POTUS: "America Is Not a Christian, Jewish or Muslim Nation"

There is a huge difference between being a nation of Christians (which the founders were more or less) and a Christian Nation which certain sects are trying to rewrite history with.

This is the main point right here -- a Christian Nation is a government with a State Religion. Isn't that forbidden by the Constitution?

America never was, is not, and hopefully never will be a Christian Nation. I thought that was obvious enough to the folks here.
 
This has already been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court:

By a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court of the United States, in Holy Trinity Church v. U.S., 143 U.S. 457 (1892) declared in the Opinion written for the Court by Mr. Justice Brewer, that "These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

You can replace "is" with "was" if you like. But in 1892, I guess we were....
Fascinating. I'm curious how you found this excerpt.
 
I think I wanna cry, that's stuff is so beautiful. Thanks so much for posting.

This speech screams-out why they have been going after our souls for so long. They knew the strength of our foundation and they have been wanting to break it since we told them to F-off.

I started a thread called Here's your Godless Nation, where I am attempting to show how they utilize some aspects of culture to slowly ponerize us (ie. in part, turn us away from faith and out foundations). This is a key goal for them, and they have had some success with it as so obviously displayed in these forums.

Thanks again, this speech clearly demonstrates the absolute importance of our foundations in order to remain free and prosperous. I hope more will see this as the attacks on our humanity and souls grow more ominous.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on there, just because someone is willing to admit that America is not a Christian Nation does not mean he is not religious. Also, Christianity is not the only religion, nor the only religion with morals.
 
This has already been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court:

By a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court of the United States, in Holy Trinity Church v. U.S., 143 U.S. 457 (1892) declared in the Opinion written for the Court by Mr. Justice Brewer, that "These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

You can replace "is" with "was" if you like. But in 1892, I guess we were....

I think they were mistaken, if this is an accurate quote. They did not realize the graveness of what they said. A State Religion? That is extremely anti-liberty. There are a lot of Christians in America, and a lot of its founders were Christian -- but that is completely different than a 'Christian Nation'.
 
I think they were mistaken, if this is an accurate quote. They did not realize the graveness of what they said. A State Religion? That is extremely anti-liberty. There are a lot of Christians in America, and a lot of its founders were Christian -- but that is completely different than a 'Christian Nation'.

This was truly a court case. However, when they said "nation", they meant the overwhelming majority of the "People". The nation is "We the People", not the government. Jsut like a Christian church is the group of Christian people, not the church building. More people in the late 1800's understood this as most of them were Protestant Christians. People today don't always understand this since not as many Americans are of this same faith.

The U.S. Supreme Court actually spent close to 10 years to make this decision and I do not think they meant a State religion.

However, keep in mind that many States had State religions through the early 1800's. Because the U.S. Consitution had only Federal jurisdiction prior to the 14th Amendment. All States now have Constitutions that prohibit a State religion.
 
I think they were mistaken, if this is an accurate quote. They did not realize the graveness of what they said. A State Religion? That is extremely anti-liberty. There are a lot of Christians in America, and a lot of its founders were Christian -- but that is completely different than a 'Christian Nation'.

Same thing as above. Government is not always equivelent to the word "nation" or "country".
 
I think I wanna cry, that's stuff is so beautiful. Thanks so much for posting.

This speech screams-out why they have been going after our souls for so long. They knew the strength of our foundation and they have been wanting to break it since we told them to F-off.

I started a thread called Here's your Godless Nation, where I am attempting to show how they utilize some aspects of culture to slowly ponerize us (ie. in part, turn us away from faith and out foundations). This is a key goal for them, and they have had some success with it as so obviously displayed in these forums.

Thanks again, this speech clearly demonstrates the absolute importance of our foundations in order to remain free and prosperous. I hope more will see this as the attacks on our humanity and souls grow more ominous.

Besides the George Washington farewell speech, you might want to check out these very large threads:

Deists, The founders weren't.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=173113

Atheists, The founders weren't.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=173124

Thread on Revolution Era Sermons and the Black Milita
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=175054

Which isn't 1/10th of what is out there. The history has been rewritten, and the people who aren't saved find it comfortable to accept the falsehood.
 
I can trump that:

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology." - Thomas Jefferson

Hard to believe from a man that attended church every week and made the architectural designs for his local one.

Most Jefferson quotes are either made up or taken out of context. You'll need to read the actual source documents, and post a link to the whole thing to have a point.
 
This has already been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court:

By a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court of the United States, in Holy Trinity Church v. U.S., 143 U.S. 457 (1892) declared in the Opinion written for the Court by Mr. Justice Brewer, that "These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

You can replace "is" with "was" if you like. But in 1892, I guess we were....

So in example, there is nothing unusual by saying In God We Trust or One Nation Under God.
 
More Washington vs Obama

Washington General Orders
Head Quarters, New York, July 9, 1776.
Parole Manchester. Countersign Norfolk.
John Evans of Capt. Ledyards Company Col McDougall's Regiment--Hopkins Rice of Capt. Pierce's Company Col Ritzema's Regiment having been tried by a General Court Martial whereof Col. Read was President and found guilty of "Desertion," were sentenced to receive each Thirty-nine Lashes. The General approves the Sentences and orders them to be executed at the usual time and place.
Passes to go from the City are hereafter to be granted by John Berrien, Henry Wilmot and John Ray Junr. a Committee of the City appointed for that purpose--Officers of the Guards at the Ferries and Wharves, to be careful in making this regulation known to the Sentries, who are to see that the passes are signed by one of the above persons, and to be careful no Soldier goes over the Ferry without a pass from a General officer.

The North River Guard to be removed to the Market House near the Ferry-Stairs, as soon as it is fitted up.

The Hon. Continental Congress having been pleased to allow a Chaplain to each Regiment, with the pay of Thirty-three Dollars and one third pr month--The Colonels or commanding officers of each regiment are directed to procure Chaplains accordingly; persons of good Characters and exemplary lives--To see that all inferior officers and soldiers pay them a suitable respect and attend carefully upon religious exercises. The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger--The General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavour so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country.

The Hon. The Continental Congress, impelled by the dictates of duty, policy and necessity, having been pleased to dissolve the Connection which subsisted between this Country, and Great Britain, and to declare the United Colonies of North America, free and independent States: The several brigades are to be drawn up this evening on their respective Parades, at Six OClock, when the declaration of Congress, shewing the grounds and reasons of this measure, is to be read with an audible voice.

The General hopes this important Event will serve as a fresh incentive to every officer, and soldier, to act with Fidelity and Courage, as knowing that now the peace and safety of his Country depends (under God) solely on the success of our arms: And that he is now in the service of a State, possessed of sufficient power to reward his merit, and advance him to the highest Honors of a free Country.
The Brigade Majors are to receive, at the Adjutant Generals Office, several of the Declarations to be delivered to the Brigadiers General, and the Colonels of Regiments.

The Brigade Majors are to be excused from farther attendance at Head Quarters, except to receive the Orders of the day, that their time and attention may be withdrawn as little as possible, from the duties of their respective brigades.

In the above Obama quote, any importance to being a Christian seems to be negated while being propagated by the leader of the country. Here is the important difference with George Washington.
 
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So in example, there is nothing unusual by saying In God We Trust or One Nation Under God.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with In God We Trust or One Nation Under God, because those statements are about God and a religious people, not a specific religion. Christianity is not the only religion which worships God.

I think you are confusing every other religion with atheists... Just because someone admits there is no State Sponsored religion ('Christian Nation'), does not mean they are atheist. A Christian could also believe this.

There is no reason to feel as though you are a part of an elite collective due to your religion, otherwise why else is there a desire to feel as though this is a Christian Nation? It is certainly a fact that there are and have been more Christians than people of other religions in this nation, and that many of the founders were Christian, and it is good and admirable that they are/were religious, but that they are/were Christian in particular (in contrast with other religions) is not a point of superiority.
 
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And where does Ron Paul get his values from?

It's just that in his case he doesn't believe in forcing people to abide by them.
But if he was governor of a state it would be very interesting to see how he would run things because he always says it's up to each state to decide on the tough issues. So now he would have to make those tough choices

Would he allow the following under his Judao christian belief structure.

Drugs-Yes he views it like alcohol

Abortion- No, only under the mothers life being in danger

Capital Punishment- Yes

Gay Marriage-No, he might allow civil unions, in the name of freedom and equality, but traditional marriage is reserved for a man and a woman

If you don't think that Ron Paul personal morality and goodness and honesty aren't driven in part by his beleif structure as a christian, you have totally misread him.
 
I would certainly hope that he gets his values from religion!

I know he does, and that is good. More politicians should. That it is from the Christian religion is not the issue -- that it is from religion is important, though.
 
I think you are confusing every other religion with atheists... Just because someone admits there is no State Sponsored religion ('Christian Nation'), does not mean they are atheist. A Christian could also believe this.
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I doubt I am confusing anything.

When America was founded it was a Christian nation, and most of the state constitutions created in 1776 during the revolution required you to be a Christian to hold office.

All the way until maybe 40-60 years ago, America remained a Christian nation. Nation here should not be confused with the word government.
 
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It does not matter what the founders religion was, it is quite irrelevant.

Someone needs to google Libertarianism.

If Obama had actually advocated any religion over another, THAT would be a problem.
 
It does not matter what the founders religion was, it is quite irrelevant.

Someone needs to google Libertarianism.

If Obama had actually advocated any religion over another, THAT would be a problem.

Well, you've got a problem with George Washington and most of the founders then. And that is basically my point, a lot of people have nothing in common with the founders of our country (be they the well known leaders or the people in general). George Washington and the rest of the founders had no problems seeking publicly God.
 
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Definition of Nation

Main Entry: na·tion
Pronunciation: \ˈnā-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English nacioun, from Anglo-French naciun, from Latin nation-, natio birth, race, nation, from nasci to be born; akin to Latin gignere to beget — more at kin
Date: 14th century
1 a (1): nationality 5a (2): a politically organized nationality (3): a non-Jewish nationality <why do the nations conspire — Psalms 2:1 (Revised Standard Version)> b: a community of people composed of one or more nationalities and possessing a more or less defined territory and government c: a territorial division containing a body of people of one or more nationalities and usually characterized by relatively large size and independent status
2archaic : group, aggregation
3: a tribe or federation of tribes (as of American Indians)

Nation is not the same word as governmnet. It tends to mean more generally the same as "people".

Also note its etymology which ties in to some other threads here. Its related to the word "to be born".
 
Not questioning your statements... just that more people have suffered and died because of religion over the past 2 millennium, than about any other cause. Well, maybe governments have caused 10's of millions of innocents suffering/deaths.

Do you think you can win or conquer a country through a religious war? Didin't the planet waste centuries with the "HOLY WARS / DARK AGES? How's things going in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Religion interlaced with government appears to be quite a problem over history.



I would certainly hope that he gets his values from religion!

I know he does, and that is good. More politicians should. That it is from the Christian religion is not the issue -- that it is from religion is important, though.
 
Not questioning your statements... just that more people have suffered and died because of religion over the past 2 millennium, than about any other cause.

Actually, I believe athiest marxist countries and the ever loving anti jewish religion Nazis exceeded that number by quite a bit. The inquisitions were appaling. But athiests have certainly killed many.

The right way to have stated this was "government instituted state religions" have killed many. Then I'd agree.

Religions without government backed force can't kill anyone.
 
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It does not matter what the founders religion was, it is quite irrelevant.

Someone needs to google Libertarianism.

If Obama had actually advocated any religion over another, THAT would be a problem.

You don't have to believe in a god to have morals, or great ideas on how to run a country. Maybe there were religious, maybe they weren't. IRRELEVANT. they were men with a vision. That is all. this whole discussion makes me think some of you believe those of us who do not believe would not be capable of their intelligence... a large majority of ron paul supporters are atheist/agnostic. and we seem to be on the same page as the rest of you. god or no god, who honestly cares? this is life as we know it -- we, as humans, take care of it. and we are in charge of protecting it.
 
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