Politifact: Broun claims parallel to Ron Paul’s voting record

[erowe1]

I do not tolerate things I find to be extremely destructive to humanity. First and foremost, the state. Way down the road, but still of concern to me, religion.

How do you square that with the fact that you yourself are a religious zealot?

 

[Brett85]

No he doesn't. He says his faith is comfortable with evolution but that the question shouldn't be asked as a religious test. He opposes the question and demagoguery around it.

No, he flat out said that he doesn't accept the theory of evolution.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-20098876.html

 

[KingNothing]

You use religious tests?

It really is difficult not to discount anyone who believes the Earth was created in six days. Still, we've clearly seen that people can endorse Liberty and mythical beliefs like that, and it would be silly to suggest that we turn away all Christians, or Jews, or Muslims.

 

[mport1]

How do you square that with the fact that you yourself are a religious zealot?

How am I a religious zealot? I am not religious...

Religion - "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods."

 

[erowe1]

How am I a religious zealot? I am not religious...

Religion - "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods."

You cherry picked that line. Here's the whole entry from your own link:

re·li·gion

noun /riˈlijən/ 
religions, plural


1.The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods
- ideas about the relationship between science and religion


2.Details of belief as taught or discussed
- when the school first opened they taught only religion, Italian, and mathematics


3.A particular system of faith and worship
- the world's great religions


4.A pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance
- consumerism is the new religion

There's no such thing as a person who isn't religious. And someone like you who judges people harshly for answering religious questions differently than you do is a religious zealot.

There's nothing wrong with being a religious zealot, mind you. It's just that there's a certain irony about someone as religious as yourself at the same time condemning someone else for being religious.

 

[Brett85]

It really is difficult not to discount anyone who believes the Earth was created in six days. Still, we've clearly seen that people can endorse Liberty and mythical beliefs like that, and it would be silly to suggest that we turn away all Christians, or Jews, or Muslims.

It would certainly be silly to turn away the founder of the movement, Ron Paul, just because he believes in creationism and rejects evolution.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

I'll be praying for you guys. Given your interest in the subject, I'd bet God's already working in your lives to bring you around to Him.

Profoundly interesting, moving, even providential, to see the quote in your sig, bxm:



It's literally a metaphor for yourself and mport, who see only this shadow, the physical, observable world, have yet to know God and see the world as it really is, all the while living in His universe, oblivious to His presence and to the spiritual truth that is, in fact, the actual reality.

If this is your interpretation of the quote (I must admit it's a fair one since the Wachowski brothers made this is a painfully obvious Christian allegory) than consider me Cyrus because I was once unplugged and have happily rejoined my logical brethren in the matrix. The whole issue with the allegory that is the matrix is that they present a life in the matrix as far more appealing than one outside of it despite their "it's hard but worth it" bullshit. Which makes it a pretty apt analogy. Living your life which is a known quantifiable a certain way because of a belief in an unknown unquantifiable is illogical.

I believe we can't know anything outside of our construct for sure. There is this overwhelming concept in the Christian community that there is a void in non-Christians. If it exists, a lot of us don't feel it. I'm happy as shit and you can protest and tell me I'm not all you want, but that won't make me any less happy or in need of your faith.

 

[compromise]

Not is he is a crazy religious nut who doesn't use logic or reason.

To be honest, Ron probably agrees with him. They're both Southern Baptists. Also, I'm not sure why it really matters what his personal views on the Big Bang Theory and Evolution are.

 

[erowe1]

Living your life which is a known quantifiable a certain way because of a belief in an unknown unquantifiable is illogical.

Is the statement you make in this quote a known quantifiable or an unknown unquantifiable?

 

[FrankRep]

Broun is not somebody we want to be associated with the liberty movement: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/10/06/paul-broun-evolution-big-bang_n_1944808.html

He's one of those evil Christians?

 

[sailingaway]

No, he flat out said that he doesn't accept the theory of evolution.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-205_162-20098876.html

OK, you mean as in God didn't create people, not as in evolution doesn't occur. At least that is what I think he was saying there. He also addresses it in Liberty Defined or Revolution, I forget which, and gave more detail on that. At one point he basically said his faith doesn't hinge on it one way or the other (whether evolution the method God used in how God created people, is how I took that) but that he was seriously offended by that being a question of politicians.

 

[Brett85]

OK, you mean as in God didn't create people, not as in evolution doesn't occur. At least that is what I think he was saying there. He also addresses it in Liberty Defined or Revolution, I forget which, and gave more detail on that. At one point he basically said his faith doesn't hinge on it one way or the other (whether evolution the method God used in how God created people, is how I took that) but that he was seriously offended by that being a question of politicians.

I don't think the issue should have anything to do with whether someone should be in Congress or should be President or not. What difference does it make whether one believes in a literal six day creation? Someone like Paul Broun believes that education should be entirely a state issue and would never support a federal "intelligent design bill" or anything like that. It's sad that even people on this forum take the liberal position that believing in evolution is a requirement for running for political office. (Not you)

 

[RonPaulMall]

Yes, but there are different levels of lack of logic/empiricism, such as believing the Torah, Christian bible, Koran, etc. is the word of "god" and completely true vs. more moderate beliefs.

"Moderate" religious types are the most illogical of all from a strict logic/empiricism perspective.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Is the statement you make in this quote a known quantifiable or an unknown unquantifiable?

I don't understand. And I'm not arguing that being illogical is strictly bad. Just that logic can't be applied to the metaphysical. I respect people's freedom of conscience, but I don't care for georgiaboy's "i'll be praying for you lost souls" bit.

 

[georgiaboy]

It really is sad that anyone who believes in an all-powerful deity could not also believe that this deity could create an infinite number, let alone one, fully operational and mature universes, in six 24-hour periods.

Guess all-powerful has its limits for some.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

It really is sad that anyone who believes in an all-powerful deity could not also believe that this deity could create an infinite number, let alone one, fully operational and mature universes, in six 24-hour periods.

Guess all-powerful has its limits for some.

All-powerful is a concept that is completely outside of the construct of humans. So is infinity. It doesn't exist in our universe. Logically speaking, someone can believe a creator exists (acknowledging they are omnipotent is not inherent in this belief) that is outside of our physical realm. That doesn't preclude them from believing that physical laws govern our universe. You can not escape induction. Humans can't live without it. If you didn't use past experience to govern your life, you would already be dead. Thus, we all accept the nature of universal physical laws. Once you accept that, you understand that you must pay attention to these laws when you examine the evidence of how the earth was created.

That and it's pretty easy for Christians to swallow a non 7-day creation if they become aware of the fact that the Hebrew word in Genesis means "period of time" as well as "day".

 

[erowe1]

logic can't be applied to the metaphysical

Is it logical for you to believe this?

 

[erowe1]

You can not escape induction. Humans can't live without it.

Did you arrive at the above conclusion by way of induction?

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Did you arrive at the above conclusion by way of induction?

You are either being an obstructionist troll or doing a horrible job of attempting to employ the Socratic method. Your question would suggest you don't even know what induction is. If you don't plan on being serious, I don't plan on paying your posts any heed going forward. That is all.

 

[erowe1]

You are either being an obstructionist troll or doing a horrible job of attempting to employ the Socratic method. Your question would suggest you don't even know what induction is. If you don't plan on being serious, I don't plan on paying your posts any heed going forward. That is all.

Does that mean no?

ETA: I'm being serious.