Peak Oil discussion on CSpan1 now!

[tangent4ronpaul]

Peak oil is a canard. Dr. Paul himself said that oil supply relative to gold supply is flat, meaning the price of oil in real money is constant. Oil discovery and recovery technology is improving all the time, compensating for depletion.

"depletion" is the operative word. As Rep Barnett emphasized, it's not about tomorrow - it's about the day after tomorrow.

Something else he didn't talk about - he mentioned a world without oil from an energy standpoint. Imagine a world without solvents of plastics.

In a free market oil is the cheapest energy source for a simple reason: it is the most plentiful.
If that ever changes, prices will change with it if government stays out of the market.

Most plentiful, yes - but you left out half of the equation: It has the highest energy return of any source out there. We get something like 98% of the energy from it after processing. With ethanol we get 2%.

-n

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

You need energy in the carbon waste to convert it. For example:

You drive your car

Oil => Gas => Motion => Heat => Exhaust (CO2) => Plants => Sun => BioFuel

You can't just get energy for free

OK - see the link for Sandia in the second post in this thread.

-n

 

[torchbearer]

I don't know about that - gotta ref?

-n

Convert carbon based garbage into crude oil.
Here you go national geographic: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.html

I really want to have one of these plants at every waste disposal center.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

You need energy in the carbon waste to convert it. For example:

You drive your car

Oil => Gas => Motion => Heat => Exhaust (CO2) => Plants => Sun => BioFuel

You can't just get energy for free

he said convert it into crude - not bio-fuel.

-n

 

[torchbearer]

Convert carbon based garbage into crude oil.
Here you go national geographic: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.html

I really want to have one of these plants at every waste disposal center.

there are tons of links on it: http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/13218/

Imagine recycling our carbon waste products into fuel.

 

[Sandra]

All this talk about how much oil is left does nothing when the powers that be choose to charge5.00 a gallon. The here and now tells us we're not going to be able to afford it, or what is does to the everyday items we need to survive. Food is going sky high, that's a given.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Convert carbon based garbage into crude oil.
Here you go national geographic: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.html

I really want to have one of these plants at every waste disposal center.

VERY COOL! - thanks!

however the article was from 2003 and there was a big question make as to if it could be ramped up to large scale production. If it worked, I'm suprised we aren't hearing about this instead of ethanol.

-n

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

there are tons of links on it: http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/13218/

Imagine recycling our carbon waste products into fuel.

link was also from 2003. Of the 2 links in the article, one went to best buy ads, the second went to Intel CPU ads.

no other links found.

-n

 

[torchbearer]

link was also from 2003. Of the 2 links in the article, one went to best buy ads, the second went to Intel CPU ads.

no other links found.

-n

geotimes 2006: http://www.geotimes.org/feb06/feature_trashenergy.html
also includes turning manure into energy, which isn't totally new.

 

[torchbearer]

USA Today 2004: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2004-01-22-kantor_x.htm

 

[torchbearer]

British article on it: http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/eco/zwaste2.html

 

[torchbearer]

and wiki on the process it uses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

 

[torchbearer]

another recent 2006 article on it and the two factories that are now proving the principles in practice: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1555781/posts

 

[torchbearer]

Transforming Waste to Fuel A Feasability Study
2007
http://www.thermaldepolymerization.org/news.php

 

[billyjoeallen]

You guys are talking about TDP and as of today it is a commercially NONviable technology.

Thermal depolymerization is NOT cost effective. A production sized plant was built in Arkansas to turn turkey offal (guts) into oil, but it lost money because they business model was faulty. The owners thought they could charge a disposal fee for aquiring the guts instead of purchasing it.

 

[billyjoeallen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

related- more efficient engines often result in MORE total oil consumption, not less. The reason is because useful work from oil becomes cheaper.

 

[torchbearer]

2007 UA students turning trash into energy: http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/local/50643.php

 

[torchbearer]

with the ability to turn carbon waste into crude, there is no cap on our oil supply.

We will always be able to develop crude even when we have none naturally left.
at that point, it would probably be too expensive for vehicle use, but would be used for plastics and such. unless they really enhance TDP efficiency over time... which could happen with many people working many different methods in competition for market share.

 

[billyjoeallen]

Energy technology has to be commercially viable. That is the whole ballgame. We can't power the grid with piezoelecticty or hand cranks. We have to think about baseload. Baseload doesn't mean wind turbines or solar- it means Nuclear, hydro or coal. no known alternative energy source can compete with the big three yet.

As for cars and other transportation, the issue in't the fuel, it's energy storage. Electric and hydrogen cars are limited only by battery technology. Hybrids are stupid because of the Jevon Paradox. They don't result in less greenhouse gasses, less oil burned or less money wasted. A regular gas-burning econobox is a cheaper and more environmentally sound alternative.

 

[billyjoeallen]

with the ability to turn carbon waste into crude, there is no cap on our oil supply.

We will always be able to develop crude even when we have none naturally left.
at that point, it would probably be too expensive for vehicle use, but would be used for plastics and such. unless they really enhance TDP efficiency over time... which could happen with many people working many different methods in competition for market share.

Accounting for subsidies, fuel made from TDP costs over $10/gallon with current technology. I was taken in by this fad/fraud myself until I did more research. It is not commercially viable without subsidies which means it is not commercially viable.