Pagan Elements in Christianity

[Ronin Truth]

Have you read all of what you just mentioned?

If so, did you not notice the authority with which Jesus spoke in the Sermon on the Mount? His audience did.
Matthew 7:28-29


And throughout that sermon you read Jesus saying things like the following:





And that is to say nothing about all of what you left out in your summary of Jesus's teaching; you left out easily the majority of what we have in the earliest records available. The teaching of Jesus was teaching about Jesus. It was all the things that I said it was in post 109. Every ethical demand that Jesus gave was only meaningful in the light of his teachings about himself, as the Messiah, the son of God, to whom all authority on Heaven and Earth has been given, the savior of those who believe in him, the center of world history, whose purpose in coming to this world was to die for sinners and rise again. If you cut out all of Jesus's teaching about himself and whittle Jesus's words down to a few tiny snippets like you just tried to do, you'll have to whittle it down even more to get to a teaching that is not all about Jesus. But if you do that, then all you will have done is whittle it down to something that no longer represents the teaching of Jesus in any accurate way, but is just some generic advice for living that could have as easily come from Confucius or Hillel or Plato or Zoroaster or you or me.

For two thousand+ years mankind has shown that it can not handle the unwhittled information, Maybe it's past time for some simplified and whittled efforts. Or maybe not. Complexity is the essence of the con and the hustle.

You seem to have a real hangup on "about" Jesus as do most Christians. I wonder why that is? Making Jesus divine dilutes his message and makes it easier to ignore.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[RJB]

I never cease to be amazed at man's never ending ability to take a basically really good idea and to then royally screw it up.

I agree with the sentiment, but as a man (or woman) in your best ability what is your man's outlook on what my faith should be?

 

[Terry1]

A brave soul indeed Prophet Terry1. Historically prophets don't seem to be particularly favored folks by the mob.

This is true. I've endured many a drive-by fruiting in my day. Love the fresh stuff.

 

[Ronin Truth]

What was lost? We still try to practice the tenants you mentioned of loving God and one another, yet we are admitted sinners?

"Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."--Yoda

Not nearly enough are making the effort nearly hard enough. What happened?

So what is your alternative ideal lifestyle for a Christian to live?

According to the book Jesus told his followers what to do and how to live. I gotta assume he must have thought it was possible.
Don't ask me. I have no better idea, I have a more than a full time job working on myself. Am I supposed to have a solution for everyone?

Yet you are either trying to claim more knowledge of Christianity than Christians or show a desire to restore what Christianity once was with no interest in living it. As someone who is not a Tasmanian, do you have this much interest in the politics of Tasmania?

Nope, I'm just a guy posting on the Ron Paul forum that likes Jesus and is none too fond of Christianity.


Then what is the point of the thread?

No point, every once in a while I just kinda enjoy yanking chains, rattling cages and generally stirring some things up. You may now return to your regular life.

Are we having any fun yet?

 

[Ronin Truth]

This is true. I've endured many a drive-by fruiting in my day. Love the fresh stuff.

It often gets much worse. Hang in there.

 

[Ronin Truth]

I agree with the sentiment, but as a man (or woman) in your best ability what is your man's outlook on what my faith should be?

If you like Jesus, I'd say just go with Jesus (much simplified). WWJD? Seems to cover many of life's challenges. For the rest, just wing it. That's just a quick shot off the top of my head.

 

[RJB]

Are we having any fun yet?

Always.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Always.

 

[erowe1]

For two thousand+ years mankind has shown that it can not handle the unwhittled information,

You may believe that. But you cannot pretend that your own whittled (i.e. made up) version of Jesus's teaching is really an accurate representation Jesus's teaching. If that's what you believe, then that's what you believe, but you got it from yourself, not Jesus.

 

[erowe1]

You seem to have a real hangup on "about" Jesus as do most Christians. I wonder why that is? Making Jesus divine dilutes his message and makes it easier to ignore.

It's because I want to be faithful to what Jesus taught. And what Jesus taught was all about himself, including his divinity. To take that away is to corrupt his message. To keep it is not to dilute it, but rather to adhere to what he himself taught. If you think that he just came to preach the Golden Rule that people already knew, and not to save us from our sins through his death and resurrection, then you missed the whole point of his entire life and teaching.

 

[Ronin Truth]

You may believe that. But you cannot pretend that your own whittled (i.e. made up) version of Jesus's teaching is really an accurate representation Jesus's teaching. If that's what you believe, then that's what you believe, but you got it from yourself, not Jesus.

Jesus Is an Anarchist (pdf)

 

[erowe1]

Jesus Is an Anarchist (pdf)

Case in point.

If you think that Jesus's deprecation of earthly rulers can stand on its own without Jesus's own teaching about himself, then you missed his point. Jesus didn't condemn them because all authority is bad. He condemned them because all authority is his and his alone. They were satanic pretenders to his throne as rightful king of all the earth.

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

-Jesus (Matthew 28:28-20).

 

[RJB]

You seem to have a real hangup on "about" Jesus as do most Christians. I wonder why that is? Making Jesus divine dilutes his message and makes it easier to ignore.

I would argue the opposite. You yourself said man royally screws stuff up. Then you attack the divine nature, and I did not make Jesus divine. He is.

And I agree with your point on WWJD. That's definitely what I should do before any thought or action. Including posting on this sometimes silly forum.

 

[Ronin Truth]

It's because I want to be faithful to what Jesus taught. And what Jesus taught was all about himself, including his divinity. To take that away is to corrupt his message. To keep it is not to dilute it, but rather to adhere to what he himself taught. If you think that he just came to preach the Golden Rule that people already knew, and not to save us from our sins through his death and resurrection, then you missed the whole point of his entire life and teaching.

I was raised Christian, but finally realized that what I was seeing was very far from what Jesus was teaching, so I chose Jesus instead of Christian.

Extraordinary claims require extaordinary evidence.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I was raised Christian, but finally realized that what I was seeing was very far from what Jesus was teaching, so I chose Jesus instead of Christian.

Extraordinary claims require extaordinary evidence.

What claim(s) are you referring to? Unclear antecedent is unclear.

 

[RJB]

Extraordinary claims require extaordinary evidence.

When I look back to my time as an atheist/agnostic, I said the same thing.

It's like someone climbs a mountain and sees the ocean in the distance and believes what he's experienced. When he tells his friends in the valley they scoff at him and want evidence. He tells them they will see the evidence if they climb the mountain. Yet they still scoff without climbing the mountain.

That's how it was when people told me to pray and repent. They had seen the light of Christ and felt his love. I scoffed and the funny thing was the only mountain I had to climb was the almost insurmountable mountain of my pride. Call on the Lord. He will answer.

 

[erowe1]

I was raised Christian, but finally realized that what I was seeing was very far from what Jesus was teaching, so I chose Jesus instead of Christian.

If you reject Jesus's teachings that he is the Messiah, the Lord, the unique Son of God, with authority to forgive your sins, to whom all authority in heaven and on earth has been given, and who came to this world to die for sinners and rise again, then you didn't choose Jesus, you rejected him.

 

[Ronin Truth]

I would argue the opposite. You yourself said man royally screws stuff up. Then you attack the divine nature, and I did not make Jesus divine. He is.

There was no attack. I can neither prove nor disprove his divinity. I just said it gets in the way, and is not ultimately relevant to what he taught. Between fully human and fully divine I choose fully human because I can deal with that.

I still screw stuff up, but usually not royally.

And I agree with your point on WWJD. That's definitely what I should do before any thought or action. Including posting on this sometimes silly forum.

Go my brother and silly sin no more. You are forgiven.

.....

 

[Dr.3D]

When I look back to my time as an atheist/agnostic, I said the same thing.

It's like someone climbs a mountain and sees the ocean in the distance and believes what he's experienced. When he tells his friends in the valley they scoff at him and want evidence. He tells them they will see the evidence if they climb the mountain. Yet they still scoff without climbing the mountain.

That's how it was when people told me to pray and repent. They had seen the light of Christ and felt his love. I scoffed and the funny thing was the only mountain I had to climb was the almost insurmountable mountain of my pride. Call on the Lord. He will answer.

So very true. He want's to be with you.

NRS Revelation 3:20 Listen! I am standing at the door, knocking; if you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to you and eat with you, and you with me.

 

[Ronin Truth]

If you reject Jesus's teachings that he is the Messiah, the Lord, the unique Son of God, with authority to forgive your sins, to whom all authority in heaven and on earth has been given, and who came to this world to die for sinners and rise again, then you didn't choose Jesus, you rejected him.

I thanked him for the forgiveness and we're cool. He said it was all right not to be a Christian. And I said that's what I thought.