Official thread: Where does the Egyptian military stand in this?

[nobody's_hero]

When you think of riot police, you think of organized lines of black-suits wearing 5 inches of padding, helmet w/face-shield, blaring sirens in the background, and firing off tear gas.

So, when you think of the military, you think of Kent State and how absolutely NOT to handle a riot. Perhaps it is too bad, though, that Kent State is not located in Egypt.

I created this thread to see if we could compile videos/news about the relationship (good or bad) that the Egyptian military has with the protestors.







And while I was searching for footage, I found this video that someone else put together, in which she asks a question that has certainly been on my mind.

 

[pcosmar]

It is interesting, and I am watching several bits of information. It seems the Military are standing WITH the people. At least at the moment.
They are not enforcing the curfew.
Reports of them clashing with the Security Forces. Protecting the protesters.
Reports of them standing with protesters and protecting the Museum.
This is not a Military Coup, but the Military seems to be on the side of the people. At least at the moment.
This is still in flux.
It will not likely end till Mubarak is gone.

 

[nobody's_hero]

This is not a Military Coup, but the Military seems to be on the side of the people. At least at the moment.

I think that they are probably being especially cautious as so not to appear as this is a military coup. I'm guessing the attitude towards military coups is similar to how it would be in the U.S., as replacing a civilian leader with one with military power would be perceived as a worsening of the conditions.

I think that this is probably the best we could hope for in the U.S., if the same situation happened here. Which is to say that the military would not come in guns-blazing, but also would not do much more than try to sit between the riot police and the protesters.

But we also cannot forget that the Egyptian military ultimately takes its orders from Mubarak. So while they're might be some light at the end of this tunnel, it is still a very long and dark tunnel.

I agree that it will not end until Mubarak no longer has authority, which, unfortunately, I do not believe the U.S. gov't will allow to happen to him.

 

[vita3]

From what I am gathering, Mubarak used the police to supress & sometimes kill his own people, the military never really shared that role.

 

[pcosmar]

I agree that it will not end until Mubarak no longer has authority, which, unfortunately, I do not believe the U.S. gov't will allow to happen to him.

I wish I had a good rifle and a place to stand. Taking out Mubarak would guarantee a comfortable retirement.

 

[nobody's_hero]

From CNN, so take it with a grain of salt:

 

[pcosmar]

From CNN, so take it with a grain of salt:

]

I have mostly been ignoring the US Propaganda outlets.
Following on Twitter and Al Jazeera.

The crowds have increased since curfew. The military is not enforcing.
The people clearly want Mubarak GONE. Nothing less.

 

[vita3]

Wish we would have done this w/ Bush & Cheney.

 

[pcosmar]

Wish we would have done this w/ Bush & Cheney.

Better late than never.. Obama/Biden are no different.

 

[Stary Hickory]

Wish we would have done this w/ Bush & Cheney.

And not Obama....ah

 

[vita3]

We could do it with Obama, but I can't let 911 go. (i obviously believe it was a flase flag attack on america)

 

[Stary Hickory]

Lots of the Military are from the South....they aint gonna fight the people, I can tell you that.

 

[nobody's_hero]

"Egypt's military in a quandary"

Clearly the way forward is not the way back. But since President Mubarak has opted for more the same old and bankrupt ways of dealing with national uprising, making promises of change and cosmetic alteration to governance essentially, all now depends on the momentum of the popular uprising and the role of the military.

Mubarak's attempts to delegitimise the popular revolt as isolated incidents exploited by Islamists has fallen on deaf ears at home and abroad. As the revolt continues to expand and gain momentum in major Egyptian cities and protestors demand no less than the removal of his regime, it's now the military's choice to allow for the change to be peaceful or violent.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011129153021167916.html

Some of the article has me worried. If the military leaders do go with an interim, military-led government, then what its relationship with the U.S. government is from that point on could mean drastically differenct outcomes for the people of Egypt.

 

[nobody's_hero]

Activist interviewed

I don't think I've ever heard of The Real News Network. Looks like grassroots media that's just getting started.

Anyway, some speculation as to how things might pan out in the coming days, along with some historical context explaining how the attitude towards military and police differ:

 

[vita3]

Nobody's Hero,

The Real News Network has been around for a few years, they do some excellent interviews.( I like the ones w/ Col Lawrence Wilkerson talking about D. Cheney)

 

[nobody's_hero]

Nobody's Hero,

The Real News Network has been around for a few years, they do some excellent interviews.( I like the ones w/ Col Lawrence Wilkerson talking about D. Cheney)

Thank you. They also have other videos in the "suggested" column on Youtube. I will check them out.

At this point, I have to assume that lots of these non-corporatized grassroots news outlets are more legitimate than what we're seeing on the MSM networks. This interview does give some insight into the conditions in Egypt. The fact that Al-Jazeera has been cut off in Cairo makes me think that the moment of decision-making may be coming soon. I only hope that the ranks of the Egyptian military make the just decision.

 

[vita3]

The most facinating thing about this revolution, which we really don't know right know.. is the role our military is playing. They bankrolled Mubarak for decades & even paid him to take our side in the first Iraqi war. I have to think without our military protection, Mubarak would already be hanging in the streets of Cairo.

 

[sailingaway]

I saw a realnews video report saying the military were cheered because, as in Mexico, they are not considered a corrupt arm of corrupt politicians the way the police are, essentially. In the past they have come out for the people, apparently.

The thing about grass roots news organizations is that they are like the OLD uncontrolled press. Anyone can say anything, so you have to use common sense and weed it out, and some develop a reputation for more care than others. I'm fine with that. I'd much prefer it to having 4 corporations filter the information I get.

 

[ibaghdadi]

Guys, this is rolling too fast for posts/forums, follow me on twitter here: http://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi

I'm receiving from various sources, some direct and some indirect, translating into English and tweeting on the fly.

Army's position still unclear but contact between military and protesters in squares very positive, ElBaradei to address army at Tahrir Square shortly.

 

[dizi24]

I saw a realnews video report saying the military were cheered because, as in Mexico, they are not considered a corrupt arm of corrupt politicians the way the police are, essentially. In the past they have come out for the people, apparently.

The thing about grass roots news organizations is that they are like the OLD uncontrolled press. Anyone can say anything, so you have to use common sense and weed it out, and some develop a reputation for more care than others. I'm fine with that. I'd much prefer it to having 4 corporations filter the information I get.

I just want to point out that there isn't a single cohesive "military" in Egypt. There is a military that is pretty much an arm of Mubarak that is involved in a lot of the torturing, imprisonment, spying, etc. Then there is also a military group that is less loyal to the state which is largely filled by conscription.