**Official** Trayvon Martin thread

[Anti Federalist]

Sure it can.

You just don't have legal justification to use deadly force anymore.

Wait a minute, it's illegal to follow someone you think is suspicious because the police tell you it's "unnecessary"? I'm not buying that on several levels.

And if Zimmerman's account of the incident is true, why doesn't he have the right to meet deadly force with deadly force? Of course, my belief is that ANY physical assault can justifiably be met with lethal self-defense, but even if you believe the response should be proportional, are you telling me that getting punched in the face and then having your head repeatedly slammed into the pavement isn't a potentially lethal attack? When people have their head slammed into the pavement, they can suffer serious concussions and even death. In the realm of hand-to-hand combat, that's the most serious kind of attack short of trying to snap someone's neck or something. And if someone is already punching you in the face and slamming your head in the pavement, what would make you presume they weren't going to continue the attack? The idea that Travyon Martin's assault (if Zimmerman's account is true) isn't ALSO lethal is RIDICULOUS -- of course it was! If you get your head slammed into pavement hard enough you have a decent chance of dying, just as you do if someone shoots you in the torso.

Another thing that is RIDICULOUS about this case -- that the "stand your ground" law is getting drawn into criticism here. Because again, if Zimmerman's account is true, he was PINNED TO THE GROUND getting beaten up, so the issue of the Stand Your Ground law absolving him of a "duty to retreat" is totally irrelevant because retreat was not an option! The only relevance is in his initial confronting of Travyon, but there's nothing illegal about confronting someone in a public space!

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Lead investigator wanted George Zimmerman arrested

This story came out yesterday. There have been questions about why Zimmerman was not arrested by the Police, and it appears that the DA didn't think they had a case.

(CBS) SANFORD, Fla. - The lead investigator probing the deadly shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin wanted neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman arrested and charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, ABC News reports.

Investigator Chris Serino of the Sanford, Fla. Police Department wanted the 28-year-old Zimmerman behind bars, but the state Attorney's Office said there was not enough evidence to lead to a conviction, sources told ABC.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...man-arrested-the-night-of-the-fatal-shooting/

The following is probably also relevant when it comes to how the Police handled the investigation:

Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, even though he had requested medical attention first.

The police report noted Zimmerman was "bleeding from the nose and the back of the head."

CBS News reports that the next day, detectives re-enacted the shooting with Zimmerman at the scene.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

This has been my issue the entire time I have read about the case.

I am not arguing that Zimmerman is guilty, or innocent by self defense.

I am arguing that a Jury needs to hear and decide the facts of the case.

 

[oyarde]

This has been my issue the entire time I have read about the case.

I am not arguing that Zimmerman is guilty, or innocent by self defense.

I am arguing that a Jury needs to hear and decide the facts of the case.

I can see that point , but if I was the DA , I would probably done what the same , he has no real evidence and the witness & physical evidence support the survivors story.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

I can see that point , but if I was the DA , I would probably done what the same , he has no real evidence and the witness & physical evidence support the survivors story.

No witness saw the initial contact between Martin and Zimmerman.

 

[farreri]

 

[oyarde]

No witness saw the initial contact between Martin and Zimmerman.

And that is why we will never know .

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I can see that point , but if I was the DA , I would probably done what the same , he has no real evidence and the witness & physical evidence support the survivors story.

The DAs Office probably did what they do a thousand times a day and made a call on a case. The only thing that makes this different is the charlatans, exploiters and media frenzy surrounding it.

Doctors take patients off of life support and feeding tubes every day, but not every case turns into a Terri Schiavo style circus.

 

[kahless]

I think the bottom line is that Zimmerman had every opportunity to NOT ENGAGE. He was even TOLD TO NOT ENGAGE by the 9/11 dispatcher.

Zimmerman via manslaughter at the very least.

I could not find that in the transcript. All I see is 911 saying, "We don’t need you to do that." Which is not the same as "do not do that" or "do not get out of your car".

So if I question someone in my neighborhood and they do not like it they are allowed to get on top of me and beat me to a point of breaking my nose and cracking my head open. Then I should just let them take my life since I was wrong in questioning them?

You could die from a blow to the head and if you are getting beaten where your life is in danger you should be allowed to defend yourself.

If I go by some of the posts here I should have been able to kill a neighbor that followed me to my house recently and questioned me. If I attacked him for doing so and he feared for his life he would have had every right to protect his life.

 

[phill4paul]

This has been my issue the entire time I have read about the case.

I am not arguing that Zimmerman is guilty, or innocent by self defense.

I am arguing that a Jury needs to hear and decide the facts of the case.

This is pretty much my view. This investigation was screwed up from the start. From an officer leading a witness to a narcotics detective interviewing Zimmerman rather that the homicide detective. Malfeasance all around.

 

[eduardo89]

I don't know what to think about all this, honestly don't care. I just hope Zimmerman (D-FL) gets a fair trial and that these threads all die.

 

[kylejack]

just your average american teenager.

Not him. He's lighter skinned.

 

[oyarde]

The DAs Office probably did what they do a thousand times a day and made a call on a case. The only thing that makes this different is the charlatans, exploiters and media frenzy surrounding it.

Doctors take patients off of life support and feeding tubes every day, but not every case turns into a Terri Schiavo style circus.

Yep

 

[farreri]

I could not find that in the transcript. All I see is 911 saying, "We don’t need you to do that." Which is not the same as "do not do that" or "do not get out of your car".

Trying to get off on a technicality? Zimmerman FAILED the 9/11 dispatchers recommendation to STAND DOWN. He called for police, they were on their way.

So if I question someone in my neighborhood and they do not like it they are allowed to get on top of me and beat me to a point of breaking my nose and cracking my head open.

Zimmerman HAD A GUN. He obviously felt empowered by HAVING A GUN by approaching Trayvon AFTER he called police saying he looked like he was "on drugs" and up to no good.

Is that what you would have done if you had a gun, approach the person you just called police on for looking like they were on drugs and up to no good?

Then I should just let them take my life since I was wrong in questioning them?

You are assuming Zimmerman's version, the guy with a criminal record, was true and Trayvon was going to take his life.

You could die from a blow to the head and if you are getting beaten where your life is in danger you should be allowed to defend yourself.

Who had a gun, a criminal record, and who approached who?

 

[armstrong]

Once more, we don't have all of the evidence... it's easy to play armchair quarterback when all you know is what the corporate media is telling you. This is why I am not voicing my opinion in these Trayvon threads.


This !!!!!!!!!!

 

[farreri]

Trayvon would still be alive if Zimmerman didn't go out WITH A GUN and try to play Sheriff.

Watchmen don't go out and confront people while carrying a gun.

 

[kahless]

The DAs Office probably did what they do a thousand times a day and made a call on a case. The only thing that makes this different is the charlatans, exploiters and media frenzy surrounding it.

Doctors take patients off of life support and feeding tubes every day, but not every case turns into a Terri Schiavo style circus.

I do not have all the facts but perhaps they did make the right call based on the witnesses and evidence or lack there of which is maybe the reason why the "left" and the media picked this case to run with.

I think they picked this case over all others since they can make it last through the election cycle and make the Presidential campaign all about race again to ensure an Obama victory.

They will use this opportunity to pass more gun control laws, limit the ability of neighborhood watch organizations, add anti-stalking laws making it impossible for private security firms and communities to provide their own security without local law enforcement. In addition of course additional laws to favor minority groups.

Liberty folks should be worried over how they are going to exploit this case since they are going to use it to deny your right to defend yourself when the economic collapse comes. It is a power grab to take your guns and to consolidate power with government law enforcement away from individuals and private organizations.

 

[palm]

This isn't about race.

 

[moo]

Well it seems like someone at that police dept knows how to do their job. I was beginning to think EVERYONE would end up losing their jobs.

 

[farreri]

Neighbors: Zimmerman said look out for "young black men who appear to be outsiders"

Neighborhood watch

Some residents of his gated townhouse community declared that Zimmerman was known for being strict and that he went door to door asking them to be on the lookout for "young black men who appear to be outsiders", while others regarded him as normal, helpful and passionate about neighborhood security, having supposedly thwarted a previous burglary attempt.[31] The community reportedly experienced numerous instances of burglary, theft, and one shooting during the previous year, with 402 calls made to the police."[31] According to the Miami Herald, Zimmerman had placed 46 of those calls since the beginning of 2011, "to report disturbances, break-ins, windows left open and other incidents; nine of those times, he saw someone or something suspicious".[31] The Herald described Zimmerman as "mild-mannered", but "fixated on crime and focused on young, black males."[31]

Sanford police chief Bill Lee stated, "Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred."[44]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trayvon_Martin#Neighborhood_watch

Oh and look...

Against the Sanford police
Previous incidents with racial issues

News reports noted that the police department of the city of Sanford has faced previous allegations of racial prejudice.[90] In 2011, chief of police Brian Tooley was forced from office after declining to prosecute a police lieutenant's son for beating up a homeless black man, in an incident caught on video. After the footage went viral on YouTube, the perpetrator, Justin Collison, was arrested.[90][91][92] The officer in charge of that case was also in charge of the Trayvon Martin shooting scene.[45] In 2005, two parking lot security guards, one the son of a Sanford police department veteran and the other a volunteer for the department, shot a black teen, Travares McGill, in the back, killing him. The guards asserted self-defense, and the case was dismissed in court.[90][93]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trayvon_Martin#Previous_incidents_with_racial_issues

Don't forget, Trayvon was MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS that night.


[Edit]Zimmerman's criminal past...

George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin’s killer, had prior brushes with the law
– Thu, Mar 22, 2012

A woman accused the man who fatally shot Trayvon Martin of domestic violence, it emerged Wednesday, as a fuller picture of George Zimmerman began to take shape.

In 2005, a woman filed a petition for an injunction against Zimmerman, claiming that he came to her house and became violent when she told him to leave, the Orlando Sentinel reports. Zimmerman, 21 at the time, filed a petition of his own in response.

Just a month before that, the paper reports, Zimmerman was at a bar near the University of Central Florida when a friend was arrested on suspicion of serving minors. Zimmerman became profane and pushed a law enforcement agent who tried to escort him away. He was arrested after a short struggle. That arrest had been reported previously.

In both cases, injunctions have kept the cases' outcomes sealed.

Zimmerman, 28, was born in Virginia, aspired to be a law enforcement officer, and moved with his family to Florida about a decade ago. Though he appears not to have been an official member of the national Neighborhood Watch program, he was zealous -- perhaps over-zealous -- about patrolling his Sanford community, neighbors say.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...artin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.html