**Official** Trayvon Martin thread

[RonPaulMall]

All this nonsense about simply talking to a neighbor to see if they live in your neighborhood is just that, complete nonsense. Zimmerman did no such thing. the moment he saw Martin he should have calmly approached him, as everyone here is in agreement you have the right to do, and asked him if he lived there. He didn't do that. He stalked him.

If that's your interpretation, fine. How is it relevant? Even if we accept your spin on his conduct, he clearly didn't stalk him in the criminal sense, so even though you might not like what Zimmerman did, it has absolutely no bearing on whether Zimmerman acted lawfully or not.

 

[TexanRudeBoy]

If there is anything we can agree on is that this case is going to be a circus like this country hasn't seen since OJ.

 

[TexanRudeBoy]

If that's your interpretation, fine. How is it relevant? Even if we accept your spin on his conduct, he clearly didn't stalk him in the criminal sense, so even though you might not like what Zimmerman did, it has absolutely no bearing on whether Zimmerman acted lawfully or not.

If Zimmerman is the aggressor then he simply could not have acted in self defense.

Spin? What spin? He saw a "suspicious" person, called 9/11 while following him, and then a confrontation ensued. Zimmerman is the aggressor by following Martin. Again, if you were walking home through your neighborhood and some random dude is following you would you not feel threatened?

 

[dillo]

If Zimmerman is the aggressor then he simply could not have acted in self defense.

Spin? What spin? He saw a "suspicious" person, called 9/11 while following him, and then a confrontation ensued. Zimmerman is the aggressor by following Martin. Again, if you were walking home through your neighborhood and some random dude is following you would you not feel threatened?

following someone is agression?

 

[TexanRudeBoy]

following someone is agression?

Again, if you were walking through your neighborhood and some stranger is following you around, talking on his phone, would you not feel threatened? I don't know what kind of neighborhood you grew up in, but being followed by someone certainly wouldn't sit well with me where I grew up.

All this talk about Zimmerman having the right to defend his neighborhood from someone he felt looked suspicious, what about Martin's right to defend himself from someone he felt looked suspicious?

 

[silverhandorder]

Again, if you were walking through your neighborhood and some stranger is following you around, talking on his phone, would you not feel threatened? I don't know what kind of neighborhood you grew up in, but being followed by someone certainly wouldn't sit well with me where I grew up.

All this talk about Zimmerman having the right to defend his neighborhood from someone he felt looked suspicious, what about Martin's right to defend himself from someone he felt looked suspicious?

It ends at him assaulting Zimmerman.

 

[Don Lapre]

When a sensitive and polarizing issue like this one comes around, it's always wonderful to take as step back and listen to the takes from a genius.



It's a disgrace that man (Zimmerman) hasn't been dragged out of his house and tied to a car and taken away.
That's the only kind of retribution that people like that understand. It's a disgrace that man hasn't been shot yet.
Forget about him being arrested --the fact that he hasn't been shot yet is a disgrace.

- Mike Tyson


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...case-disgrace-george-zimmerman-221115400.html





LOL

 

[kahless]

Casting legitimate discussion and disagreement as "buying into the left agenda...to take more of our rights" is baseless hyperbole and accomplishes nothing.

Coming into a liberty forum and repeatedly stating that people have no right to confront someone in their neighborhood and that we should cede our right to defend our neighborhood to your beloved government is buying into the agenda of the left.

You even go as so far as to state you believe in the "non-aggression principle" but then say you will use violence against anyone that simply follows or confronts you.

Your responses to anyone that points out your hypocrisy is that they are using baseless hyperbole. If you are not buying into the agenda of the left then it sounds like you are here to start a flame war.

 

[No Free Beer]

A lot of the younger generation (myself included) have already awaken to the bullshit of the MSM.

All they are trying to do is divide and conquer.

Just look at what is on the immature, teen-friendly site of Ebaumsworld:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82443022/

It's the older people. They fall for this shit.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Trayvon's mom says 'shooting was accident,' Zimmerman to face judge
9:08 a.m. EST, April 12, 2012|By Arelis R. Hernández, Orlando Sentinel

George Zimmerman woke up in a Seminole County jail cell this morning as the mother of Trayvon Martin, the teen he killed, revealed on national television that she thinks the shooting was an accident.


Zimmerman is set to go before Judge Mark Herr at 1:30 p.m. today on a charge of second-degree murder.


Asked what she would like to ask to Zimmerman, Trayvon's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said on The Today Show that she wants an apology from him.

"I believe it was an accident. I believe it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back," Fulton said, revealing her opinion about what happened the night her 17-year-old son was shot to death. "I would ask him, did he know that that was a minor, that that was a teenager and that he did not have a weapon."


Fulton said even if Zimmerman is found not guilty, the arrest achieves the goal of their campaign to raise awareness and bring him to justice.


"We just want him to be held accountable for what he done," Fulton said. "We are happy that he was arrested so that he can give his side of the story."


The case has been assigned to Circuit Court Judge Jessica Recksiedler.


Zimmerman was charged following an investigation by special prosecutor Angela Corey, who was asked by Gov. Rick Scott to take over the case.
The decision was met with relief from Trayvon's parents, attorneys and supporters nationwide. In Sanford, where the teen was killed, residents celebrated and clamored that justice was on its way.


Meanwhile, Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara said his client was tired after several weeks of difficulty.


"He wants to be out to help with his defense, but he's doing OK," O'Mara told the NBC morning show.


Fulton, alongside Trayvon's father and their attorney, said she sympathizes with Zimmerman's family but asked for their consideration.


"I understand that his family is hurting but think about our family, we lost our teenage son," she told Today Show anchor Ann Curry. "His parents can pick up the phone and call him, but we can't pick up the phone and call Trayvon any more."

[email protected] or 407-420-5471 or @ahernandez_OS
Follow the case on Twitter at @OSTrayvonMartin

 

[AuH20]

Again, if you were walking through your neighborhood and some stranger is following you around, talking on his phone, would you not feel threatened? I don't know what kind of neighborhood you grew up in, but being followed by someone certainly wouldn't sit well with me where I grew up.

All this talk about Zimmerman having the right to defend his neighborhood from someone he felt looked suspicious, what about Martin's right to defend himself from someone he felt looked suspicious?

Zimmerman isn't Kevin Nash. He's relatively tiny. Far from imposing. Secondly, he probably had his weapon concealed since you can purchase an assortment of clothing for CCW permit holders.

 

[CaptUSA]

176 pages of this thread... Wow.

The power of the media is awesome.

I'm not trying to dismiss the implications of this case, or minimize the loss of this young man, but the media has truly succeeded in using another event to divide individuals into sides in order to get them to ignore the big picture. That it even happens on RPF is a testament to their power.

Their playbook seems to go like this:
1. Things are getting too serious, the public is starting to question authority.
2. Find an event. (any event, it doesn't really matter)
3. Set up reaonable and plausible arguments on both sides.
4. Spend as much time as possible debating this issue. Arguing why team A is right and team B is wrong.
5. Get the public wrapped up in the controversy we've created.
6. Slowly drip new information to keep the story going as long as possible.
7. Find any emotional triggers you can and pull each one.
8. When the distraction dies down, find a new event and repeat.

 

[hazek]

176 pages of this thread... Wow.

Their playbook seems to go like this:
1. Things are getting too serious, the public is starting to question authority.
2. Find an event. (any event, it doesn't really matter)
3. Set up reaonable and plausible arguments on both sides.
4. Spend as much time as possible debating this issue. Arguing why team A is right and team B is wrong.
5. Get the public wrapped up in the controversy we've created.
6. Slowly drip new information to keep the story going as long as possible.
7. Find any emotional triggers you can and pull each one.
8. When the distraction dies down, find a new event and repeat.

And it works like taking candy from a baby. The corporate media propaganda machine is our biggest enemy and until it is dealt with nothing will change, ever. But noooo some still can't learn this simple lesson in spite a huge mountain of evidence and history lessons.

 

[cajuncocoa]

176 pages of this thread... Wow.

The power of the media is awesome.

I'm not trying to dismiss the implications of this case, or minimize the loss of this young man, but the media has truly succeeded in using another event to divide individuals into sides in order to get them to ignore the big picture. That it even happens on RPF is a testament to their power.

Their playbook seems to go like this:
1. Things are getting too serious, the public is starting to question authority.
2. Find an event. (any event, it doesn't really matter)
3. Set up reaonable and plausible arguments on both sides.
4. Spend as much time as possible debating this issue. Arguing why team A is right and team B is wrong.
5. Get the public wrapped up in the controversy we've created.
6. Slowly drip new information to keep the story going as long as possible.
7. Find any emotional triggers you can and pull each one.
8. When the distraction dies down, find a new event and repeat.

And it works like taking candy from a baby. The corporate media propaganda machine is our biggest enemy and until it is dealt with nothing will change, ever. But noooo some still can't learn this simple lesson in spite a huge mountain of evidence and history lessons.

Agreed to both...it's almost impossible to resist, even among those of us who (are supposed to) know better. Look at how successful they've been at polarizing the people on this board.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Seemingly off-topic, but related (IMO): Now we have a DNC adviser, Hilary Rosen, pitting working Moms against stay-at-home Moms by taking a swipe at Mitt Romney's wife. Always polarizing, anything to keep from discussing real issues I guess.

 

[AuH20]

I think the most shocking revelations about this internal dialogue is:

(1) You have people here insisting that you obey and grovel to some 911 dispatcher in some faraway call center, totally removed from the dynamic situation.

(2) Patrolling your community or interacting with strangers in a calm, reasoned fashion somehow violates the sacred non-agression principle, even if you don't touch them.

 

[jmdrake]

I think the most shocking revelations about this internal dialogue is:

(1) You have people here insisting that you obey and grovel to some 911 dispatcher in some faraway call center, totally removed from the dynamic situation.

(2) Patrolling your community or interacting with strangers in a calm, reasoned fashion somehow violates the sacred non-agression principle, even if you don't touch them.

Well to me the most shocking thing is:

1) You've got people who think that Zimmerman even being charged with anything is equivalent to a "lynching".

2) You've got people only looking at Zimmerman's right to self defense and ignoring that based on this inconclusive evidence it could have been the other way.

3) We've got people assuming that Zimmerman, who has a record of being a hothead, must have been "calm and reasoned". (Not talking about you, just adopting your language).

I agree with Trayvon's mom that this might have been an accident. I agree with you that the appropriate charge is probably manslaughter. I agree with everyone who says that both Zimmerman and Trayvon could have handled things differently. Again, even assuming if everything Zimmerman did was legal, and I'm not sure that's the case, it was certainly stupid. An innocent third party could have gotten shot by a stray bullet, and for what? I saw the video of the 13 y/o witness who wondered aloud if his dog hadn't gotten off the leash and he had gone over the the scuffle would Trayvon still be alive. Maybe. Or maybe the 13 y/o kid would have been dead. I'm not sure why we're being presented with this false choice between patrolling your neighborhood in "gunsmoke" fashion, and patrolling your neighborhood in a way that makes everybody safe. Even police are taught to wait for backup if they can when approaching a potentially dangerous suspect. And waiting for backup doesn't have to mean waiting for the police. Why didn't Zimmerman have someone else working with him on patrol? We can't bring Trayvon back. And the damage to community relations will require time to heal. But if folks can get out of "defend my side at all costs" mode there could be a rational discussion about better ways to do what Zimmerman was apparently trying to do.

 

[TexanRudeBoy]

Zimmerman isn't Kevin Nash. He's relatively tiny. Far from imposing. Secondly, he probably had his weapon concealed since you can purchase an assortment of clothing for CCW permit holders.

And Martin is a rail of a child, its irrelevant. What does having his weapon concealed have to do with anything, I never said he was brandishing a gun.

 

[TexanRudeBoy]

It ends at him assaulting Zimmerman.

This is what we don't know... what happened between Zimmerman hanging up with 9/11 and the fight/shooting.

 

[robmpreston]

(2) Patrolling your community or interacting with strangers in a calm, reasoned fashion somehow violates the sacred non-agression principle, even if you don't touch them.

Where do you draw this conclusion from? He didn't sound calm on the 911 call, and his prior history doesn't show him as a calm individual. Twist the facts much?