**Official** Trayvon Martin thread

[dannno]

From the article someone posted a scant two pages ago.

Those of you saying "witnesses saw Martin start it!" and saying he insulted Zimmerman and threw the first punch... don't seem to have a whole lot to back that up.

Ya I admit there's only one side to the story, but the question is why wasn't this information released earlier so that people could at least give him the benefit of the doubt that it might not have been just about killing a black kid? Probably because the media is trying to turn this into a huge racial dividing issue.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Assuming he isn't lying, what would you have done? I think I would have shot him in the leg or something. You can die from a beating to the head, so a court may find him in the right.

I probably would have shot him too.

That's not germane at all to what I am trying to make clear here.

Having a CCW does not make you a cop.

You do not have legal justification to use deadly force if you follow someone, even if they did commit a felony and it results in fight.

Unless someone can show that Martin attacked Zimmerman with no provocation or prior contact, then he remains unjustified, legally.

 

[specsaregood]

Assuming he isn't lying, what would you have done?

If I had just killed somebody, I'd make sure to spin or lie in my story as to lessen my chances of going to prison. that is what I would do. dead men tell no tales to contradict you.

 

[azxd]

Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...t-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch



Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html



Florida law also provides that the use of deadly force is not justified if the defendant is charged with an independent forcible felony, and the defendant was attempting to commit a felony or the defendant initially provoked the use of force against himself.

http://www.criminaldefenseattorneytampa.com/FloridaDefenses/DeadlyForceSelfDefense.aspx



You are not legally justified in chasing after somebody, even if they DID commit a violent felony.

If you do and a fight breaks out after the fact, you will NOT have legal justification for shooting.

Period.

And "not talking to cops" is totally consistent with my message.

I'm trying to keep patriots out of prison.

Yet you are ready to convict this man ... YES ?

 

[Anti Federalist]

the strongest anti-authority poster on the board advocating that Zimmerman cower in obedience when commanded by a telephone operator

I should have stayed out of the whole damn thing from the get go, like I wanted to.

I will repeat once again, once the 911 dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that" he lost his legal justification under CCW, Deadly Force and Stand Your Ground laws.

I am not commenting on whether the law or his actions are correct, just or valid.

I am stating what the law is, and, as I have said a million times before, like I consistently say about talking to cops, I am trying to keep people out of jail.

We have many CCW holders on this board, and if it gets into their heads that this was justified, it could be disastrous.

 

[RonPaulMall]

You do not have legal justification to use deadly force if you follow someone, even if they did commit a felony and it results in fight.

In Florida, you absolutely do if they attack you and you were doing nothing unlawful. I think you are confusing the fact pattern in this case with something it is not. If Martin had robbed Zimmerman, and Zimmerman then followed him and shot him, he'd have committed a crime under Florida law. That is NOT what is alleged. Martin didn't commit a crime at all so far as we know. Zimmerman was not chasing a criminal, he was following somebody he thought suspicious with the intention of asking what he was about (something he's perfectly entitled to do). If you approach someone in a lawful manner, speak to them, and they respond by attacking you, you absolutely have the right to respond with deadly force under Florida law if you believe they pose a threat of great bodily harm.

The only way Zimmerman could be charged with a crime is if he attacked Martin. Or if he threatened to attack Martin or otherwise committed some sort of assault. There is no evidence to support such a contention as of now, and that is why there has been no arrest.

 

[azxd]

I probably would have shot him too.

That's not germane at all to what I am trying to make clear here.

Having a CCW does not make you a cop.

You do not have legal justification to use deadly force if you follow someone, even if they did commit a felony and it results in fight.

Unless someone can show that Martin attacked Zimmerman with no provocation or prior contact, then he remains unjustified, legally.

Who called Zimmerman a wanna be cop ?

Perhaps the same people who would take your CCW, or perhaps just those who think this is murder and not defense ... Yet will not wait for a trial.

 

[MikeStanart]

Keep in mind... this is exactly what the establishment wants... they want to divide us and trigger a race war.

THIS. THIS... THIS!

I'm so sick of hearing about this. Man A shot Man B. Enough Said. Whether it was justified or not, a jury will decide. I could care less about races;

the only people who do are the Racists.

 

[azxd]

If I had just killed somebody, I'd make sure to spin or lie in my story as to lessen my chances of going to prison. that is what I would do. dead men tell no tales to contradict you.

Totally believable that you would state such a thing on a public forum

 

[Anti Federalist]

Yet you are ready to convict this man ... YES ?

I'm not ready to do a damn thing, other than to make it clear to people what the law is.

I should have stayed out of the whole thing from the get go, like I wanted to.

We have a lot of CCW people here on the board, including myself.

I do not want to see people go to prison for following bad legal theory.

Right now, I am making no judgement on the merit, validity or morality of the law.

 

[dannno]

If I had just killed somebody, I'd make sure to spin or lie in my story as to lessen my chances of going to prison. that is what I would do. dead men tell no tales to contradict you.

Also true, but so far none of his stories have contradicted witnesses.

 

[azxd]

THIS. THIS... THIS!

I'm so sick of hearing about this. Man A shot Man B. Enough Said. Whether it was justified or not, a jury will decide. I could care less about races;

the only people who do are the Racists.

Thank You !!!

 

[Anti Federalist]

Who called Zimmerman a wanna be cop ?

Perhaps the same people who would take your CCW, or perhaps just those who think this is murder and not defense ... Yet will not wait for a trial.

I did.

Based on what's been presented, that is exactly what he was acting like.

And CCW, DF and SYG law in Florida specifically warns that you are NOT a "free lance" cop by virtue of having a CCW and you will not have the legal justification to use deadly force if you provoke or chase after somebody.

I do not know how much more clear I can make this.

 

[specsaregood]

Totally believable that you would state such a thing on a public forum

Pfft, I wont be going around playing cop chasing unarmed kids that have done me no harm then killing them; so I'm not worried about it.

 

[azxd]

I'm not ready to do a damn thing, other than to make it clear to people what the law is.

I should have stayed out of the whole thing from the get go, like I wanted to.

We have a lot of CCW people here on the board, including myself.

I do not want to see people go to prison for following bad legal theory.

Right now, I am making no judgement on the merit, validity or morality of the law.

Perhaps you should have.

As for people with a CCW, if they are going to rely on other peoples interpretation of laws that probably don't apply to them because of geographic location ... That's their problem.

If you wanna do this right, become State certified to conduct CCW classes, and charge less than everyone else in your area, so you can maximize your contact with those you wish to help.

Your current approach is not much different than what a prison lawyer might use.

Can you legally shoot someone in the back, and have it be a defensive act, and if so, in which States has this been proven in a court of law ?
If you can't answer this, stop giving advise about the law, because what works in your State probably doesn't work in all States ... Just sayin !!

 

[azxd]

Who called Zimmerman a wanna be cop ?

Perhaps the same people who would take your CCW, or perhaps just those who think this is murder and not defense ... Yet will not wait for a trial.

I did.

Based on what's been presented, that is exactly what he was acting like.

And CCW, DF and SYG law in Florida specifically warns that you are NOT a "free lance" cop by virtue of having a CCW and you will not have the legal justification to use deadly force if you provoke or chase after somebody.

I do not know how much more clear I can make this.

So your interpretation of how someone acted, based on speculation and scant slow to be revealed evidence is enough ... OK !!!

 

[azxd]

Pfft, I wont be going around playing cop chasing unarmed kids that have done me no harm then killing them; so I'm not worried about it.

How is anyone to know this to be true ?
You've just admitted that if you killed someone you would lie about it ... Seems pretty simple to me.

You have admitted that you will lie to gain advantage in a bad situation.

 

[specsaregood]

How is anyone to know this to be true ?
You've just admitted that if you killed someone you would lie about it ... Seems pretty simple to me.
You have admitted that you will lie to gain advantage in a bad situation.

Sure, I stated what everybody already knows. As far as knowing it to be true? Because I won't be found in such a situation. herpderp

in reality, I wouldn't say a fucking word to the cops. doesn't matter if you lie or tell the truth, they still have to prove it.

 

[MelissaWV]

So I guess, to recap and summarize...

"Trayvon suspended from school for 10 days just before killed & may have been gang member"

He was suspended for having an empty baggie that supposedly used to contain marijuana. His FB posts seem to indicate he MIGHT have been involved with pot. I am sure those of you on the forum with me would absolutely think this a shocking and criminal charge. Again, the baggie was even empty. Wow. What a gangsta.

He "may have been a gang member"? I still have not heard anyone explain this one. I heard one person try to tell me he was flashing gang signs in the pic where he's shirtless. I had to break it to them that the particular sign he is flashing is not really exclusive to any particular gang.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Perhaps you should have.

As for people with a CCW, if they are going to rely on other peoples interpretation of laws that probably don't apply to them because of geographic location ... That's their problem.

If you wanna do this right, become State certified to conduct CCW classes, and charge less than everyone else in your area, so you can maximize your contact with those you wish to help.

Your current approach is not much different than what a prison lawyer might use.

Can you legally shoot someone in the back, and have it be a defensive act, and if so, in which States has this been proven in a court of law ?
If you can't answer this, stop giving advise about the law, because what works in your State probably doesn't work in all States ... Just sayin !!

I have quoted current FLORIDA law.

Unless you have something new, the shooter remains unjustified from a legal standpoint.

As for all the snark, I can't be CCW instructor because NH does not require a class for CCW.