One, Big Beautiful Bill (The Mega-Bill)

[acptulsa]

People have been predicating that the debt will cause a collapse for decades and decades.

And the middle class hasn't been smaller in well over a hundred years. I guess it all depends on your definition of "collapse", doesn't it? The American Dream already has, for the vast majority.

So is debating in good faith, as people here have proven.

Says the guy making up libertarian dream bill boogeymen to glorify a disaster that'll raise the debt ten percent in a year. Talk about disingenuous. Tell your mirror we said hi, because that's what you're talking to.

 

[Occam's Banana]

So is debating in good faith, as people here have proven.

You are not trying to debate in good faith.

As before, you are simply looking for opportunities to sneer at and express contempt for those with whom you disagree.

So I'll just let you get back that with someone else.

 

[familydog]

You are not trying to debate in good faith.

As before, you are simply looking for opportunities to sneer at and express contempt for those with whom you disagree.

So I'll just let you get back that with someone else.

lol. Guy who sneered and expressed contempt by saying English is hard is complaining about someone else allegedly sneering and expressing contempt.

 

[nikcers]

And the middle class hasn't been smaller in well over a hundred years. I guess it all depends on your definition of "collapse", doesn't it? The American Dream already has, for the vast majority.

The American dream has worked out for more people than in history.

The population that was middle class is even richer in today's economy.

We just have a huge population and let millions of really poor people move here so our demographics changed.

 

[Occam's Banana]

You are not trying to debate in good faith.

lol. Guy who sneered and expressed contempt by saying English is hard is complaining about someone else allegedly sneering and expressing contempt.

LOL indeed

I said there were relatively few, compared to what its critics regarded as weightier negatives.

Relatively compared to what? Libertarian utopian dream bill?

Carry on.

 

[acptulsa]

lol. Guy who sneered and expressed contempt by saying English is hard is complaining about someone else allegedly sneering and expressing contempt.

Correct. You come here and sneer at us for bucking the evil flow. And your argument is invariably, but accomplishing something is better -- in essence, you're superior because what you do is easy, and what we do is hard.

So we sneer right back at you. Then you try to play victim cards like some progressive snowflake.

Call someone who cares about your victim cards, snowflake.

 

[acptulsa]

We just have a huge population and let millions of really poor people move here so our demographics changed.

Wrong again, bot. The Fed still did it, and your spam doesn't change anything.

 

[familydog]

LOL indeed




Carry on.

I'm not seeing any bad faith on my part there, unless you just define bad faith as disagreeing with you.

 

[nikcers]

Wrong again, bot. The Fed still did it, and your spam doesn't change anything.

The Federal government democratization of economic growth and the federal reserve did it.

That's why people live so long in our country. They have access to medicine that wouldn't have been possible 50 years ago.

What good is a lot of money in your bank account if your cancer kills you or your country gets conquered by totalitarian dictatorship?

A rising tide has lifted all boats because of democratic capitalism.

 

[Occam's Banana]

 

[Madison320]

He's right.

$40 trillion in debt is never being paid back, cannot be paid back unless you inflate, collapse and default or go to war with your creditors.

If the debt is made up, why would you have to "inflate, collapse and default or go to war with your creditors."?


If it's made up, nothing is going to happen.

 

[Madison320]

Some find it better than being smug, self-admiring, self-important and self-congratulatory about aiding and abetting evil just because they perceive it as "lesser".

You're just annoyed because we're right, but we're battling uphill all the time and it's too much like work.

How should we tickle your consciences? Tell you Trump's doing a heckofa job breaking all his promises, but Harris could possibly have done very slightly worse?

Some people think doing nothing is better than doing evil. Others are caught up in the notion that they can ensure less evil will be done this four years than the last four years. Who's dreaming? At least we aren't aiding and abetting evil. And if more people were to join us, critical mass could be achieved.

Do you agree with familydog that doing evil shit is better than doing nothing? Or does it do your heart a little bit of good to hear, "the federal government shut down"?

Are you saying voting for the lesser of two evils is bad, but that voting in general is good as long as you vote for someone good? Like Ron Paul for example?

Or are you saying that voting is bad no matter what?

 

[Anti Federalist]

If the debt is made up, why would you have to "inflate, collapse and default or go to war with your creditors."?


If it's made up, nothing is going to happen.

You're right, and that's the paradox, isn't it?

I'm over 60, and all my adult life and before, it's been said that the collapse is imminent, this cannot be sustained, invest all your money in canned goods and shotguns...and yet, here we are, over 60 years later and still kicking the can down the road.

It seems an impossibility.

 

[nikcers]

You're right, and that's the paradox, isn't it?

I'm over 60, and all my adult life and before, It's been said that the collapse is imminent, this cannot be sustained, invest all your money in canned goods and shotguns...and yet, here are, over 60 years later and still kicking the can down the road.

It seems an impossibility.

There is always a chance of a black swan.

Thats the whole idea behind being prepared for the worst.

Nobody can possibly predict all possible future events.

With enough information you can predict a lot but statistically low probability things happen even if the likelihood is low sometimes you do get struck by lightning twice.

The only certainty in life is uncertainty.

 

[acptulsa]

Are you saying voting for the lesser of two evils is bad, but that voting in general is good as long as you vote for someone good? Like Ron Paul for example?

Or are you saying that voting is bad no matter what?

There are a lot of ifs. But it can't be impossible to light a brushfire in Americans' minds that causes the population to, one, stop voting in the primaries for the name they've heard the most, and two, participate in the count.

 

[Anti Federalist]

OK, so at least this story was fake news...

 

[Madison320]

You're right, and that's the paradox, isn't it?

I'm over 60, and all my adult life and before, it's been said that the collapse is imminent, this cannot be sustained, invest all your money in canned goods and shotguns...and yet, here we are, over 60 years later and still kicking the can down the road.

It seems an impossibility.

I don't remember people saying collapse was "imminent" for 60 years. Since 2009 yes. And we had a pretty good wave of price inflation from 2021-2023 that 99% of the experts said was impossible.

I've been tracking the interest on the debt for 20 years and it's getting close to the point of no return. Math is usually right. It may take awhile but it's going to happen.

 

[TheTexan]

I don't remember people saying collapse was "imminent" for 60 years. Since 2009 yes. And we had a pretty good wave of price inflation from 2021-2023 that 99% of the experts said was impossible.

I've been tracking the interest on the debt for 20 years and it's getting close to the point of no return. Math is usually right. It may take awhile but it's going to happen.

Probably can keep it going for another decade or two.

Federal Debt: Total Public Debt as Percent of Gross Domestic Product

View the ratio of federal debt to the economic output of the U.S., which can indicate economic health and the sustainability of government borrowing.

fred.stlouisfed.org

My guess is we can get to 230 before it pops

 

[nikcers]

There are a lot of ifs. But it can't be impossible to light a brushfire in Americans' minds that causes the population to, one, stop voting in the primaries for the name they've heard the most, and two, participate in the count.

We used to vote just on the electoral college voter because we wouldnt have any way of knowing who it is we are voting for.

In today's world the whole country knows exactly who Donald Trump is though.

While that's not an argument to get rid of the electoral college and just elect people with the popular vote we still know a lot more about the person that is the president than we used to know.

For most people it doesnt really change their lives much on who the president is so they don't even vote but its the loud minority that causes revolutionary change like ending the draft when we ended the Vietnam war.

 

[Madison320]

Probably can keep it going for another decade or two.

Federal Debt: Total Public Debt as Percent of Gross Domestic Product

View the ratio of federal debt to the economic output of the U.S., which can indicate economic health and the sustainability of government borrowing.

fred.stlouisfed.org

My guess is we can get to 230 before it pops

I think GDP has got a lot of issues and is not that accurate. I use tax revenue instead of GDP. Interest on the debt/revenue is over 20% and has spiked way up the last couple years. I don't think we can tighten monetary policy ever again, debt/revenue would easily hit 40%. That means that 40% of taxes goes to paying interest. So the next spike in prices might be the dollar's collapse since we can't do anything about it.