Peak Oil discussion on CSpan1 now!

[torchbearer]

Accounting for subsidies, fuel made from TDP costs over $10/gallon with current technology. I was taken in by this fad/fraud myself until I did more research. It is not commercially viable without subsidies which means it is not commercially viable.

you got some sources on where it fails? the links i've provided says it can work.

 

[torchbearer]

Accounting for subsidies, fuel made from TDP costs over $10/gallon with current technology. I was taken in by this fad/fraud myself until I did more research. It is not commercially viable without subsidies which means it is not commercially viable.

they are making crude, not just unleaded gasoline.
there are many products derived from crude... so i'd have to see how your studies differ from the 2007 feasibility study i found.

 

[billyjoeallen]

they are making crude, not just unleaded gasoline.
there are many products derived from crude... so i'd have to see how your studies differ from the 2007 feasibility study i found.

Crude costs about $100/barrel. Crude from TDP costs more. It is largely irrelevant what the final products are.

(West Texas intermediate is different than the thick goo from Venezuelaas well as oil made from TDP, and produces differing amounts of gasoline, deisel, kerosene, etc. It also is priced differently, but I am accounting for this.)

The claims that oil created from TDP can be made cheaper are not factoring in the artificial tax savings from the alternative fuel subsidies.

 

[billyjoeallen]

http://www.energybulletin.net/1666.html

 

[billyjoeallen]

http://peakoiloptimist.blogspot.com/2006/01/missouri-shuts-down-carthage-thermal.html

 

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Peak oil is BS.

Scientists are about 1 year away from releasing their proof that oil is not what we think it is, and BP has already been reaping the rewards, opening up old dry wells and wow, they're full again. Fancy that... WHEN are we going to lose our Sheeple badges??

 

[billyjoeallen]

http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums/t/17959.aspx

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

they are making crude, not just unleaded gasoline.
there are many products derived from crude... so i'd have to see how your studies differ from the 2007 feasibility study i found.

OK - you've convinced me it's viable, though perhaps not economically viable right now.

thanks!

-n

 

[billyjoeallen]

There is no oil shortage and we are nowhere near peak oil.

High prices are the result of monetary inflation. Canada has known oil sands reserves twice as large as Saudi Arabia. The western slopes of the Rockies has oil shale. we have enough coal in the U.S. alone for 200 years.

It is likely that we will NEVER run out of oil, but we will find a better technology to replace it.
We exited the stone age and entered the bronze age because bronze was better than stones, not because we ran out of stones.

 

[billyjoeallen]

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2006/07/is_trashdiesel_.html?entry_id=1529346

 

[kyleAF]

Peak oil is BS.

Scientists are about 1 year away from releasing their proof that oil is not what we think it is, and BP has already been reaping the rewards, opening up old dry wells and wow, they're full again. Fancy that... WHEN are we going to lose our Sheeple badges??

Source?? The abiogenesis argument is an old one... discredited by most. It'd be nice though! (aside from the environmental impacts)

 

[Highstreet]

Yes, - VERY interesting presentation!

C-SPAN already has it online (it's about an hour)

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77530&pid=27026

Congressman Bartlett also has the GAO report on crude oil as well as his notes and at least some of the charts online:

http://bartlett.house.gov/
More reports and charts here:
http://bartlett.house.gov/EnergyUpdates/

A few things he DID NOT get into that are important - just notes...

objections about wind generation due to aesthetics
sugar and cannabis best source for ethanol
(he did mention there is only a 2% gain in energy, due to having to input energy into the system to produce ethanol but it's causing prices of corn, soy and wheat to double).
corporate farming practices using up the soil / high energy cost to produce modern fertilizers.
Corporate monopoly on ethanol production due to regulations + taxes
ocean energy - AU and NZ get 25% of energy via tidal generation. (he said it's possible but difficult due to distributed nature of production - first congress critter I've seen ever mentioning that it exists!).
(thermal gradients of sea water mentioned as potential EN source)
Flawed assumption that energy must be produced and distributed from a central facility.
(ARPA-E mentioned as potential solution - space race type program.)
Conservation - refrigerators are available that run on 12V, but not common or readily available. Also expensive due to low production. Super insulation, thermal chimneys, etc.

Sandia Sunshine to Petrol Project:

http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/releases/2007/sunshine.html

VERY WORTHWHILE to watch/read!

-n

Anyone have a video or know where it is on Cspan. That link goes to a script.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Anyone have a video or know where it is on Cspan. That link goes to a script.

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77531&id=8374404
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77531&id=8374402

works fine for me!

-n

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

It required Real Player for the video - do you have it?

-n

 

[eok321]

Peak oil has been predicted for over a century now. Unknown reserves are just thaty-unknown.

We will move out of the oil age not when we run out of oil, but when we find something better. We didn't move out of the stone age because we ran out of stones.

Are you havin a laff???

If part 1 of your statement you believe to be correct i advise you to read up on Marion King Hubbert (Hubberts Peak)



As for your 2nd statement...im just speechless and would like to share your optimism.

 

[billyjoeallen]

Are you havin a laff???

If part 1 of your statement you believe to be correct i advise you to read up on Marion King Hubbert (Hubberts Peak)



As for your 2nd statement...im just speechless and would like to share your optimism.

Yes, Hubbert predicted peak oil in 1956 as occurring between 1965 and 1970. Didn't happen. This is just a small example of extrapolations that ignore future technology, just like the world-wide famines and mass starvation predicted by Malthus in the previous century.

I am not an optimist. The economic future looks extremely dim, but not because the world is running out of oil. It is because we (the U.S.) are simply consuming and spending more than we are producing and the global credit cards are almost maxed out.

 

[eok321]

He predicted US peak then(early 70's) and was pretty much bang on..he also predicted world peak for around the late 90's but obviously couldnt factor in the late 70's oil crisis and the lag that obviously impacted on his prediction.

 

[billyjoeallen]

He predicted US peak then(early 70's) and was pretty much bang on..he also predicted world peak for around the late 90's but obviously couldnt factor in the late 70's oil crisis and the lag that obviously impacted on his prediction.

Known oil reserves are larger now than in the 90s. We find reserves faster than we can exploit them. The reason that has slowed down recently is artificial. The dems passed a windfall profits tax on the oil companies last year, eliminating the incentive thay had to find and exploit new fields.

Obviously there has to be an oil production peak someday, but that won't neccessarily mean an economic catastrophy. Alternative fuels and technology will come on line gradually as prices rise and oil production will fall gradually as well. The transition will quite possibly be smooth and gradual. Any dramatic change will more likely be the result of a new and dramatically superior technology that a dramatic decrease in supply.

 

[Highstreet]

It required Real Player for the video - do you have it?

-n

Yes, but it doesn't pop up on the page.

Is there a direct link I can put in Realplayer or WMP.

 

[Highstreet]

Known oil reserves are larger now than in the 90s. We find reserves faster than we can exploit them. The reason that has slowed down recently is artificial. The dems passed a windfall profits tax on the oil companies last year, eliminating the incentive thay had to find and exploit new fields.

Obviously there has to be an oil production peak someday, but that won't neccessarily mean an economic catastrophy. Alternative fuels and technology will come on line gradually as prices rise and oil production will fall gradually as well. The transition will quite possibly be smooth and gradual. Any dramatic change will more likely be the result of a new and dramatically superior technology that a dramatic decrease in supply.

Known Reserves "increased" every year until we peaked in 1971 here also. The same will happen with the world. The problem with world reserve numbers is they are not reliable, since most of the nations in the world will not allow an audit.

It won't necessarily mean an economic catastrophe, but it will add to the current problems. It will and has caused shortages. The only reason gas hasn't increased in price more here already, is because the price is already eliminating 3rd world countries that cannot afford $100 oil.