Pope says Church cannot be obsessed with gays, contraception, abortion

[GunnyFreedom]

I am not even a little bit Catholic, but I continue to be astonished at how desperately people are taking this man out of context to put words and ideas into his mouth that he never said. Choosing not to obsess over sin != acceptance of sin! SMH some of y'all woulda stoned a murderer by the name of Moses to death rather than listen to the man.

 

[malkusm]

I am not even a little bit Catholic, but I continue to be astonished at how desperately people are taking this man out of context to put words and ideas into his mouth that he never said. Choosing not to obsess over sin != acceptance of sin! SMH some of y'all woulda stoned a murderer by the name of Moses to death rather than listen to the man.

+rep for being the voice of reason, as you often are around here

 

[cajuncocoa]

I am not even a little bit Catholic, but I continue to be astonished at how desperately people are taking this man out of context to put words and ideas into his mouth that he never said. Choosing not to obsess over sin != acceptance of sin! SMH some of y'all woulda stoned a murderer by the name of Moses to death rather than listen to the man.

what malkusm said. +rep

 

[Brett85]

That's a good thing. There are many branches of Christianity with the Catholics being the biggest of the group. Maybe this statement will cause that divide to grow bigger. So the Catholics won't be stuck with the stink of those fringe Christians who believe all gays will go to hell. NEWSFLASH!! God doesn't judge us tilll we die but those fringe Christians seemed to have made that decision for God already.

I don't have the power to control who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, but the Bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin. I don't see why churches should be afraid to preach the word of God simply because they might offend some people.

 

[twomp]

First of all, to be clear, I'm talking about morality here, not laws. I fully support the legal right for any adult to have consensual sex with any other adult they want.

With that said, its not about how it affects me, its about what God commands, which should be important to any Christian (Although Francis doesn't qualify anyway). The stability of families is also in direct opposition to statism.

Okay then tell me how this "destabilizes" families? Since you bring up "morality", where in the bible does it say it is more immoral to be a homosexual than it is for someone to be a thief or any other "immoral" sins. Why do certain Christians make being gay much more of a "moral" sin then lying, cheating, or any other random sin we all do. We are all sinners yet some of us have decided that certain sins are worse than others. Please show me in the bible where certain sins fit in on the "moral" scale.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I don't have the power to control who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, but the Bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin. I don't see why churches should be afraid to preach the word of God simply because they might offend some people.

a LOT of things are sins.

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

^^^ This, for instance, is a bit higher on the priority list than homosexuality, yet it doesn't even get 1/100th the coverage.

I would beg to offer that obsessing over someone elses sinful nature is in and of itself sinful.

 

[Brett85]

a LOT of things are sins.



^^^ This, for instance, is a bit higher on the priority list than homosexuality, yet it doesn't even get 1/100th the coverage.

I would beg to offer that obsessing over someone elses sinful nature is in and of itself sinful.

I didn't say that it's any more of a sin than anything else, just that it's a sin. It gets more coverage than anything because it has become a political issue. I don't necessarily think that pastors should focus or "obsess" about the issue, but if someone comes up to them and asks them whether they think homosexuality is a sin, they should be honest and state that the Bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin.

 

[TER]

Okay then tell me how this "destabilizes" families?

FYI, this is a recent statement by Ecumenical Patriarchate Bartholomew (spiritual head of the Orthodox Church) when he was asked how gay marriage (and not homosexuality itself) threatens the family:

The Church, my beloved parents and children, and subsequently the family, which consists lawfully and by the command of God of men and women, and the children acquired, is not a foundation or association or a simple organization, but a Body, as it is wonderfully depicted by the Apostle Paul. And this parallelism is accurate and true. Church and marriage. Husband and wife. Body and its members.

This community, signified in the Mysteries and in the obedience of Faith, both in the Church and in the family, is sanctified and mystagogued through the Mystery of Marriage, which, according to the Fathers, is a mystery of co-creation, and the ontological link of love with the Head of the Body, to ensure health and life, which is salvation and sanctification.

 

[Lucille]

I am not even a little bit Catholic, but I continue to be astonished at how desperately people are taking this man out of context to put words and ideas into his mouth that he never said. Choosing not to obsess over sin != acceptance of sin! SMH some of y'all woulda stoned a murderer by the name of Moses to death rather than listen to the man.

Dreher says that's the problem:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/pope-francis-the-era-of-jp2-benedict-is-over/

I love his style — seriously, I do — but I am sure the liberal Pope has been very, very naive in his words here. Look at the weight the media, who amplify his words, put on the homosexuality, contraception, and abortion parts of a very long interview. The world wants to be told, “It’s okay, do what you like.” He no doubt doesn’t mean at all for that to be the lesson of his words, but that’s how they will be received. For liberals and Moralistic Therapeutic Deists within Catholicism, it’s springtime. For traditionalists and conservatives in the Catholic Church, it’s going to be a long winter.

 

[TER]

Dreher says that's the problem:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/pope-francis-the-era-of-jp2-benedict-is-over/

I like this Pope a lot, but he has these loooong interviews popping up here and there. Sometimes (especially when knowing how the media works) it is best to speak less.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

I didn't say that it's any more of a sin than anything else, just that it's a sin. It gets more coverage than anything because it has become a political issue. I don't necessarily think that pastors should focus or "obsess" about the issue, but if someone comes up to them and asks them whether they think homosexuality is a sin, they should be honest and state that the Bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin.

Covetousness is a sin that is committed by nearly 100% of the population. There are no laws against it. There is widespread social sanction for it. Where are the fire and brimstone sermons? Where are the cries for its criminalization, let alone the ostracism of those who are guilty of it? Where are the marches on state capitals featuring signs stating, "God hates coveters"?

It has become a political issue... because "conservative" people find it "icky".

 

[twomp]

FYI, this is a recent statement by Ecumenical Patriarchate Bartholomew (spiritual head of the Orthodox Church) when he was asked how gay marriage (and not homosexuality itself) threatens the family:

The Church, my beloved parents and children, and subsequently the family, which consists lawfully and by the command of God of men and women, and the children acquired, is not a foundation or association or a simple organization, but a Body, as it is wonderfully depicted by the Apostle Paul. And this parallelism is accurate and true. Church and marriage. Husband and wife. Body and its members.

This community, signified in the Mysteries and in the obedience of Faith, both in the Church and in the family, is sanctified and mystagogued through the Mystery of Marriage, which, according to the Fathers, is a mystery of co-creation, and the ontological link of love with the Head of the Body, to ensure health and life, which is salvation and sanctification.

With all due respect, that doesn't really say anything besides reaffirming their faith. I would like something more of like an example. (I.E. I was out eating with my family and we saw a homosexual couple walking by and afterwards my family was "destablized" and we were no longer a family.) Some thing along those lines. I've heard of gambling, cheating, alcohol and drugs tearing up a family but I haven't heard of any story about some gay people doing it. (Although I'm not saying it never happened, I would like to see, hear, read some examples of this "destabilizing of families" by gay people.)

 

[TER]

With all due respect, that doesn't really say anything besides reaffirming their faith. I would like something more of like an example. (I.E. I was out eating with my family and we saw a homosexual couple walking by and afterwards my family was "destablized" and we were no longer a family). Some thing along those lines. I've heard of gambling, cheating, alcohol and drugs tearing up a family but I haven't heard of any story about some gay people doing it. (Although I'm not saying it never happened, I would like to see, hear, read some examples of this "destabilizing of families" by gay people.

I think what the Patriarche is saying is how the mystical institution of marriage itself (with regards to its ontological link of love with God) is threatened on account of gay marriage. This is not speaking towards homosexual acts, but rather the institute of marriage itself, so it may not be apt with the current discussion.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I didn't say that it's any more of a sin than anything else, just that it's a sin. It gets more coverage than anything because it has become a political issue. I don't necessarily think that pastors should focus or "obsess" about the issue, but if someone comes up to them and asks them whether they think homosexuality is a sin, they should be honest and state that the Bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin.

Sure it is, but so is lust, gluttony, greed. The same people who can't stop talking about homosexuality, are the same people who shut their own eyes to the mirror. How many of these people who freak out over gay sex are themselves gluttons?

It's become a political issue because of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy in the Church to divert attention from their own failings onto an issue that is easy to foment outrage, and blowback from a group of sinners who are being singled out.

There is more theft and murder every day than there is gay sex. The irrational obsession is not only unhealthy, it's ungodly. It's actually leading to MORE sin because of alleged "Christians" putting the Name of God to stain by using it to foment hatred, enmity, and strife. These are not the fruits of the Spirit, they are the fruits of the flesh.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Covetousness is a sin that is committed by nearly 100% of the population. There are no laws against it. There is widespread social sanction for it. Where are the fire and brimstone sermons? Where are the cries for its criminalization, let alone the ostracism of those who are guilty of it? Where are the marches on state capitals featuring signs stating, "God hates coveters"?

It has become a political issue... because "conservative" people find it "icky".

Exactly!

 

[Brett85]

Sure it is, but so is lust, gluttony, greed. The same people who can't stop talking about homosexuality, are the same people who shut their own eyes to the mirror. How many of these people who freak out over gay sex are themselves gluttons?

It's become a political issue because of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy in the Church to divert attention from their own failings onto an issue that is easy to foment outrage, and blowback from a group of sinners who are being singled out.

There is more theft and murder every day than there is gay sex. The irrational obsession is not only unhealthy, it's ungodly. It's actually leading to MORE sin because of alleged "Christians" putting the Name of God to stain by using it to foment hatred, enmity, and strife. These are not the fruits of the Spirit, they are the fruits of the flesh.

How many people are claiming that theft and murder aren't sins? Homosexuality is an issue because you even have Christians within the church who are saying that homosexuality isn't a sin, which directly contradicts the word of God. I don't hear Christians within the church saying that murder, theft, and coveting aren't sins.

 

[TER]

Sure it is, but so is lust, gluttony, greed. The same people who can't stop talking about homosexuality, are the same people who shut their own eyes to the mirror. How many of these people who freak out over gay sex are themselves gluttons?

It's become a political issue because of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy in the Church to divert attention from their own failings onto an issue that is easy to foment outrage, and blowback from a group of sinners who are being singled out.

There is more theft and murder every day than there is gay sex. The irrational obsession is not only unhealthy, it's ungodly. It's actually leading to MORE sin because of alleged "Christians" putting the Name of God to stain by using it to foment hatred, enmity, and strife. These are not the fruits of the Spirit, they are the fruits of the flesh.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Gunny. But I think you would agree that the amount of gay propaganda on prime time network television and other media outlets are too disproportionate. This may also lead to blowback from those who do not wish to be inundated with such glamorization on a daily basis.

 

[malkusm]

 

[cajuncocoa]

a LOT of things are sins.



^^^ This, for instance, is a bit higher on the priority list than homosexuality, yet it doesn't even get 1/100th the coverage.

I would beg to offer that obsessing over someone elses sinful nature is in and of itself sinful.

Gunny's hitting home runs this evening....somebody rep him for me please, I'm out.

 

[Brett85]

Covetousness is a sin that is committed by nearly 100% of the population. There are no laws against it. There is widespread social sanction for it. Where are the fire and brimstone sermons? Where are the cries for its criminalization, let alone the ostracism of those who are guilty of it? Where are the marches on state capitals featuring signs stating, "God hates coveters"?

It has become a political issue... because "conservative" people find it "icky".

1) I don't know of anyone who is calling for homosexuality to be criminalized.
2) I don't know of anyone who is claiming that coveting isn't a sin, so I don't really think the comparision you're making is a valid comparison.
3) I haven't heard of anyone starting a parade called the "coveter's pride parade." Regardless of what you say, it's definitely not as simple as saying that these culture wars were actually started by social conservatives and Christians.