POLITICO: Ron Paul aides ponder ‘frustrating’ race

[wgadget]

Fraud and Apathy

Fraud-induced apathy, even...the wave of the future.

This is our biggest danger: the "why bother" attitude.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Yes, a whole thread based on the assumption that demographics don't vary across counties and precincts.

This very concern that you just mentioned was addressed in the thread. It is more than a statistical certainty that the kinds of trends we saw do not just happen by accident. They were calculated.

 

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

More likely is the explanation that Ron's support just comes mostly outside the GOP. There have been several polls that state that up to 66% - yes, 66% - of Ron's support comes from people who belong to parties other than the GOP.

His numbers with the GOP base are abysmal, as are his numbers in the South.

I'm not sure what the point of waiting for a long term takeover is. Our national debt is greater than our GNP. The gig's up, it's almost time for all of us to go John the Baptist and reach as many people before it falls apart.

Many people who voted for Obama were from the GOP, and first-time voters as well. His numbers with the GOP may be abysmal, but then again, I guarantee they're "ensuring" that happens.

I agree with your conclusion.

 

[gerryb]

A semblance of truth, rather than excuses

The campaign is running against three guys, but the reality is ... Ron is running against the MSM ... They, for whatever reason, can't seem to figure this out.

What makes you think $30 million in TV ads, can somehow destroy the 24/7 billion(trillion?) dollar MSM messaging?

You run one 30 second ad... great. There are 86,370 other seconds in the day.

 

[pacelli]

I'm having a very hard time wrapping my head around this:

“They count the numbers and then they count the votes,” said Doug Wead, a Paul senior adviser who was on the call. “Did they get overconfident? … We’re digesting that.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73746.html#ixzz1oXM4oR00


How is it that the campaign still doesn't know what is going on, let alone have a plan for dealing with it? This far into the game and they still don't know why the numbers aren't adding up?

I thought the campaign was 'very pleased' with the results? Ron has said this at nearly every rally since Iowa.

I'm quite confused. If this is 100% a vote fraud issue then we need to address the issue, because otherwise we're just pissing in the wind.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Fraud-induced apathy, even...the wave of the future.

This is our biggest danger: the "why bother" attitude.

You are absolutely right. While I was going door-to-door in Iowa, this was one of the things I commonly ran across. "They will never let him win." Call me crazy, but I think they had the same people in mind when they said "they" as you or I do. That was their excuse for not showing up. It wasn't going to make a difference.

 

[JohnM]

His numbers with the GOP base are abysmal, ....

I'm not sure what the point of waiting for a long term takeover is.

I don't think there is any point in waiting for a long term takeover. However, working for a long term takeover is different.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm having a very hard time wrapping my head around this:



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73746.html#ixzz1oXM4oR00


How is it that the campaign still doesn't know what is going on, let alone have a plan for dealing with it? This far into the game and they still don't know why the numbers aren't adding up?

I thought the campaign was 'very pleased' with the results? Ron has said this at nearly every rally since Iowa.

I'm quite confused. If this is 100% a vote fraud issue then we need to address the issue, because otherwise we're just pissing in the wind.

That's our job. If the campaign does it, they just look like sore losers.

 

[Forty Twice]

I think Doug Wead was letting us know they think there was vote fraud. They just can't go out and say it because MSM will say RP is bat shit crazy.

We need to invent ways to counter the vote fraud.

RP gets huge numbers of voters to attend his rallies. Maybe we should turn these rallies into huge absentee voting sessions where people show their vote as they seal the envelope. All documented on videotape to be shown after official precinct votes are posted. Also film precinct voting areas for number of people entering/exiting on election day. It ain't gonna be easy. Real proof of fraud will go a long way to bringing more transparency back into the voting process.

Hopefully the campaign thought ahead and has been collecting such video evidence to be used after election to prove how bad our electoral process really is.

 

[wgadget]

You are absolutely right. While I was going door-to-door in Iowa, this was one of the things I commonly ran across. "They will never let him win. Call me crazy, but I think they had the same people in mind when they said "they" as you or I do. That was their excuse for not showing up. It wasn't going to make a difference.

Honest question: what do you think the chances are of people coming out to vote for him as a third party candidate, keeping in mind that people know it's a longshot yet they'd have a chance to voice thieir opposition to the PTB? Would voting for a third-party Ron Paul to say FU, Establishment get these people off the couch?

Personally, at this point in history, I think the idea has a lot of merit. Of course, fraud is still an option, but it might be a little more transparent. Not sure...

 

[coffeewithchess]

I'd say vote fraud and wild accusations from people on internet message boards who don't know what the hell they're talking about (such as yourself) is a pretty good excuse.

What wild accusations are you talking about? If you have proof of vote fraud, send it to the campaign and Ben Swann...afterall, if the campaign isn't suing/pressing charges on this issue, there's a problem right there for you if the evidence is all solid.
When I made a legitimate suggestion on how to help ensure a brokered convention, it gets moved to "hot topics"...yet all I see from you is complaining about vote fraud, something that I can't do anything about...other than COMPLAIN about on an internet forum, to the campaign, and/or to my representatives/locals.

Clearly while you're concentrating on old votes, some of us have been saying to ADDRESS issues holding him back to win future voters...that hasn't really happened.
I showed how a simple adjustment to one ad they already had, would help change the message for the older audience, see:


2 weeks before that, I put together another one to give the campaign an idea:


You can say needing to address the foreign policy issue, newsletters, and targeting older voters (ones that have a HISTORY of actually showing up and voting) are "wild accusations" and that some of us don't know what we're talking about...but perhaps we are looking at history as well, and understand RP must win the GOP nomination.

According to you though, the campaign has spent millions of dollars on a system that guaranteed him not a win, because of vote fraud...not sure people should give a campaign, guaranteed to lose (according to you), more money, especially if they aren't pursuing this.

So again, "wild accusations" according to you are those of us that have said the campaign is not listening to the voters that tell you why they don't like/understand RP, and NOT fashioning its message so it's easier for them to understand? Instead we should concentrate all our efforts on voting machines that won't be changed, unless a major player is involved...and I don't see where the campaign is doing much on it. Am I wrong?

 

[angelatc]

We lost Maine, Washington, North Dakota, Alaska and Virginia when we lost Iowa on January 3rd. No Social Security ads or National Defense ads + failure to push back hard against racism charges opened up an opportunity for Santorum in Iowa. From then on the dominoes started falling.

When we lost Iowa, the campaign should have made personnel changes and gone hard for Maine. Maine was our for the taking, and if the campaign had put as much effort into it as the grassroots did, the outcome would have been different. After that, yep to the rest of that post.

 

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

I think Doug Wead was letting us know they think there was vote fraud. They just can't go out and say it because MSM will say RP is bat shit crazy.

We need to invent ways to counter the vote fraud.

RP gets huge numbers of voters to attend his rallies. Maybe we should turn these rallies into huge absentee voting sessions where people show their vote as they seal the envelope. All documented on videotape to be shown after official precinct votes are posted. Also film precinct voting areas for number of people entering/exiting on election day. It ain't gonna be easy. Real proof of fraud will go a long way to bringing more transparency back into the voting process.

Hopefully the campaign thought ahead and has been collecting such video evidence to be used after election to prove how bad our electoral process really is.

I agree with this. They wouldn't be allowed to even state these things in the e-mails that get sent out, because the MSM would use it against us. I believe Wead was trying to signal to us.

 

[D.A.S.]

I'm not buying the vote fraud rhetoric, and I don't think we need to waste so much energy perpetuating this rhetoric. If the "New World Order" rhetoric makes us seem like a bunch of loons, the "vote fraud" rhetoric is certainly right up there.

The Campaign is holding huge rallies but very possibly isn't harnessing their potential into GOTV efforts -- I don't have information on that, but someone can correct me if they have evidence the campaign IS pushing strong GOTV efforts at rallies. Everyone who enters these rallies needs to be asked if they are registered to vote, and with which party, and the campaign needs to get the data on that. Voters who aren't registered need to be given either pre-filled registration cards or be asked to fill them out on the spot and have the campaign mail it in for them. Also, everyone entering a rally needs to sign in with some sort of contact info.

Rallies are huge power, but we need to harness that power into more than just to come out and scream for Paul and then go home.

Also, Dr. Paul is finally starting to talk about coming out and VOTING at his speeches. We've been pleading for months and asking him to tell the crowds "you must come out and vote for me on [election date] if you want any real change to happen". He started saying something like that in Alaska and Idaho, and he needs to continue doing more of that.

Basically, the campaign needs to step up its prep for rallies and town hall appearances to channel those events into registering voters and giving them info on their state's voting date/rules/times/locations... A lot of people consider this crappy "going out of their way" work and can easily decide "mehhh there were thousands of other people supporting Ron -- they won't miss me if I don't come out."

 

[jbauer]

In fairness the guy isn't a young wipersnapper. He is probably exahusted to say the least.

Amen. It also doesn't help that you do 2 mega-rallies and then go home to Clute Texas for 3 or 4 days at a time when Santorum is barnstorming entire states holding town halls and meet and greets all day every day.

The truth is they haven't campaigned very hard at all. I know that will make some people mad but its the truth. If Jesse doesn't realize this he's certifiably incompetent.

 

[EBounding]

I don't see ending the Presidential campaign as giving up; it's just time to redirect our efforts. We've reached all we could through Paul, so now it's time to support the candidates at the Congressional and local level to grow the movement.

Republicans are going to lose badly in November. We need to ensure that only liberty candidates are left standing. That said, I want to see Paul make it to the convention for a "last stand".

 

[RDM]

When we lost Iowa, the campaign should have made personnel changes and gone hard for Maine. Maine was our for the taking, and if the campaign had put as much effort into it as the grassroots did, the outcome would have been different. After that, yep to the rest of that post.

BINGO!!!!! We have a winner!!!!!!

 

[seeker4sho]

BOISE, Idaho — Ron Paul’s top strategists are confused and frustrated that the wild enthusiasm they see at their campaign rallies and events is not translating into votes.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73746.html

No confusion here -- most of those enthusiastic supporters are not registered Republicans. The general election will bare that out. Ron Paul is gaining supporters all across this country which include Independents and Democrats.

 

[D.A.S.]

When we lost Iowa, the campaign should have made personnel changes and gone hard for Maine. Maine was our for the taking, and if the campaign had put as much effort into it as the grassroots did, the outcome would have been different. After that, yep to the rest of that post.

I wholeheartedly agree here.

Here's the truth some people will not like to hear. Ron's Campaign is a family-run business -- Jesse Benton is an in-law, and one of Ron's granddaughters is managing the Facebook/Twitter accounts, at least used to. Ron is too NICE to get tough and say "Ok, things aren't happening the way we need them to happen, we need to change some things around, and we need to get more snappy with how we execute the rest of this thing." I guess this also depends on whether Ron felt that his finish in Iowa WAS a good one and whether he genuinely thought that he IS doing well through the caucus states and Maine -- maybe he even thought he's doing better than expected.

Here's what it boils down to. Ron is running for the position of the nation's top executive. Managing a national campaign is sort of a test for the much bigger job of being a country's top executive. Ron will need to hold a lot of people accountable as President and select good cabinet members to surround him that he can trust to act on his behalf. This was the same issue that plagued the newsletter thing -- not so much that he wrote them but more that he didn't immediately find out and fire someone who did write them. This was the same issue with the tweet mocking Jon Huntsman after Iowa ("we found your 1 voter in Iowa" or something) -- there didn't seem to be any accountability. Accountability is a big deal, and being a boss who isn't afraid to re-shuffle the line-up when needed is very important.

 

[V3n]

Can't blame the campaign for the state of the Country. It's just how far gone people are and how television driven they are. The campaign (and all of us) have done a great job doubling the figures from 4 years ago. No matter the outcome we all have to keep that tide going. Once our numbers are OVERWHELMING and we have people in positions of power, then no amount of fraud will be able to stop us.