**Official** townhall debate thread - Mitt Romney vs. Barack Obama

[James Madison]

I'll be an alcoholic within the first 15 minutes!! LOL

The only way to watch the debate.

 

[hardrightedge]

I agree with Romney about almost nothing.

On the 'jobs' issue, he keeps touting his energy policy and how many jobs that will create. He buys into the BS about Keystone, which is a concerted effort to subvert the property rights of private citizens in favor a pet project.

In the general sense, more domestic drilling does not alter the price of gas, nor does it affect gas prices except to raise the floor on them. We are contributing higher cost oil to the mix of the world's supply.

How's that? Oil from shale (which is where a lot of our production increases are coming from) is a lower grade and is more expensive to extract and refine. The same is true of the Canadian tar sands oil.

Oil is an international commodity that is priced as such. It's supply vs demand. Any domestic additions to supply will not change the overall game. In fact, our higher lift costs keep prices from dropping as low as they might in times of any over-supply.

The only way we could be energy independent on the oil front would be to nationalize the industry. It's doubtful even that would result in lower prices due to our higher lift costs. Prices could well be higher at the pump, not lower.

Romney's understanding of this is a massive fail.

lol...ok...mitt romney doesn't understand supply and demand...get a grip

 

[AuH20]

Did anyone else's jaw drop when Obama point blank lied that global demand for oil is up??? Really??? Inventories are at decade highs. What he can't tell the American people is that our dollar is deemed less worthy by OPEC.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I am impress with you people who could stomach that nonsense. I only heard bits of it while I was eating dinner because someone was watching it in the next room. I should've thought to turn it into a drinking game. Always next time...

 

[jay_dub]

Did anyone else's jaw drop when Obama point blank lied that global demand for oil is up??? Really??? Inventories are at decade highs. What he can't tell the American people is that our dollar is deemed less worthy by OPEC.

It's not a jaw-dropping lie.

"Global oil consumption increased by 0.7 percent in 2011 to reach an all-time high of 88.03 million barrels per day.1 (See Figure 1.) This rate of increase was considerably slower than in 2010, when oil consumption rose by 3.3 percent following a decline of 1.3 percent in 2009 due to the global financial crisis.2 China’s oil consumption increased by 5.5 percent in 2011, and China accounted for about 85 percent of global net growth.3 An increase in oil consumption of 5.7 percent in the former Soviet Union contributed another 37 percent of net growth.4 But these increases were offset by declines in the United States and European Union, where oil consumption fell by 1.8 and 2.8 percent."

http://vitalsigns.worldwatch.org/vs-trend/growth-global-oil-market-slows

Estimates for growth are down, but the trend is still for more oil consumption.

"Estimates of global demand growth were revised down to 0.7 mb/d for 2012 (to 89.7 mb/d) but kept at 0.8 mb/d for 2013 (to 90.5 mb/d). The IMF’s downward revision to its forecast of economic growth – to 3.3% in 2012 and 3.6% in 2013 – had been anticipated and does not affect our forecast".

http://omrpublic.iea.org/

 

[James Madison]

I am impress with you people who could stomach that nonsense. I only heard bits of it while I was eating dinner because someone was watching it in the next room. I should've thought to turn it into a drinking game. Always next time...

Drinking game idea:

Drink every time the candidates mention their undying support for Israel.
Drink every time they mention an AIPAC talking point.
Drink every time they say Iran with a nuclear weapon is unacceptable.

You're welcome.

 

[wgadget]

Certainly not the guy who was never an executive and spent most of his entire political career before running for President as a state senator and senator pushing for much harsher gun control laws.

Good try though.

Mitt Romney was given a grade of D MINUS by the Gun Owners of America.

http://gunowners.org/mittromney-2012.htm

 

[DeMintConservative]

I agree with Romney about almost nothing.

On the 'jobs' issue, he keeps touting his energy policy and how many jobs that will create. He buys into the BS about Keystone, which is a concerted effort to subvert the property rights of private citizens in favor a pet project.

In the general sense, more domestic drilling does not alter the price of gas, nor does it affect gas prices except to raise the floor on them. We are contributing higher cost oil to the mix of the world's supply.

How's that? Oil from shale (which is where a lot of our production increases are coming from) is a lower grade and is more expensive to extract and refine. The same is true of the Canadian tar sands oil.

Oil is an international commodity that is priced as such. It's supply vs demand. Any domestic additions to supply will not change the overall game. In fact, our higher lift costs keep prices from dropping as low as they might in times of any over-supply.

The only way we could be energy independent on the oil front would be to nationalize the industry. It's doubtful even that would result in lower prices due to our higher lift costs. Prices could well be higher at the pump, not lower.

Romney's understanding of this is a massive fail.

That has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing.

The question was: do you agree with Romney when he says government doesn't create jobs, entrepreneurs - like he was - do if the government doesn't handicap them?

 

[wgadget]

How drunk are all you peeps who had a swig every time Romney said he "knows what it takes to create jobs"?

 

[wgadget]

That has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing.

The question was: do you agree with Romney when he says government doesn't create jobs, entrepreneurs - like he was - do if the government doesn't handicap them?

I LOLed when Romney said government doesn't create jobs after he'd been going on and on about how as PRESIDENT he'd create jobs.

LOL

What an asshat.

 

[jay_dub]

I LOLed when Romney said government doesn't create jobs after he'd been going on and on about how as PRESIDENT he'd create jobs.

LOL

What an asshat.

Thank you for verifying the obvious irony in that.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Mitt Romney was given a grade of D MINUS by the Gun Owners of America.

http://gunowners.org/mittromney-2012.htm

Of course Negotiate Rights Away supports him.

 

[DeMintConservative]

Mitt Romney was given a grade of D MINUS by the Gun Owners of America.

http://gunowners.org/mittromney-2012.htm

Romney as endorsed by the NRA:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...mney-calls-him-only-hope-for-firearms-freedom

The National Rifle Association (NRA) endorsed Mitt Romney for president late Thursday.

NRA Executive vice president Wayne LaPierre and NRA Political Victory Fund chairman Chris Cox will formally announce the endorsement at a Romney rally in Virginia later Thursday evening. Vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan will also be on hand.


“In this election, there is no debate,” LaPierre said in a statement. “There is only one choice – only one hope – to save our firearms freedom and our way of life.”

and the GOA:

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, acknowledged some hesitancy about Romney but said gun-rights activists were mollified by his selection of Ryan as a running mate.

"It created a lot more willingness to pull his lever, and at least some enthusiasm," Pratt said. "Ryan is at least one of us."

Romney is much better than Obama, an extreme and hardcore gun control militant, on the guns issues and it's not close.

Pretending otherwise is simply disingenuous.

 

[DeMintConservative]

LOL, "sympathy" for O-bomb-ya.

LOL, Ya got me, I'm a closet demmycrat all along. (and llepard doesn't understand economics)

Sheesh.

I don't vote for gun banners.

That's a line in the sand for me.

Sure, I was just explaining how Candyesque was your question.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Romney as endorsed by the NRA:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...mney-calls-him-only-hope-for-firearms-freedom

and the GOA:


Romney is much better than Obama, an extreme and hardcore gun control militant, on the guns issues and it's not close.

Pretending otherwise is simply disingenuous.

Agreed. Though, the LP and Constitution Party candidates are both better than Romney.

 

[Anti Federalist]

That has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing.

The question was: do you agree with Romney when he says government doesn't create jobs, entrepreneurs - like he was - do if the government doesn't handicap them?

I LOLed when Romney said government doesn't create jobs after he'd been going on and on about how as PRESIDENT he'd create jobs.

LOL

What an asshat.

You, gentle poster, just won the Internet.

 

[AuH20]

It's not a jaw-dropping lie.

"Global oil consumption increased by 0.7 percent in 2011 to reach an all-time high of 88.03 million barrels per day.1 (See Figure 1.) This rate of increase was considerably slower than in 2010, when oil consumption rose by 3.3 percent following a decline of 1.3 percent in 2009 due to the global financial crisis.2 China’s oil consumption increased by 5.5 percent in 2011, and China accounted for about 85 percent of global net growth.3 An increase in oil consumption of 5.7 percent in the former Soviet Union contributed another 37 percent of net growth.4 But these increases were offset by declines in the United States and European Union, where oil consumption fell by 1.8 and 2.8 percent."

http://vitalsigns.worldwatch.org/vs-trend/growth-global-oil-market-slows

Estimates for growth are down, but the trend is still for more oil consumption.

"Estimates of global demand growth were revised down to 0.7 mb/d for 2012 (to 89.7 mb/d) but kept at 0.8 mb/d for 2013 (to 90.5 mb/d). The IMF’s downward revision to its forecast of economic growth – to 3.3% in 2012 and 3.6% in 2013 – had been anticipated and does not affect our forecast".

http://omrpublic.iea.org/

Economies all over the world, perhaps with the exception of Brazil are contracting.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environmen...es-new-dynamic-too-much-oil-too-little-demand

Even China posted a drawdown in August as well as recently:
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121015-701399.html

The President is misleading the American people once again. He knows damn well that to fluff up the S&P 500 (for exports) as well as to stabilize (through currency swaps) the flailing Euro banking system he needs to keep the dollar weak.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Romney is much better than Obama, an extreme and hardcore gun control militant, on the guns issues and it's not close.

Pretending otherwise is simply disingenuous.

O-bomb-ya talks.

RMoney did.

He banned guns in Mass.

Period.

 

[juleswin]

That has nothing to do with the issue we were discussing.

The question was: do you agree with Romney when he says government doesn't create jobs, entrepreneurs - like he was - do if the government doesn't handicap them?

Just wait for his argument about how cutting defense spending to lead to the loss of jobs around the country. Govt doesn't create job unless we are talking about the MIC. At least Obombo is consistent with his ignorance of economics

 

[bunklocoempire]

You didn't get my point.

Another possible question would have been: which one of those men actually introduced, advocated and voted for endless gun control laws - not only bans but prohibition of interstate transportation of firearms, increasing taxes on sales, storefront sales requirements regulations, restricting gun purchases, banning the sale of firearms at gun shows, increasing licensing fees, etc.?


Knowing the asker personal hate for Romney and his simpathy for Obama, it was expected he'd try to suggest Romney's record on gun controls is worse than Obama's because he was the only governor. Which is a laughable suggestion for anyone who knows their record.

Your point?

Your point would be (should be) based upon your view of the 2nd amendment. Knowing a bit about the 'asker' myself, his question seems to be in line with what I understand his view of the 2nd amendment to be -not some kind of 'gotcha' trick.

I'd be interested to hear what the 2nd amendment means to you and how it has led to your decision to push Romney. Leading to your point.

I imagine it might be some kind of 'last resort' view. Maybe you could walk me through your thinking.