, then they will continue to ask themselves 'who is to say who is most correct?'

 

[phill4paul]

Either what the Bible teaches is true, or it is false. I am 100% certain it is true, obviously others do not have to agree with me.

And that's fine. I'm not 100% certain the Bible is false. And even if it is true then the minds of men tend to warp words to their own purposes. It's a convoluted mess. We humans a sure some kinda wonderment to any creator I am sure. Any way it is bed time. Been an exciting coupla days.
To everyone my prayer is that which ever God you worship make tomorrow a day to worship him by giving to a fellow man. Help someone. Be kind. G'night.

 

[Crashland]

Believing that your personal beliefs are not infallible is the first and important step!

Where we are at difference is on our idea of truth. What has been revealed by God through the incarnation is that truth is a Person. Truth is not some philosphical concept or any kind of mental construct. Truth is a person. Unless one begins to understand this, then they will continue to ask themselves 'who is to say who is most correct?'

Truth may be a person, but that person is not you or any other human, so it is perfectly reasonable to ask who has the most correct understanding of it.

 

[TER]

And what of those that do not believe a single thing of which you believe and therefore posted? Their beliefs are invalidated because you believe differently?

My beliefs in this particular case regarding gay marriage not my own. They are the teachings of Jesus Christ Who rose from the dead and which His loyal Apostoles have spread throughout the world. If another's beliefs are invalidated, it is not because I have invalidated them.

 

[William Tell]

And that's fine. I'm not 100% certain the Bible is false. And even if it is true then the minds of men tend to warp words to their own purposes. It's a convoluted mess. We humans a sure some kinda wonderment to any creator I am sure. Any way it is bed time. Been an exciting coupla days.
To everyone my prayer is that which ever God you worship make tomorrow a day to worship him by giving to a fellow man. Help someone. Be kind. G'night.

Good night, my prayer is we all seek truth, and find it.

 

[Crashland]

My beliefs in this particular case regarding gay marriage are not my own. They are my interpretation of the teachings of Jesus Christ Who rose from the dead and which His loyal Apostoles have spread throughout the world. If another's beliefs are invalidated, it is not because I have invalidated them.

Corrected.

 

[TER]

Truth may be a person, but that person is not you or any other human, so it is perfectly reasonable to ask who has the most correct understanding of it.

The Truth is God. Christ says 'I am the Truth'. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.

According to the saints, those who have been filled by this same Holy Spirit and share in the same love and communion in one mind and one faith, in other words, the church, have the most humanly possible correct understanding. Not by their own powers of reason, but by their obedience and humility and the grace of the Holy Spirit. For this reason the Scriptures tell us that the Church is the foundation and pillar of the truth.

The question then becomes: which Church? Which communion? Which faith?

 

[TER]

Corrected.

I mean to say, I willfully chose to follow the interpretations of the Church Fathers and not my own, and if my interpretation is at odds with them, then it is I who needs to be corrected.

 

[Crashland]

The Truth is God. Christ says 'I am the Truth'. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.

According to the saints, those who have been filled by this same Holy Spirit and share in the same love and communion in one mind and one faith, in other words, the church, have the most humanely possible correct understanding. Not by their own powers of reason, but by their obedience and humility and the grace of the Holy Spirit. For this reason the Scriptures tell us that the Church is the foundation and pillar of the truth.

The question then becomes: which Church? Which communion? Which faith?

Yes, exactly.