On Free Immigration and Forced Integration

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On Free Immigration and Forced Integration

By Hans-Hermann Hoppe
July 11, 2014





The classical argument in favor of free immigration runs as follows: Other things being equal, businesses go to low-wage areas, and labor moves to high-wage areas, thus affecting a tendency toward the equalization of wage rates (for the same kind of labor) as well as the optimal localization of capital. An influx of migrants into a given-sized high-wage area will lower nominal wage rates. However, it will not lower real wage rates if the population is below its optimum size. To the contrary, if this is the case, the produced output will increase over-proportionally, and real incomes will actually rise. Thus, restrictions on immigration will harm the protected domestic workers qua consumers more than they gain qua producers. Moreover, immigration restrictions will increase the “flight” of capital abroad (the export of capital which otherwise might have stayed), still causing an equalization of wage rates (although somewhat more slowly), but leading to a less than optimal allocation of capital, thereby harming world living standards all-around.

In addition, traditionally labor unions, and nowadays environmentalists, are opposed to free immigration, and this should prima facie count as another argument in favor of a policy of free immigration.​
II
As it is stated, the above argument in favor of free immigration is irrefutable and correct. It would be foolish to attack it, just as it would be foolish to deny that free trade leads to higher living standards than does protectionism.

It would also be wrongheaded to attack the above case for free immigration by pointing out that because of the existence of a welfare state, immigration has become to a significant extent the immigration of welfare-bums, who, even if the United States, for instance, is below her optimal population point, do not increase but rather decrease average living standards. For this is not an argument against immigration but against the welfare state. To be sure, the welfare state should be destroyed, root and branch. However, in any case the problems of immigration and welfare are analytically distinct problems, and they must be treated accordingly.

The problem with the above argument is that it suffers from two interrelated shortcomings which invalidate its unconditional pro-immigration conclusion and/or which render the argument applicable only to a highly unrealistic – long bygone – situation in human history.

The first shortcoming will only be touched upon. To libertarians of the Austrian school, it should be clear that what constitutes “wealth” and “well-being” is subjective. Material wealth is not the only thing that counts. Thus, even if real incomes rise due to immigration, it does not follow that immigration must be considered “good,” for one might prefer lower living standards and a greater distance to other people over higher living standards and a smaller distance to others.

Instead, a second, related shortcoming will be the focus here. With regard to a given territory into which people immigrate, it is left unanalyzed who, if anyone, owns (controls) this territory. In fact, in order to render the above argument applicable, it is – implicitly – assumed that the territory in question is unowned, and that the immigrants enter virgin territory (open frontier). Obviously, this can no longer be assumed. If this assumption is dropped, however, the problem of immigration takes on an entirely new meaning and requires fundamental rethinking.​
III
For the purpose of illustration, let us first assume an anarcho-capitalist society. Though convinced that such a society is the only social order that can be defended as just, I do not want to explain here why this is the case. Instead, I will employ it as a conceptual benchmark, because this will help clear up the fundamental misconception of most contemporary free immigration advocates.

All land is privately owned, including all streets, rivers, airports, harbors, etc. With respect to some pieces of land, the property title may be unrestricted; that is, the owner is permitted to do with his property whatever he pleases as long as he does not physically damage the property owned by others. With respect to other territories, the property title may be more or less severely restricted. As is currently the case in some housing developments, the owner may be bound by contractual limitations on what he can do with his property (voluntary zoning), which might include residential vs. commercial use, no buildings more than four stories high, no sale or rent to Jews, Germans, Catholics, homosexuals, Haitians, families with or without children, or smokers, for example.

Clearly, under this scenario there exists no such thing as freedom of immigration. Rather, there exists the freedom of many independent private property owners to admit or exclude others from their own property in accordance with their own unrestricted or restricted property titles. Admission to some territories might be easy, while to others it might be nearly impossible. In any case, however, admission to the property of the admitting person does not imply a “freedom to move around,” unless other property owners consent to such movements. There will be as much immigration or non-immigration, inclusivity or exclusivity, desegregation or segregation, non-discrimination or discrimination based on racial, ethnic, linguistic, religious, cultural or whatever other grounds as individual owners or associations of individual owners allow.

Note that none of this, not even the most exclusive form of segregationism, has anything to do with a rejection of free trade and the adoption of protectionism. From the fact that one does not want to associate with or live in the neighborhood of Blacks, Turks, Catholics or Hindus, etc., it does not follow that one does not want to trade with them from a distance. To the contrary, it is precisely the absolute voluntariness of human association and separation – the absence of any form of forced integration – that makes peaceful relationships – free trade – between culturally, racially, ethnically, or religiously distinct people possible.​
IV
In an anarcho-capitalist society there is no government and, accordingly, no clear-cut distinction between inlanders (domestic citizens) and foreigners. This distinction comes into existence only with the establishment of a government, i.e., an institution which possesses a territorial monopoly of aggression (taxation). The territory over which a government’s taxing power extends becomes “inland,” and everyone residing outside of this territory becomes a foreigner. State borders (and passports), are an “unnatural” (coercive) institution. Indeed, their existence (and that of a domestic government) implies a two-fold distortion with respect to peoples’ natural inclination to associate with others. First, inlanders cannot exclude the government (the taxman) from their own property, but are subject to what one might call “forced integration” by government agents. Second, in order to be able to intrude on its subjects’ private property so as to tax them, a government must invariably take control of existing roads, and it will employ its tax revenue to produce even more roads to gain even better access to all private property, as a potential tax source. Thus, this over-production of roads does not involve merely an innocent facilitation of interregional trade – a lowering of transaction costs – as starry-eyed economists would have us believe, but it involves forced domestic integration (artificial desegregation of separate localities).

Moreover, with the establishment of a government and state borders, immigration takes on an entirely new meaning. Immigration becomes immigration by foreigners across state borders, and the decision as to whether or not a person should be admitted no longer rests with private property owners or associations of such owners but with the government as the ultimate sovereign of all domestic residents and the ultimate super-owner of all their properties. Now, if the government excludes a person while even one domestic resident wants to admit this very person onto his property, the result is forced exclusion (a phenomenon that does not exist under private property anarchism). Furthermore, if the government admits a person while there is not even one domestic resident who wants to have this person on his property, the result is forced integration (also non-existent under private property anarchism).​
V
It is now time to enrich the analysis through the introduction of a few “realistic” empirical assumptions. Let us assume that the government is privately owned. The ruler literally owns the entire country within state borders. He owns part of the territory outright (his property title is unrestricted), and he is partial owner of the rest (as landlord or residual claimant of all of his citizen-tenants real estate holdings, albeit restricted by some kind of pre-existing rental contract). He can sell and bequeath his property, and he can calculate and “realize” the monetary value of his capital (his country).

Traditional monarchies – and kings – are the closest historical examples of this form of government.

What will a king’s typical immigration and emigration policy be? Because he owns the entire country’s capital value, he will, assuming no more than his self-interest, tend to choose migration policies that preserve or enhance rather than diminish the value of his kingdom.

As far as emigration is concerned, a king will want to prevent the emigration of productive subjects, in particular of his best and most productive subjects, because losing them would lower the value of the kingdom. Thus, for example, from 1782 until 1824 a law prohibited the emigration of skilled workmen from Britain. On the other hand, a king will want to expel his non-productive and destructive subjects (criminals, bums, beggars, gypsies, vagabonds, etc.), for their removal from his territory would increase the value of his realm. For this reason Britain expelled tens of thousands of common criminals to North America and Australia.

On the other hand, as far as immigration policy is concerned, a king would want to keep the mob, as well as all people of inferior productive capabilities, out. People of the latter category would only be admitted temporarily, if at all, as seasonal workers without citizenship, and they would be barred from permanent property ownership. Thus, for example, after 1880 large numbers of Poles were hired as seasonal workers in Germany. A king would only permit the permanent immigration of superior or at least above-average people; i.e., those, whose residence in his kingdom would increase his own property value. Thus, for example, after 1685 (with the revocation of the Edict of Nantes) tens of thousands of Huguenots were permitted to settle in Prussia; and similarly Peter the Great, Frederick the Great, and Maria Theresia later promoted the immigration and settlement of large numbers of Germans in Russia, Prussia, and the eastern provinces of Austria-Hungary.

In brief, while through his immigration policies a king might not entirely avoid all cases of forced exclusion or forced integration, such policies would by and large do the same as what private property owners would do, if they could decide who to admit and who to exclude. That is, the king would be highly selective and very much concerned about improving the quality of the resident human capital so as to drive property values up, not down.​
VI
Migration policies become predictably different, once the government is publicly owned. The ruler no longer owns the country’s capital value, but only has current use of it. He cannot sell or bequeath his position as ruler; he is merely a temporary caretaker. Moreover, “free entry” into the position of a caretaker government exists. Anyone can, in principle, become the ruler of the country.

Democracies as they came into existence on a world-wide scale after World War I offer historical examples of public government.Migration policies become predictably different, once the government is publicly owned. The ruler no longer owns the country’s capital value, but only has current use of it. He cannot sell or bequeath his position as ruler; he is merely a temporary caretaker. Moreover, “free entry” into the position of a caretaker government exists. Anyone can, in principle, become the ruler of the country.

What are a democracy’s migration policies? Once again assuming no more than self-interest (maximizing monetary and psychic income: money and power), democratic rulers tend to maximize current income, which they can appropriate privately, at the expense of capital values, which they cannot appropriate privately. Hence, in accordance with democracy’s inherent egalitarianism of one-man-one-vote, they tend to pursue a distinctly egalitarian – non-discriminatory – emigration and immigration policy.

As far as emigration policy is concerned, this implies that for a democratic ruler it makes little, if any, difference whether productive or unproductive people, geniuses or bums leave the country. They have all one equal vote. In fact, democratic rulers might well be more concerned about the loss of a bum than that of a productive genius. While the loss of the latter would obviously lower the capital value of the country and loss of the former might actually increase it, a democratic ruler does not own the country. In the short run, which most interests a democratic ruler, the bum, voting most likely in favor of egalitarian measures, might be more valuable than the productive genius who, as egalitarianism’s prime victim, will more likely vote against the democratic ruler. For the same reason, a democratic ruler, quite unlike a king, undertakes little to actively expel those people whose presence within the country constitutes a negative externality (human trash, which drives individual property values down). In fact, such negative externalities – unproductive parasites, bums, and criminals – are likely to be his most reliable supporters.

As far as immigration policies are concerned, the incentives and disincentives are likewise distorted, and the results are equally perverse. For a democratic ruler, it also matters little whether bums or geniuses, below or above-average civilized and productive people immigrate into the country. Nor is he much concerned about the distinction between temporary workers (owners of work permits) and permanent, property owning immigrants (naturalized citizens). In fact, bums and unproductive people may well be preferable as residents and citizens, because they cause more so-called “social” problem,” and democratic rulers thrive on the existence of such problems. Moreover, bums and inferior people will likely support his egalitarian policies, whereas geniuses and superior people will not. The result of this policy of non-discrimination is forced integration: the forcing of masses of inferior immigrants onto domestic property owners who, if they could have decided for themselves, would have sharply discriminated and chosen very different neighbors for themselves. Thus, the United States immigration laws of 1965, as the best available example of democracy at work, eliminated all formerly existing “quality” concerns and the explicit preference for European immigrants and replaced it with a policy of almost complete non-discrimination (multi-culturalism).

Indeed, though rarely noticed, the immigration policy of a democracy is the mirror image of its policy toward internal population movements: toward the voluntary association and dissociation, segregation and desegregation, and the physical distancing and approximating of various private property owners. Like a king, a democratic ruler will promote spatial over-integration by over-producing the “public good” of roads. However, for a democratic ruler, unlike a king, it will not be sufficient that everyone can move next door to anyone else on government roads. Concerned about his current income and power rather than capital values and constrained by egalitarian sentiments, a democratic ruler will tend to go even further. Through non-discrimination laws – one cannot discriminate against Germans, Jews, Blacks, Catholics, Hindus, homosexuals, etc. – the government will want to open even the physical access and entrance to everyone’s property to everyone else. Thus, it is hardly surprising that the so-called “Civil Rights” legislation in the United States, which outlawed domestic discrimination on the basis of color, race, national origin, religion, gender, age, sexual orientation, disability, etc., and which thereby actually mandated forced integration, coincided with the adoption of a non-discriminatory immigration policy; i.e., mandated inter-national desegregagtion (forced integration).​
VII
The current situation in the United States and in Western Europe has nothing whatsoever to do with “free” immigration. It is forced integration, plain and simple, and forced integration is the predictable outcome of democratic – one-man-one-vote – rule. Abolishing forced integration requires a de-democratization of society, and ultimately the abolition of democracy. More specifically, the authority to admit or exclude should be stripped from the hands of the central government and re-assigned to the states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, residential districts, and ultimately to private property owners and their voluntary associations. The means to achieve this goal are decentralization and secession (both inherently un-democratic, and un-majoritarian). One would be well on the way toward a restoration of the freedom of association and exclusion as it is implied in the idea and institution of private property, and much of the social strife currently caused by forced integration would disappear, if only towns and villages could and would do what they did as a matter of course until well into the nineteenth century in Europe and the United States: to post signs regarding entrance requirements to the town, and once in town for entering specific pieces of property (no beggars or bums or homeless, but also no Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc.); to kick out those who do not fulfill these requirements as trespassers; and to solve the “naturalization” question somewhat along the Swiss model, where local assemblies, not the central government, determine who can and who cannot become a Swiss citizen.

What should one hope for and advocate as the relatively correct immigration policy, however, as long as the democratic central state is still in place and successfully arrogates the power to determine a uniform national immigration policy? The best one may hope for, even if it goes against the “nature” of a democracy and thus is not very likely to happen, is that the democratic rulers act as if they were the personal owners of the country and as if they had to decide who to include and who to exclude from their own personal property (into their very own houses). This means following a policy of utmost discrimination: of strict discrimination in favor of the human qualities of skill, character, and cultural compatibility.The current situation in the United States and in Western Europe has nothing whatsoever to do with “free” immigration. It is forced integration, plain and simple, and forced integration is the predictable outcome of democratic – one-man-one-vote – rule. Abolishing forced integration requires a de-democratization of society, and ultimately the abolition of democracy. More specifically, the authority to admit or exclude should be stripped from the hands of the central government and re-assigned to the states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, residential districts, and ultimately to private property owners and their voluntary associations. The means to achieve this goal are decentralization and secession (both inherently un-democratic, and un-majoritarian).

More specifically, it means distinguishing strictly between “citizens” (naturalized immigrants) and “resident aliens” and excluding the latter from all welfare entitlements. It means requiring as necessary, for resident alien status as well as for citizenship, the personal sponsorship by a resident citizen and his assumption of liability for all property damage caused by the immigrant. It implies requiring an existing employment contract with a resident citizen; moreover, for both categories but especially that of citizenship, it implies that all immigrants must demonstrate through tests not only (English) language proficiency, but all-around superior (above-average) intellectual performance and character structure as well as a compatible system of values – with the predictable result of a systematic pro-European immigration bias.​
 
Sorry if I'm not supposed to just post articles from other sites without comment, but I thought this was good enough to be worth sharing/discussing.

Any open-borders libertarians care to comment on Hoppe's piece here?
 
Good read. I've yet to really sit down and read any Hoppe.

In short, individuals have the right (and ought have the ability) to protect their property. There is no authority to stop one from acquiring land or limiting their ability to move freely, even if said movement is depreciating of property value (or offensive to a given class). Contracts are contracts, absent the taking advantage of the unsound, fraud, and the violation of one's rights. It would sound, and certainly reading some in the OP's other threads, that this article was posted with xenophobia and flawed ethics at heart. At the least, much of his dogma is possibly the result of chewing bridges.

I am also not an anarcho-capitalist. Others would be more suited to provide a response. I can think of a few but would leave them to respond in their free time.

The fundamental, underlying principle would be: Do you, by way of collecting a 'majority' (which is never the true majority, simply the majority of voters) have legitimate right to amend law and take things that do not belong to you [or the group]? Does the Constitution, which has never been read by the overwhelming majority, and never signed or agreed to by any living person, absent the few who comprise the government, which hardly the few of which would comprise the government, grant you the authority to violate rights? Is being birthed here or there, under which or whatever system, enough to constitute the infringement of liberty?
 
I'm gonna cut the irrelevant (what I see as irrelevant).

The classical argument in favor of free immigration runs as follows: Other things being equal, businesses go to low-wage areas, and labor moves to high-wage areas, thus affecting a tendency toward the equalization of wage rates (for the same kind of labor) as well as the optimal localization of capital. An influx of migrants into a given-sized high-wage area will lower nominal wage rates. However, it will not lower real wage rates if the population is below its optimum size. To the contrary, if this is the case, the produced output will increase over-proportionally, and real incomes will actually rise. Thus, restrictions on immigration will harm the protected domestic workers qua consumers more than they gain qua producers. Moreover, immigration restrictions will increase the “flight” of capital abroad (the export of capital which otherwise might have stayed), still causing an equalization of wage rates (although somewhat more slowly), but leading to a less than optimal allocation of capital, thereby harming world living standards all-around.

This is an economic benefit of free immigration, not an argument for it. He makes the argument latter in the piece, that being the freedom of association.

It would also be wrongheaded to attack the above case for free immigration by pointing out that because of the existence of a welfare state, immigration has become to a significant extent the immigration of welfare-bums, who, even if the United States, for instance, is below her optimal population point, do not increase but rather decrease average living standards. For this is not an argument against immigration but against the welfare state. To be sure, the welfare state should be destroyed, root and branch. However, in any case the problems of immigration and welfare are analytically distinct problems, and they must be treated accordingly.

Agreed, although I can't wrap my head around 'analytically distinct', but as long as distinct means distinct, then yes, I agree.

The first shortcoming will only be touched upon. To libertarians of the Austrian school, it should be clear that what constitutes “wealth” and “well-being” is subjective. Material wealth is not the only thing that counts. Thus, even if real incomes rise due to immigration, it does not follow that immigration must be considered “good,” for one might prefer lower living standards and a greater distance to other people over higher living standards and a smaller distance to others.

Agreed again, and thus why the economic benefits of free immigration are benefits, not reasoning.

Instead, a second, related shortcoming will be the focus here. With regard to a given territory into which people immigrate, it is left unanalyzed who, if anyone, owns (controls) this territory. In fact, in order to render the above argument applicable, it is – implicitly – assumed that the territory in question is unowned, and that the immigrants enter virgin territory (open frontier). Obviously, this can no longer be assumed. If this assumption is dropped, however, the problem of immigration takes on an entirely new meaning and requires fundamental rethinking.

Here again, he trips over his mistaking economic benefits as reasoning rather than benefits. But even if we were to frame this as purely economic this would, or could, still be false. For instance, if I owned a factory which I don't utilize 'efficiently', and sold it to an immigrant who did utilize it 'efficiently' his stated benefit of immigration would still apply.

All land is privately owned, including all streets, rivers, airports, harbors, etc. With respect to some pieces of land, the property title may be unrestricted; that is, the owner is permitted to do with his property whatever he pleases as long as he does not physically damage the property owned by others. With respect to other territories, the property title may be more or less severely restricted. As is currently the case in some housing developments, the owner may be bound by contractual limitations on what he can do with his property (voluntary zoning), which might include residential vs. commercial use, no buildings more than four stories high, no sale or rent to Jews, Germans, Catholics, homosexuals, Haitians, families with or without children, or smokers, for example.

[petergriffin] I could see this being the case if you are not the sole owner of the property (i.e. provision of a loan against the property), I don't understand though how this could be true if you are the sole owner.

Clearly, under this scenario there exists no such thing as freedom of immigration. Rather, there exists the freedom of many independent private property owners to admit or exclude others from their own property in accordance with their own unrestricted or restricted property titles. Admission to some territories might be easy, while to others it might be nearly impossible. In any case, however, admission to the property of the admitting person does not imply a “freedom to move around,” unless other property owners consent to such movements. There will be as much immigration or non-immigration, inclusivity or exclusivity, desegregation or segregation, non-discrimination or discrimination based on racial, ethnic, linguistic, religious, cultural or whatever other grounds as individual owners or associations of individual owners allow.

Agreed, other than the note.

In an anarcho-capitalist society there is no government and, accordingly, no clear-cut distinction between inlanders (domestic citizens) and foreigners. This distinction comes into existence only with the establishment of a government, i.e., an institution which possesses a territorial monopoly of aggression (taxation). The territory over which a government’s taxing power extends becomes “inland,” and everyone residing outside of this territory becomes a foreigner. State borders (and passports), are an “unnatural” (coercive) institution. Indeed, their existence (and that of a domestic government) implies a two-fold distortion with respect to peoples’ natural inclination to associate with others.

:)

In brief, while through his immigration policies a king might not entirely avoid all cases of forced exclusion or forced integration, such policies would by and large do the same as what private property owners would do, if they could decide who to admit and who to exclude. That is, the king would be highly selective and very much concerned about improving the quality of the resident human capital so as to drive property values up, not down.

:( Quality is subjective much like 'wealth' 'well-being' or 'good'. But, in this hypothetical where the king owns all property, his (subjective) decisions to admit or exclude would be exactly like that of private property owners, because he'd be the sole property owner.

The current situation in the United States and in Western Europe has nothing whatsoever to do with “free” immigration. It is forced integration, plain and simple, and forced integration is the predictable outcome of democratic – one-man-one-vote – rule. Abolishing forced integration requires a de-democratization of society, and ultimately the abolition of democracy. More specifically, the authority to admit or exclude should be stripped from the hands of the central government and re-assigned to the states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, residential districts, and ultimately to private property owners and their voluntary associations. The means to achieve this goal are decentralization and secession (both inherently un-democratic, and un-majoritarian). One would be well on the way toward a restoration of the freedom of association and exclusion as it is implied in the idea and institution of private property, and much of the social strife currently caused by forced integration would disappear, if only towns and villages could and would do what they did as a matter of course until well into the nineteenth century in Europe and the United States: to post signs regarding entrance requirements to the town, and once in town for entering specific pieces of property (no beggars or bums or homeless, but also no Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc.); to kick out those who do not fulfill these requirements as trespassers; and to solve the “naturalization” question somewhat along the Swiss model, where local assemblies, not the central government, determine who can and who cannot become a Swiss citizen.

Towns and villages are much less centralized than our federal government, but it no way (unless a sole individual owned the town or village) would rules by a town or village restricting the freedom of association be a way to restore the freedom of association.

What should one hope for and advocate as the relatively correct immigration policy, however, as long as the democratic central state is still in place and successfully arrogates the power to determine a uniform national immigration policy? The best one may hope for, even if it goes against the “nature” of a democracy and thus is not very likely to happen, is that the democratic rulers act as if they were the personal owners of the country and as if they had to decide who to include and who to exclude from their own personal property (into their very own houses). This means following a policy of utmost discrimination: of strict discrimination in favor of the human qualities of skill, character, and cultural compatibility.The current situation in the United States and in Western Europe has nothing whatsoever to do with “free” immigration. It is forced integration, plain and simple, and forced integration is the predictable outcome of democratic – one-man-one-vote – rule. Abolishing forced integration requires a de-democratization of society, and ultimately the abolition of democracy. More specifically, the authority to admit or exclude should be stripped from the hands of the central government and re-assigned to the states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, residential districts, and ultimately to private property owners and their voluntary associations. The means to achieve this goal are decentralization and secession (both inherently un-democratic, and un-majoritarian).

Why would we not hope and advocate for the freedom of association? If the ruler was prejudice against some class (religion, ethnicity, habits) and you happened to fit into that class, would you really want the ruler to act as if it was their own property? And how does giving the power to states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, and residential districts prevent forced integration or exclusion? The only way to do that is 'ultimately private property owners'.

More specifically, it means distinguishing strictly between “citizens” (naturalized immigrants) and “resident aliens” and excluding the latter from all welfare entitlements. It means requiring as necessary, for resident alien status as well as for citizenship, the personal sponsorship by a resident citizen and his assumption of liability for all property damage caused by the immigrant. It implies requiring an existing employment contract with a resident citizen; moreover, for both categories but especially that of citizenship, it implies that all immigrants must demonstrate through tests not only (English) language proficiency, but all-around superior (above-average) intellectual performance and character structure as well as a compatible system of values – with the predictable result of a systematic pro-European immigration bias.

Again, the author’s subjective values are better than advocating for the freedom of association?

If I cut anything you think is important out please tell me (not that my thoughts on the subject really matter). I agree with the author on plenty, but he started out with a poor premise (economic benefit vs reason), and then added more as he went (advocating for poor immigration policies vs freedom of association).
 
Any open-borders libertarians care to comment on Hoppe's piece here?

What's an "open-borders libertarian" and why would one care to comment on some dude's piece? Is a "closed-borders libertarian" closer to his perspective? I can't see how.

The piece makes an argument for "a uniform national immigration policy" (closed border) that is an open border in practice. "... requiring ... sponsorship". I.e., close the borders unless someone already on the other side can wave you over???

He seems to think we can turn people around because an HOA down the road has a "No Mexicans" (or whatever) policy. But, in reality, they don't, they won't add one, and if they did, there are plenty of other places to live.

If I favored closed borders, I'd suspect this guy of wanting to let too many people in. Or he is delusional in thinking his kind would control the process.
 
It would sound, and certainly reading some in the OP's other threads, that this article was posted with xenophobia and flawed ethics at heart. At the least, much of his dogma is possibly the result of chewing bridges.
picard-facepalm31e.jpg
 
I could see this being the case if you are not the sole owner of the property (i.e. provision of a loan against the property), I don't understand though how this could be true if you are the sole owner.
Consider the following situation: Suppose I built a house and sold it to another party with a provision in the contract stating that the purchaser agrees not to sell or rent the property to "Jews, Germans, Catholics, homosexuals, Haitians, families with or without children, or smokers," and furthermore that any sale of the property they may make in the future must contain this clause as well, thereby ensuring (if the contract is enforced as written) for all eternity that the property will not be owned or rented by "Jews, Germans, Catholics, homosexuals, Haitians, families with or without children, or smokers." Is this a valid contract? Should it be enforced? If not, why not? If so, are there any similar contracts that could be made which should not be enforced, in your opinion?
Towns and villages are much less centralized than our federal government, but it no way (unless a sole individual owned the town or village) would rules by a town or village restricting the freedom of association be a way to restore the freedom of association.
Why must the owner of the town or village be a sole individual in order to be able to exercise their right to freedom of association? If two people were to purchase the town or village, is it your assertion that in doing so they thereby ought to lose their right to freedom of association? If so, why? If not, then do you see what this implies about the validity of restrictions on the entrance of "beggars or bums or homeless . . . Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc." into the town or village?
Why would we not hope and advocate for the freedom of association?
You've answered your own question in the very next sentence:
If the ruler was prejudice against some class (religion, ethnicity, habits) and you happened to fit into that class, would you really want the ruler to act as if it was their own property?
In the same vein, consider the question of why one might not hope and advocate for freedom from rape: Suppose you really want to have sex with someone, and they don't want to have sex with you! Well, in that case, would you really want there to be universal laws against rape? Wouldn't it be better if the law said that rape was always prohibited unless YOU were doing the raping?

Likewise, if you are a member of a group that is (rightly and justifiably) discriminated against on the basis of statistically valid information about members of that group, then you will be opposed to "freedom of association," because other people exercising that freedom will be bad for you.
And how does giving the power to states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, and residential districts prevent forced integration or exclusion? The only way to do that is 'ultimately private property owners'.
Suppose states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, and residential districts were considered private property. In that case, forced integration/exclusion would be prevented by definition. Do you see why?

Now recognize that this is in fact a valid and legitimate way to view the world. Indeed, I'd argue that it is by far the most accurate and correct way to do so.
Again, the author’s subjective values are better than advocating for the freedom of association?
You are deeply confused and should re-examine what "freedom of association" means.
I agree with the author on plenty, but he started out with a poor premise (economic benefit vs reason)
He did not; you are mistaken.
and then added more as he went (advocating for poor immigration policies vs freedom of association).
The immigration policies he supports are excellent and should be implemented. What you call "freedom of association" is incoherent amounts to nothing more than pure communism.
 
Consider the following situation: Suppose I built a house and sold it to another party with a provision in the contract stating that the purchaser agrees not to sell or rent the property to "Jews, Germans, Catholics, homosexuals, Haitians, families with or without children, or smokers," and furthermore that any sale of the property they may make in the future must contain this clause as well, thereby ensuring (if the contract is enforced as written) for all eternity that the property will not be owned or rented by "Jews, Germans, Catholics, homosexuals, Haitians, families with or without children, or smokers." Is this a valid contract? Should it be enforced? If not, why not? If so, are there any similar contracts that could be made which should not be enforced, in your opinion?

Sure, I wouldn't purchase a property with such restrictions, but I can dig it. I think as far as this could go though is restricting whoever bought the property from you. So they can't sell to "whomever", but the person who buys that property from the person you sold it to wouldn't be under any obligation of the contract.

Why must the owner of the town or village be a sole individual in order to be able to exercise their right to freedom of association? If two people were to purchase the town or village, is it your assertion that in doing so they thereby ought to lose their right to freedom of association? If so, why? If not, then do you see what this implies about the validity of restrictions on the entrance of "beggars or bums or homeless . . . Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc." into the town or village?

Don't be so dense.

In the same vein, consider the question of why one might not hope and advocate for freedom from rape: Suppose you really want to have sex with someone, and they don't want to have sex with you! Well, in that case, would you really want there to be universal laws against rape? Wouldn't it be better if the law said that rape was always prohibited unless YOU were doing the raping?

Likewise, if you are a member of a group that is (rightly and justifiably) discriminated against on the basis of statistically valid information about members of that group, then you will be opposed to "freedom of association," because other people exercising that freedom will be bad for you.

It doesn't have to be 'rightly and justifiably' discrimination, it is their property, I have no right to it.

Suppose states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, and residential districts were considered private property. In that case, forced integration/exclusion would be prevented by definition. Do you see why?

Now recognize that this is in fact a valid and legitimate way to view the world. Indeed, I'd argue that it is by far the most accurate and correct way to do so.

I do not recognize that as a fact, you didn't make any argument, you made a statement.

You are deeply confused and should re-examine what "freedom of association" means.

cool

He did not; you are mistaken.

story

The immigration policies he supports are excellent and should be implemented. What you call "freedom of association" is incoherent amounts to nothing more than pure communism.

bro
 
What's an "open-borders libertarian" and why would one care to comment on some dude's piece?
An "open-borders libertarian," to my mind, would be someone who does not believe that it is legitimate or desirable for USG to prevent people from crossing its borders or taking up residence within them. I thought that one might be interested in commenting on Hoppe's piece here because he seems to take a different view of things, and it might be productive to figure out why individuals starting from a similar place and seeking similar goals might reach diametrically opposed conclusions.
Is a "closed-borders libertarian" closer to his perspective? I can't see how.
Well, as I alluded to above, an "open-borders libertarians" would argue that it is neither legitimate nor desirable for USG to prevent people from crossing its borders or taking up residence within them. What you call a "closed-borders libertarian" would argue the opposite, as Hoppe has here - that it is both legitimate and desirable for USG to prevent people from crossing its borders and taking up residence within them.
The piece makes an argument for "a uniform national immigration policy" (closed border) that is an open border in practice. "... requiring ... sponsorship". I.e., close the borders unless someone already on the other side can wave you over???
I'm having to bite my tongue to avoid making a sarcastic and insulting remark here, but I will point out that you have not read the piece very carefully at all and have as a consequence summarized it as making literally the exact opposite of the argument that it in fact makes. Allow me to quote it in full:

"It means requiring as necessary, for resident alien status as well as for citizenship, the personal sponsorship by a resident citizen and his assumption of liability for all property damage caused by the immigrant. It implies requiring an existing employment contract with a resident citizen; moreover, for both categories but especially that of citizenship, it implies that all immigrants must demonstrate through tests not only (English) language proficiency, but all-around superior (above-average) intellectual performance and character structure as well as a compatible system of valuesas well as a compatible system of values..."

To call this "an open border in practice" is jaw-droppingly retarded. If we assume that the native and potential immigrant populations have equal intelligence and character structure (a false assumption, but one that we'll make for argument's sake), then requiring that immigrants demonstrate "above-average" intellectual performance eliminates 50% of potential immigrants by definition. Tack on all the rest of the requirements and it quickly becomes obvious that putting such stringent standards in place would result in radically reduced levels of immigration, with most of it coming from a select few countries.

He seems to think we can turn people around because an HOA down the road has a "No Mexicans" (or whatever) policy. But, in reality, they don't, they won't add one
But suppose they put in a policy that was not designed to discriminate against Mexicans (or whoever) but had a disparate impact upon them? As a point of fact, there are an enormous number of businesses, homeowners, HOAs, etc. who would love to put such policies in place but are prevented from doing so by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Because policies that have a "disparate impact" are racist.

For quite some time in America it's been illegal to employ racists, sexists, and fascists, and mandatory to employ a precisely calibrated percentage of women, People of Color, etc. Because America is a free country and that's what freedom means.
and if they did, there are plenty of other places to live.
Right. Like Mexico! I am 100% in favor of allowing Mexicans to live in Mexico.
If I favored closed borders, I'd suspect this guy of wanting to let too many people in.
I think you may be using the term "closed borders" in a way that very few people who support immigration restrictions do. The quantity of immigrants is far less of a concern than the quality. If there happen to be a million+ potential immigrants with 115+ IQs and a strong work ethic who have jobs lined up can be expected to pay more in taxes than they consume in benefits, I say let them all in. If, on the other hand, there is a much smaller number of such people available, then I think we should let a much smaller number of people in.
Or he is delusional in thinking his kind would control the process.
Locking a border down really isn't that difficult if you actually want to do it. See: Israel, Soviet Union, etc. The problem is that our elites and political class do not want to secure the border - (R)s because they like cheap labor, (D)s because they like cheap votes. The losers in this game are the native poor and middle class.
 
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Sure, I wouldn't purchase a property with such restrictions, but I can dig it. I think as far as this could go though is restricting whoever bought the property from you. So they can't sell to "whomever", but the person who buys that property from the person you sold it to wouldn't be under any obligation of the contract.
I'm afraid you've ignored the second part of my question, which was: "If not, why not?"

It's all well and good to say that contracts you don't like ought not be enforced, but I'd like to know more about the reasoning that led you there.

"Because... if contracts I don't like get enforced, then I wouldn't like that!" is not an acceptable answer.
Don't be so dense.
I am so much smarter than you that we can barely be said to belong to the same species. If you want to accuse me of being "dense," then explain yourself, elsewise we must conclude that you are ignoring the question because you have no good answer.

Of course, we will eventually reach this conclusion anyway, because there is no good answer to the question posed, but you seem to be giving up much earlier than you must.
It doesn't have to be 'rightly and justifiably' discrimination, it is their property, I have no right to it.
But how are we to determine who gets what? That is, how are property rights apportioned?
I do not recognize that as a fact, you didn't make any argument, you made a statement.
With this much, at least, I can agree.
 
What should one hope for and advocate as the relatively correct immigration policy, however, as long as the democratic central state is still in place and successfully arrogates the power to determine a uniform national immigration policy? The best one may hope for, even if it goes against the “nature” of a democracy and thus is not very likely to happen, is that the democratic rulers act as if they were the personal owners of the country and as if they had to decide who to include and who to exclude from their own personal property (into their very own houses). This means following a policy of utmost discrimination: of strict discrimination in favor of the human qualities of skill, character, and cultural compatibility.

Why only for immigration? Should we also hope that the democratic rulers act as if they were the personal owners of the country in every respect? Should they spy on us, take as much money in taxes as they like, detain us without trial, and so on if they feel like it would improve the country (their property)? They aren't the owners of the country, so they don't have the right to do any of these things. Hoppe can't just get around this by saying that the government doesn't own these things. They also don't own the roads or anything else in the country. If they did have the right to restrict the roads (and other things generally looked at as government property), then they would at least have the right to highly regulate the road - search your car when you are driving down it, force you to pay taxes if you use it, detain you if you are acting suspiciously on the road, etc. Hoppe's argument would logically lead to the government being able to do all of these things.

Even just on immigration, Hoppe doesn't seem to differentiate between people outside the country that don't meet his "human qualities of skill, character, and cultural compatibility," and people already inside the country. If the central government acts as if it is the owner of the country, then why wouldn't it kick people out living here right now that don't meet these standards? Hoppe seems to realize that this would lead to some un-libertarian deportations, although not to the extent that he should. If I invite someone (who isn't one of his favored English speaking Europeans) from outside the country onto my property, this is perfectly allowed under his libertarian framework of private property rights, but his central government would not allow this. Allowing people to come if they get a sponsor (which doesn't even seem enough under Hoppe's framework to be allowed in) doesn't fix this problem. Do people currently here need to find a sponsor too?

Open immigration isn't forced integration. You can exclude people from your property under open immigration - to the extent that you can't (for example, businesses being restricted from saying "No Mexicans allowed" or some similarly racist policy), you also can't for people already here. The open immigration policy doesn't make this worse. You don't gain the right to use violence against an innocent person just because the government is using violence against you. The roads aren't owned by the government, and I don't want them to be. The immigrants didn't pay for the road, but nor did anyone born today. If I have the right to use the roads, then I can surely share that right with other people, just like I can let other people use my car. I'll gladly share this right with every single immigrant wanting to come into this country. This gives them just as much right to be here as anyone else, including Hoppe.

I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating. Hoppe can be considered an anarcho-capitalist in the same way Marx can be considered an anarcho-communist. Both support the end of the state. Both support an extremely powerful state over a limited one before we reach this goal. I consider Milton Friedman and other minarchists far more libertarian than Hoppe - since anarchy is unlikely anytime soon, the current policies one supports (given that there will be a state) seem far more important than the end goal one supports. Hoppe supports the government essentially owning the country. Friedman fought against that.
 
I'm afraid you've ignored the second part of my question, which was: "If not, why not?"

It's all well and good to say that contracts you don't like ought not be enforced, but I'd like to know more about the reasoning that led you there.

"Because... if contracts I don't like get enforced, then I wouldn't like that!" is not an acceptable answer.

I missed this the first time through:

and furthermore that any sale of the property they may make in the future must contain this clause as well

I have no problem with that. I think even the most racist of individuals would not buy a property where potential buyers are so limited, but that isn't what your asking.

I am so much smarter than you that we can barely be said to belong to the same species. If you want to accuse me of being "dense," then explain yourself, elsewise we must conclude that you are ignoring the question because you have no good answer.

How could I be more clear on my belief in property rights? If one, two, ten, 100, people own ALL the property in a given town, and they ALL have the policy that restricts the entrance of "beggars or bums or homeless . . . Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc.", then where could the "beggars or bums or homeless . . . Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc." go that wouldn't be violating someones property rights? But it is not a town decree that makes this so, it is the individual property owners. It would not restrict these individual owners from their freedom of association, to sell or allow on their property which resides in this given town "beggars or bums or homeless . . . Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc." if they so decide.

Of course, we will eventually reach this conclusion anyway, because there is no good answer to the question posed, but you seem to be giving up much earlier than you must.

:confused:

But how are we to determine who gets what? That is, how are property rights apportioned?

WE are not to determine who gets what, unless the property is ours. Generally you gain ownership of a property by buying it from the previous owner, sometimes inheritance, sometimes by way of gifts.
 
Forced integration runs in direct contrast to free association. Hoppe nails it.
 
Forced integration runs in direct contrast to free association. Hoppe nails it.

Know what runs in direct contrast with free association? Having a government so powerful that it can dictate what people you can and can't hire, who is allowed on your property, and who you can contract with.

And Hoppe argues that that is the proper policy for a government to have. Good job Hans, you should know better than to assume the government that you've given so much power will only do the things you advocate for (which is bad enough).

He nailed nothing in this piece.
 
Why only for immigration? Should we also hope that the democratic rulers act as if they were the personal owners of the country in every respect?
Yes.
Should they spy on us, take as much money in taxes as they like, detain us without trial, and so on if they feel like it would improve the country (their property)?
Yes.
They aren't the owners of the country, so they don't have the right to do any of these things.
They are the owners of the country, and they do have this right.
Hoppe can't just get around this by saying that the government doesn't own these things. They also don't own the roads or anything else in the country.
They do own the roads and everything else in the country, including you and me.
If they did have the right to restrict the roads (and other things generally looked at as government property), then they would at least have the right to highly regulate the road - search your car when you are driving down it, force you to pay taxes if you use it, detain you if you are acting suspiciously on the road, etc. Hoppe's argument would logically lead to the government being able to do all of these things.
And as we see, the government is in fact able to do all of these things. It follows logically that they must indeed possess these rights.
Even just on immigration, Hoppe doesn't seem to differentiate between people outside the country that don't meet his "human qualities of skill, character, and cultural compatibility," and people already inside the country. If the central government acts as if it is the owner of the country, then why wouldn't it kick people out living here right now that don't meet these standards?
It very well might!
Hoppe seems to realize that this would lead to some un-libertarian deportations, although not to the extent that he should. If I invite someone (who isn't one of his favored English speaking Europeans) from outside the country onto my property, this is perfectly allowed under his libertarian framework of private property rights, but his central government would not allow this.
There is no such thing as "your" property. You are a serf/slave; everything in your possession is stuff that you are renting from your owner: USG. When we speak of serfs/slaves possessing property, we are using shorthand for ease of communication. But the underlying reality is that all property rights are ultimately vested in the state.
Allowing people to come if they get a sponsor (which doesn't even seem enough under Hoppe's framework to be allowed in) doesn't fix this problem. Do people currently here need to find a sponsor too?
Not if they're able to provide for themselves. The purpose of requiring sponsors for immigrants is to ensure that liability for any damage they do can be placed on a person with something significant to lose. It's a form of insurance, similar to the requirement that default-prone renters co-sign with a more asset-laden individual.
Open immigration isn't forced integration. You can exclude people from your property under open immigration - to the extent that you can't (for example, businesses being restricted from saying "No Mexicans allowed" or some similarly racist policy), you also can't for people already here. The open immigration policy doesn't make this worse.
This is incorrect. As poor immigrants flow into a democratic state or country, they vote for politicians who promise to expropriate the property of citizens already living there and redistribute it to themselves. The more immigrants there are, the more rapidly this expropriation will occur. Thus an open immigration policy most certainly does make this worse.
You don't gain the right to use violence against an innocent person just because the government is using violence against you.
I see. So a group or individual that makes use of human shields renders themselves invulnerable to retaliation, in your view? If it is illegitimate to attack a tank/plane/ship with innocent civilians on board, then any army can make itself invincible and slaughter countless civilians itself simply by taking advantage of this fact. Thus, your moral system requires you to commit suicide. This should cause you to rethink it.
The roads aren't owned by the government, and I don't want them to be.
Whether they ought to be seems at least potentially worth debating, but how you can claim with a straight face that the roads are not in fact owned by the government (aside from private toll roads, of course) is beyond me.
The immigrants didn't pay for the road, but nor did anyone born today. If I have the right to use the roads, then I can surely share that right with other people, just like I can let other people use my car. I'll gladly share this right with every single immigrant wanting to come into this country. This gives them just as much right to be here as anyone else, including Hoppe.
You don't have any rights aside from those that you can forcibly defend, and nor does anyone else. Hope this helps.
 
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