Our US Constitution is NOT a social contract.

A state is a territorially-based coercive monopoly on the (claimed) legal use of violence against non-victimizers. That is a bit detailed, given most people just say "a geographically-defined monopoly on the use of violence", but that shorter description isn't quite right, even if more popular. A monopoly can be non-coercive (Austrian economics is instructive here as to the difference between consumer-created monopoly and a coercive monopoly - which I link to in the other thread I linked you to), and the state doesn't actually hold a monopoly on the use of violence (only the legal use of it against non-victimizers, as anyone can basically use self defense on an individual level). So I feel it necessary to be more specific. A state is a territorially-based coercive monopoly on the (claimed) legal use of violence against non-victimizers. This how they justify taxing people who haven't first created a victim, drug wars that attack non-victimizers, etc.

For your info..."state" means "compulsory government" generally, whereas "State" means political structures like Texas and Ohio. It's similar to how "libertarian" means someone who subscribes to the philosophy of libertarianism, while "Libertarian" means someone who is in the Libertarian Party. I think that was your confusion with how I used the term "state".

Notice also, the state when coupled with taxation essentially becomes indistinguishable from a mafia coupled with protection racket. Both are territorially-based coercive monopolies on the use of violence against non-victimizers. The state merely differs in that it is strong enough relative to its competing crime families to declare itself legal, and all competitors illegal. Both fund themselves via extortion...the state just uses euphemisms like "taxation" for what is actually extortion, and "preemptive war" for what is actually mass murder. But both are the same type of entity, and both do functionally the same things...they threaten you with violence as a consumer to pay them for a service you may or may not want, like, or use - and if you refuse to pay, or try to offer consumers an alternative choice in provision of the their services in the same territory, it is them you will need protection from (hence, a protection racket). Both are not very transparent, and therefore not very accountable, and both are creating higher than market-level prices and lower than market-level quality of service than otherwise would exist in an open, competitive, and free market for their services...which is the logical consequence of any coercive monopoly, monopsony, or cartel.

The only real difference is the relative (to other mafias) strength of the state makes it able to declare its crimes "legal" and all other competitors "illegal". Then it sets up brainwashing camps called "public schools/state education requirements on private schools" to make children learn to worship the state as a god, in a cult called nationalism. This becomes the religion of statism, and the statists become the cultists. Every mafia wishes they could declare their crimes "legal", and outlaw all competition, while brainwashing children to love the mafia and view taxes as "the cost of civilization". They'd love to brainwash kids who later become adults that this form of slavery is actually "liberty", "freedom", "civilized society", and "justice". It's a fantastic and lucrative scam.
 
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Do YOU know what the anti-federalists were? They were correct.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2007/03/laurence-m-vance/the-anti-federalists-were-right/

The Constitution was a coup for the Hamiltonians and big government. Worked pretty good, I'd say.

yes, I do. from your article.

The Anti-federalists were right. We don’t need to return to the government of the Framers of the Constitution, we need to return to the government that the Framers destroyed. And furthermore, Constitution or no Constitution: The centralization of power is always a great evil.

YES! the anti-federalist are against the constitution! just like you!

have YOU read the constitution? if so, can you say that it was followed?

why are the anti-federalist RIGHT about another contract (the 1st constitution).... if the contract in question (the 2nd constitution) was NOT followed?

I am a contractor, if I violate a contract, is it the contracts fault?
it is SILLY to argue that the contract failed.
 
I am a contractor, if I violate a contract, is it the contracts fault?
it is SILLY to argue that the contract failed.

If you use loopholes and poorly constructed meanings and deliberate wordings in the contract to defraud somebody then yes, the poorly written contract certainly has some level of blame.

That's why the Anti Feds insisted on a clear bill of rights, because they understood that the weasel words and amibigious phrasing would allow a federal monster to arise.
 
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I believe I started to see through the myth of the Constitution's greatness right around the time I read it. Who Killed the Constitution by Tom Woods and Kevin Gutzman was eye opening with regards to the blatant disregard/manipulation of the words within it as well as the disregard for the original intent of the Framers. No Treason by Lysander Spooner is indispensable to anyone who cares about freedom.

I do not hate the Constitution. I simply do not worship it as Christ reincarnate.

We've discussed this a few times actually. In fact, I think you still have not responded to many of the few thousand word posts I've made on the subject.

I bolded some conflicting thoughts.

the blatant disregard/manipulation of the words within it

we seem to agree that it has been blatantly, disregarded and ignored.
were we differ. is that I blame the "people" you blame the document, for this agreed upon error.

one person suggested that the word "we" in the opening sentence, made it a social contract. :rolleyes:

"we the people" even today, have the power to FORCE the changes that we wish to see happen, all we have to do, is the send the right people there to do it.
we are getting the government that we deserve.

both Ron Paul and Rand Paul believe that the constitution that we have now... offers us the best chance to avoid violence.
you, on the other hand.

I believe I started to see through the myth of the Constitution's greatness right around the time I read it

I still believe in Ron Paul, Rand Paul AND the constitution.
you do NOT.

therefore, YOU are here to cause trouble and give me grief..
 
If you use loopholes and poorly constructed meanings and deliberate wordings in the contract to defraud somebody then yes, the poorly written contract certainly has some level of blame.

That's why the Anti Feds insisted on a clear bill of rights, because they understood that the weasel words and amibious phrasing would allow a federal monster to arise.
+rep
 
If you use loopholes and poorly constructed meanings and deliberate wordings in the contract to defraud somebody then yes, the poorly written contract certainly has some level of blame.

That's why the Anti Feds insisted on a clear bill of rights, because they understood that the weasel words and amibious phrasing would allow a federal monster to arise.
this is where we disagree.
If you use loopholes and poorly constructed meanings and deliberate wordings in the contract to defraud somebody then yes, the poorly written contract certainly has some level of blame.

NO! the fault is STILL on me.

were the articles of confederation that you wish to divert the conversation towards...
the "iron clad" document that you venerate?

was it in fact inviolate? :confused:
 
this is where we disagree.

NO! the fault is STILL on me.

were the articles of confederation that you wish to divert the conversation towards...

the "iron clad" document that you venerate?

was it in fact inviolate? :confused:

First of all I don't think I mentioned the AoC once in this thread.

Second, of course not, if one is bound and determined to break a contract, then they will do so.

But it is easier to do so if the contract is fatally flawed from the outset to make it easy for the power hungry and corrupt to bring about a monster that we are dealing with now.

The only thing maintaining even a shred of liberty in this country is the fact that the BoR is so clearly worded it is much harder to circumvent.

Instead of bashing the Anti Federalists for some strange reason, you should be thanking them for having the foresight to demand the BoR.
 
First of all I don't think I mentioned the AoC once in this thread.

Second, of course not, if one is bound and determined to break a contract, then they will do so.

But it is easier to do so if the contract is fatally flawed from the outset to make it easy for the power hungry and corrupt to bring about a monster that we are dealing with now.

The only thing maintaining even a shred of liberty in this country is the fact that the BoR is so clearly worded it is much harder to circumvent.

Instead of bashing the Anti Federalists for some strange reason, you should be thanking them for having the foresight to demand the BoR.

all I have stated is that the anti-federalists. were in FACT. AGAINST the 2nd constitution.
seems that you are also not a big supporter of the AoC either. uh, OK.

can we agree, that the BOR, is a compilation of "Natural rights" given to us by our creator? yes?
so, IF they were SO frickin clear... why were the 9th and 10th added?
 
our US Constitution does NOT apply to the people. therefore it does NOT require their "consent"
why would you need to consent to something that does not apply to you?
you would not.

You are correct that the US Constitution does not have the consent of the people. But it claims to in its opening words.

I am glad to see that you rightfully recognize that as propaganda.
 
You are correct that the US Constitution does not have the consent of the people. But it claims to in its opening words.

I am glad to see that you rightfully recognize that as propaganda.

The number who actually consented to the Constitution of the United States, at the first, was very small. Considered as the act of the whole people, the adoption of the Constitution was the merest farce and imposture, binding upon nobody.
Lysander Spooner
 
So did Article I Section 8, and many other places.

dude, the BOR was "tacked" onto the 2nd Constitution. and was NOT central to or even involved in it's passage.

the BOR opened the door for it to be "amended" get it?
prior to the BOR, it ONLY pertained to and restricted the fedgov.

you would know these things IF you were not so busy fucking with people who SUPPORT and defend our constitution.
I did NOT have to take an oath to do this.

AF does not even support the Aoc. just what does he stand for then?
 
The number who actually consented to the Constitution of the United States, at the first, was very small. Considered as the act of the whole people, the adoption of the Constitution was the merest farce and imposture, binding upon nobody.
Lysander Spooner

stunningly profound dude.

it was the "states" pontificating via their representatives who brokered this deal.
this is NOT good enough for you, you require an "act of the whole people"
umm, there IS a word for that requirement.
(it starts with a "D") :)
 
But the Constitution already opened the door to tyranny without that.

yes, by it's very existence it recognized the "state" as something necessary.

I therefore bow my head in shame to YOUR profound wisdom and detailed understanding of the meaning of the word "state"

were I ONLY able to wrap my meager mind around this word. I would understand. :D
 
stunningly profound dude.

it was the "states" pontificating via their representatives who brokered this deal.
this is NOT good enough for you, you require an "act of the whole people"
umm, there IS a word for that requirement.
(it starts with a "D") :)

No. I believe that individuals should be free to associate as they choose. It's called "freedom". Anything less is "tyranny", no matter the percentage that approves.

All governments, the worst on earth, and the most tyrannical on earth, are free governments to that portion of the people who voluntarily support them.
Lysander Spooner
 
That's why the Anti Feds insisted on a clear bill of rights, because they understood that the weasel words and amibigious phrasing would allow a federal monster to arise.

Yes, it's a good thing they did, or our right to hunt and shoot cans would have been severely infringed, otherwise.
 
No. I believe that individuals should be free to associate as they choose. It's called "freedom". Anything less is "tyranny", no matter the percentage that approves.

All governments, the worst on earth, and the most tyrannical on earth, are free governments to that portion of the people who voluntarily support them.
Lysander Spooner

yet ANOTHER profound quote!
Lysander really should have used the word "state" instead of government, don't you agree?

not even an HVAC/R tech is able to understand THAT word!

I agree and bow my head in shame to your wisdom, ONLY 100% democracy with FULL compliance to vote is reasonable.
before we do ANYTHING, we must FORCE 100% of the people to provide "consent".

there is NO other path comrade.
 
I agree and bow my head in shame to your wisdom, ONLY 100% democracy with FULL compliance to vote is reasonable.
before we do ANYTHING, we must FORCE 100% of the people to provide "consent".

This would be great, especially if they are forced to watch the debates on FOX/CNN so that they can be informed voters like you and I
 
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