**Official** Trayvon Martin thread

I am so jaded by the media that I would not be surprised if this was all made up.

At the very least it is over-hyped propaganda.

That is all I have to say about this latest fake news. I turn the channel each time I hear anything about this case. I will be able to enjoy a life without knowing anything of what happened in this hyped case.
 
That is a big IF and certainly no one saw the shot and we all wish someone did so we would have a better idea of what went down during the whole confrontation.

There are at least two witnesses in the police reports who state they saw Zimmerman getting up from the ground after the shot was fired and walking away from Martin.

Yeah. If Zimmerman rolled Trayvon over he would still be on the ground on top of Trayvon. So it's entirely possible that he managed to get Trayvon off of him, then he shot Trayvon, then he got up. Expect there to be some sort of fancy schmancy "computer generated re-enactment" from both sides.
 
Yeah. If Zimmerman rolled Trayvon over he would still be on the ground on top of Trayvon. So it's entirely possible that he managed to get Trayvon off of him, then he shot Trayvon, then he got up. Expect there to be some sort of fancy schmancy "computer generated re-enactment" from both sides.

Certainly a lot of things are possible, and a lot of things are speculation. We have forensic evidence, a dead man's version no one will hear, the shooter's version which is almost certain to be skewed towards his defense, and no one else who saw the initial confrontation or the shooting itself.
 
Huh? Zimmerman said his gun was in his waist. So how would that make Trayvon "ass backwards"? If Trayvon was turned around he'd have been sitting on Zimmerman's face instead of Zimmerman's waist.

Knees on legs butt on waist. I think HB could pull that off and still face forward and mash someone's head against the pavement.
 
Knees on legs butt on waist. I think HB could pull that off and still face forward and mash someone's head against the pavement.

A) Who is HB?

B) What does any of that have to do with my question of how did Zimmerman get to his gun without getting TM off of him first?
 
A) Who is HB?

B) What does any of that have to do with my question of how did Zimmerman get to his gun without getting TM off of him first?

He could have struggled loose just enough to get his gun out.

What does his statement say about it?
 
He could have struggled loose just enough to get his gun out.

I've run this through 1,000 times or more in my head. I don't see how that's possible. Getting Trayvon dislodged enough to go for your gun = getting Trayvon dislodged enough to get him off you, especially if you outweigh Trayvon and you're in pretty good shape. Again, we'll likely see computer generated video of this. If I was an attorney on the case with endless cash to spare I might even (Zimmerman has 200K now raised from the web), I'd hire some MMA types to simulate this for the jury.

What does his statement say about it?

I haven't seen the whole statement, just bits and pieces. I did find something interesting though.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/18...-things-you-should-know/?iid=sl-main-mostpop2

Trayvon Martin may have been running from Zimmerman at first.

The Seminole County Sheriff’s Department’s Computer Aided Dispatch shows that Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person, then told them the subject was running from him. The exchange between the dispatcher and Zimmerman shows that he was advised not to continue to follow Martin. One witness interviewed said she saw one of the subjects chasing the other, but could not see who was who. A recording of a female identified as Martin’s longtime friend who was on the phone with him just before the shooting said he began to run when he realized Zimmerman was following him.





• One witness said the fight had ended by the time the shot rang out.

A woman that police interviewed said she could not distinguish who was on top of whom, but after the gunshot one person was holding the other on the ground by pressing on his back. But her friend, who assisted in translating for the eyewitness, was “adamant” that there was no physical fighting taking place when the shot rang out. Both were taken to the police department for more questioning.


And yes, some of the new evidence is helpful to Zimmerman's side of the story as well.
 
It was both of their neighborhoods- both lived in the area.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...tes-struggle/2012/05/17/gIQAxw6HXU_story.html


Consider if you were Treyvon. Walking home from the corner store in the rain. You see somebody staring at you and talking on the phone- possibly about you. You stare back. Then you get nervous and take off. He runs after you (as was documented on the 9/11 tape). Would you think that the other guy was acting in self defense?
I guess you are not allowed to take a stroll through your own neighborhood after dark.

Self defense depends on your being threatened. If one person is persuing the other with no cause given, who was the agressor and who was most likely trying to defend themselves? If they are coming towards you in a threatening manner, it is defense. If you are going after them, it is not.

Where in the world did you come up with that? THere is no evidence that Martin started running away and Zimmerman chased him.The entire narrative that Zimmeroman persued Martin is ALL an assumption. ALL of it. There's no evidence to prove that Zimmerman kept following Martin. NONE
 
We are lacking physical evidence for a gap in time- that is the time between when Zimmerman was talking to the police and Trayvon was seen on top of Zimmerman with one of them screaming until a gunshot goes off. We know that Trayvon was shot in his left side at very close proximity and that Zimmerman had some minor injuries. What we do not know is who started the confrontation at that point. If Zimmerman had not persued Treyvon and waited for the police, it definately would not have occured at all. Instead he went after him. If Zimmerman did not want a confrontation and felt threatened enough to plead self defense, he should have waited for the police.
You keep saying that and there's NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that Zimmerman kept following Martin. What is it about thiat you don't understand?
 
Right. He obviously had his gun at some point. But from the description he gave of where he and Trayvon were positioned immediately prior to the shooting it's not obvious how he got to his gun without getting Trayvon off him first. And if he got Trayvon off of him before he shot him......

He didn't need to get him off first. He only needed to free the arm that was able to reach the gun.
 
It astounds me that so many people on this forum that supposedly are the types that advocate "personal responsibility," especially when it comes to owning a firearm, seem to hold no responsibility towards the vigilante packing heat out looking for "troublemakers" that winds up shooting a teen who's just on his way home, minding his own business, flirting with a girl on his cellphone.

Did Zimmerman ever alert that he was the neighborhood watch all the while he was following Trayvon with a concealed weapon? Wouldn't that have been the responsible thing to do, especially because he was packing heat, which increases the odds someone could get shot which, of course, is what tragically happened?

Do 'Stand Your Ground' laws not apply to unarmed citizens being harassed by people with concealed weapons?
 
Well well, the pattern of behavior continues...

Co-worker: Zimmerman bullied me with racist taunts

Friday, May 18, 2012 13:36 EDT

Provocative new evidence has been released by the prosecution in the investigation and upcoming trial of George Zimmerman, who shot teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida earlier this year. Think Progress is reporting that a co-worker of Zimmerman’s has testified to prosecutors that the former neighborhood watch captain bullied him at work and relentlessly taunted him with racist jokes.

The unnamed man was interviewed at the state attorney’s office, and testified that he worked with Zimmerman in 2008. Zimmerman had started working at the business shortly before he arrived, the witness said, and the problems between them started right away. For the amusement of co-workers, Zimmerman repeatedly teased the witness, who is Middle Eastern, about his race, calling him “Achmed the terrorist” and making other remarks connected to bombs, terrorism and murder, as well as repeatedly calling him a “fucking moron.”

“I tried to ignore it. It was like, middle school, high school humor, but he was going on and on and on for days and days,” the witness said during the 15-minute interview. He testified that Zimmerman singled him out because he was “an easy target” because of his race and because of Zimmerman’s eagerness to fit in with the other workers.

He presented into evidence a letter he wrote to the company’s human resources department informing them of Zimmerman’s conduct and asking them to address the issue. Zimmerman, however, was so persuasive and ingenuous in his testimony to the committee that he fooled not only the committee, but the witness said that even began to doubt himself. The inquiry was closed and the teasing and humiliation reportedly went on exactly as before.

The relentless harassment filled his life with stress and tension, the man said, making him miserable. He told investigators that he was so unhappy at work that he threw a party at home when Zimmerman was finally fired from the company over conflicts with management and other employees.

Listen to audio of the interview, embedded via Think Progress, below:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/18/co-worker-zimmerman-bullied-me-with-racist-taunts/

Here's a very important piece of evidence...
After a few months, Zimmerman was terminated. According to the witness, “he was fired for calling HR hotline so many times…he would complain about each and every manager and employee.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...d-him-at-work-targeted-him-with-racist-jokes/

Zimmerman also called 911 habitually...
Shooter of Trayvon Martin a habitual caller to cops
Posted on Wednesday, 03.21.12

At the focal point of a shooting scandal: a mild-mannered neighbor who fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.

Zimmerman called police 46 times since 2004 to report disturbances, break-ins, windows left open and other incidents. Nine of those times, he saw someone or something suspicious.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html

Let me know if I need to bring in a Psychologist to explain to you the type of person Zimmerman is and why it really shouldn't be any surprise a young black male died by his hands.
 
Sure. By all means. Bring in a psychologist. But what if he was the biggest asshole of the year? What would that have to do with the facts of the case?
 
It astounds me that so many people on this forum that supposedly are the types that advocate "personal responsibility," especially when it comes to owning a firearm, seem to hold no responsibility towards the vigilante packing heat out looking for "troublemakers" that winds up shooting a teen who's just on his way home, minding his own business, flirting with a girl on his cellphone.

Because we looked at the actual facts, not the media spin? This case is pretty simple. The Martin's were contacted by an Al Sharpton like "Civil Rights" Lawfirm notorious in that state for running shakedowns and not practicing anything resembling actual law. These lawyers then fed the media a story, almost entirely made up of lies and half truths, that stoked a bunch of race nonsense. A person was arrested and put in jail because of this. Most of the people on this site care passionately about liberty. We react negatively to injustice. George Zimmerman is a victim of the State. The prosecutor embodies everything that is evil and wrong with the US Justice system. It absolutely boggles my mind how any liberty minded person can't be outraged about this case.
 
... Zimmerman also called 911 habitually...
Shooter of Trayvon Martin a habitual caller to cops
Posted on Wednesday, 03.21.12

At the focal point of a shooting scandal: a mild-mannered neighbor who fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.

Zimmerman called police 46 times since 2004 to report disturbances, break-ins, windows left open and other incidents. Nine of those times, he saw someone or something suspicious.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/1...-habitual.html

...

Considering that calling the cops 46 time over a period of 8 years works out to and average of less than once every 2 months (46 time divided by 8 years equals 5.75 times per years) and plus the fact Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain the use of the word "habitually" is somewhat hyperbole.

I know of restaurants that call the cops more often for dine and dash diners.
 
Punched to Death

How easy is it to kill a man with your bare hands?

By Brian Palmer|Posted Friday, May 18, 2012, at 7:02 PM ET

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._life_how_deadly_is_an_unarmed_teenager_.html

A lab report released Thursday showed that Trayvon Martin was shot from close range, probably with the gun pressed against his chest. The new information may bolster George Zimmerman's argument that the two men were locked in combat, and Zimmerman shot the unarmed teenager to protect his own life. How easy is it to kill a man in a fistfight?

It happens more than twice a day, on average. Fists and feet were responsible for 745 murders in 2010, or 5.7 percent of all murders that year, according to FBI statistics. (The data on this have been remarkably stable in recent years. In the five preceding years, the percentage of murders perpetrated by fists or feet fluctuated between 5.6 and 6.1.) It doesn’t even take an experienced brawler to punch someone to death: An 11-year-old California girl appears to have killed a classmate with her bare hands in a February fistfight.

There are no official statistics on this, but most fistfight deaths are the result of massive internal bleeding from repeated blows, often after the victim has been knocked down or unconscious. Still, under certain circumstances it’s possible to kill a man with a single punch. In July, for example, a Florida man was arrested for killing someone with a haymaker in a Las Vegas casino.
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Boxers describing a classic knockout punch talk about snapping their opponent’s head back or turning it around. That’s because punching someone unconscious—or killing them—usually results from the rotational forces placed on the head, not from the direct impact of the fist itself. A hook to the side of the head, or an uppercut to the chin, can send the head spinning, which breaks blood vessels inside the skull. In these cases, victims may die of internal bleeding hours after the fight, with friends and emergency medical personnel never realizing what was going on.

Sometimes the rotational forces on the head leave the blood vessels intact but stress the neurons to the point that they cease to function normally, causing a loss of consciousness. The victim then smashes his head on the concrete, which causes bleeding or other catastrophic brain injury. This scenario played out in 2003, when a drunken bar fly in San Diego killed a former Marine with a sucker punch. (Zimmerman’s attorneys will likely emphasize the danger of pavement in a fistfight, as police photos show injuries to the back of his head.)

Biomechanics research shows why these one-punch deaths are rare events. Automotive and athletic safety experts use a measure called the Head Injury Criterion to determine the lethality of knocks to the head. A score of 1,000 indicates that the impact would cause a life-threatening injury to one in six people. Olympic boxers can only punch up to around 164 on the scale, according to a study from 2005. The element of surprise is a major factor. A person who knows he’s going to be punched braces himself and tenses his neck muscles, preventing rapid rotation. (That’s why boxers work hard to develop their neck strength.)

Body blows can also kill under some circumstances. A punch aimed directly at the heart, delivered at a particular moment in the heart’s beating sequence, can cause it to go into a deadly arrhythmia. The condition, known as commotio cordis, usually occurs during sporting events but has also been seen in fistfights.

Zimmerman would not need to demonstrate that his life was in danger in order to gain protection under Florida law. According to the state's “stand your ground” statute, a defendant doesn't need to be at risk of death, but rather at risk of “death or great bodily harm.” The legislature has not defined "great bodily harm," and Florida courts have said only that it “does not include mere bruises as are likely to be inflicted in a simple assault and battery.”
 
What I think is funny is this: Since I live in a neighborhood watch community, I told some of my friends about it when the story originally broke and they couldn't have cared less. Now that the MSM has latched on, all I hear from them is Trayvon this, Trayvon that. They don't even remember me talking about it before.

If the MSM had done the same thing with my dog's bowel movement, would we all be arguing about that right now?

Why didn't they make a big deal out of this? It's worse than the Zimmerman/Martin case. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/n...-by-white-plains-police-raises-questions.html

They say officers taunted Mr. Chamberlain. He shouted: “Semper fi,” the Marine Corps motto. The police answered with loud shouts of “Hoo-rah!” Another officer, the niece says, said he wanted to pee in Mr. Chamberlain’s bathroom.

Someone, the niece and neighbors say, yelled a racial epithet at the door. Black and white officers were present.
 
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Sure. By all means. Bring in a psychologist. But what if he was the biggest asshole of the year? What would that have to do with the facts of the case?

It's not about him being a mean person, but it's about demonstrating an established behavior pattern.
Zimmerman has shown himself to be a fairly paranoid and confrontational person. He has been known to start conflicts with people. It demonstrates that starting a confrontation with a young black man, was very in-character for him.
 
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