Official Health Care Ruling Thread (Obamacare upheld)

[Danan]

Black market healthcare is coming to a town near you. That's what is going to happen.

Why? You have to pay the tax anyway, whether you buy private insurance or not. Or do I understand the SC ruling wrongly?

Some might want to buy additional insurance, but those who want to have less have no option.

 

[romancito]

Black market healthcare is coming to a town near you. That's what is going to happen.

Surveillance and drones put to good use you mean.

 

[Kade]

I wish you folks had something interesting to add, all this whining is getting me drunk.

 

[Kluge]

I wish you folks had something interesting to add, all this whining is getting me drunk.

Aww. Same to you Kade. Missed you lots!

 

[cajuncocoa]

Black market healthcare is coming to a town near you. That's what is going to happen.

You're probably right. What other choice will there be when the government tells someone they can't have some procedure done for whatever reason? Death panels, anyone?

 

[kathy88]

The Republicans did nothing to stop this. They are going to do nothing to repeal except to give a good show. This hurts Romney because he has no legs to stand. Sorry Rand, Romney can't be trusted. You don't dance with the devil.

Gary Johnson 2012!!!

Why do you feel the need to slam Rand every single time you post? -rep and reported I'm tired of you

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

Seriously...I can't believe this. I'm at a loss for words

I was sure they would be intelligent enough to realize it was unconstitutional.

 

[romancito]

Why? You have to pay the tax anyway, whether you buy private insurance or not. Or do I understand the SC ruling wrongly?

Some might want to buy additional insurance, but those who want to have less have no option.

This will drive healthcare in the next 10 years to 33 or maybe even 40 percent of GDP.

I would enroll in medical school now. Doctors will own the country.

 

[sailingaway]

Why do you feel the need to slam Rand every single time you post? -rep and reported I'm tired of you

He's pushing Gary Johnson and sees that as a path to get GJ more support.

Back to the topic of the thread:

Am I the only one who just lost their last shred of faith in the US supreme court that they would at least really try to rule according to the Constitution? I mean, they had to TRY to find this result, imho.

 

[Lucille]

Kennedy should be commended for voting like he did. Roberts was a G.W. Bush progressive all along, just like his mentor Lawrence Tribe said he was.

Yup. The GWB establishment neo-Trot GOP could have headed this thing off at the pass, but they were too busy on their Islamic Theocracy-building misadventures, nullifying the Bill of Rights to keep us "safe," and expanding Medicare.

Over at HotAir, they actually think electing Mandate Mitt RomneyCare will save them! That's the ticket! Let's elect more neo-Trots! LOL

 

[tfurrh]

What's our next move? //

Or do I just have to take it.

 

[Kade]

Aww. Same to you Kade. Missed you lots!

I read through the whole thread hoping someone actually read the opinion. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

I found it interesting that Wickard_v._Filburn was brought up as an explanation for a majority opinion that all but admitted the expansion of legislative power expected from the decision.

It can be summed up very easily... Obama sold the law as "not a tax". The Supreme Court disagrees with him, and probably to his benefit, declares that the exaction of tax is constitutional. They threw out the first pointed argument that this should be allowed under the Commerce Clause, if you were looking for anything good from this...

Interesting section:
"The Government disagrees. It argues that §5000A(g)(1) does not direct courts to apply the Anti-Injunction Act,because §5000A(g) is a directive only to the Secretary of the Treasury to use the same “‘methodology and procedures’” to collect the penalty that he uses to collect taxes. Brief for United States 32–33 (quoting Seven-Sky, 661
F. 3d, at 11).

We think the Government has the better reading. As it observes, “Assessment” and “Collection” are chapters of the Internal Revenue Code providing the Secretary authority to assess and collect taxes, and generally specifyingthe means by which he shall do so."



"Congress can, of course, describe something as a penalty but direct that it nonetheless be treated as a tax for purposes of the Anti-Injunction Act."

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

What's our next move? say when. I'm getting my Indian suit out, my war paint ready, and I want to know where the REAL tea party is!!!! What next.

Or do I just have to take it.

There's only one thing that can turn this country around and it won't be happening any time soon.

 

[cajuncocoa]

This will drive healthcare in the next 10 years to 33 or maybe even 40 percent of GDP.

I would enroll in medical school now. Doctors will own the country.

That's not how I see it. It won't be like it is now...doctors will basically be government employees. Why would anyone want to go through years and years of medical school, internship, etc. to be a slave to the state? The only ones who will gain from this are the insurance companies who are in bed with this administration.

 

[Lucille]

In light of the SCOTUS ruling - "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain — that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -- Lysander Spooner

Yet another reason why a piece of paper cannot constrain the state.

+rep.

 

[Kade]

This section also seems pretty interesting:

"Perez, 402 U. S., at 154 (“Where the class of activities is regulated and that class is within the reach of federal power, the courts have no power to excise, as trivial, individual instances of the class” (emphasis in original; internal quotation marks omitted)); Wickard, supra, at 125 (“[E]ven if appellee’s activity be local and though it may not be regarded as commerce, it may still, whateverits nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce”); NLRB v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U. S. 1, 37 (1937) (“Although activities may be intrastate in character whenseparately considered, if they have such a close and substantial relation to interstate commerce that their control is essential or appropriate to protect that commerce fromburdens and obstructions, Congress cannot be denied thepower to exercise that control”);"

 

[romancito]

He's pushing Gary Johnson and sees that as a path to get GJ more support.

Back to the topic of the thread:

Am I the only one who just lost their last shred of faith in the US supreme court that they would at least really try to rule according to the Constitution? I mean, they had to TRY to find this result, imho.

But of course. Roberts made it for the professionals and the service sector of the economy. And also for technology as a way of keeping everyone in line. At the end it is a service and technology economy for about 60 percent of GDP. Pay pay pay pay pay. And at the end you own nothing but debt. And also owe your life and will to the government. Just like a good Chinese and North Korean. You'll see. Like John Edwards used to say, "Two Americas."

 

[cajuncocoa]

Why do you feel the need to slam Rand every single time you post? -rep and reported I'm tired of you

Reported for expressing an opinion? (one that quite a few of us left on this board share, I might add) Seriously???

I +1 rep'd Liberty74 to offset this...I find this attempt to repress speech very un-libertarian.

 

[aGameOfThrones]

This section also seems pretty interesting:

"Perez, 402 U. S., at 154 (“Where the class of activities is regulated and that class is within the reach of federal power, the courts have no power to excise, as trivial, individual instances of the class” (emphasis in original; internal quotation marks omitted)); Wickard, supra, at 125 (“[E]ven if appellee’s activity be local and though it may not be regarded as commerce, it may still, whateverits nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce”); NLRB v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U. S. 1, 37 (1937) (“Although activities may be intrastate in character whenseparately considered, if they have such a close and substantial relation to interstate commerce that their control is essential or appropriate to protect that commerce fromburdens and obstructions, Congress cannot be denied thepower to exercise that control”);"

Kinda reminds me of this...


Roads are necessary in war; therefore congress may legislate locally concerning roads. Victuals, manufactures, and a certain state of national manners, are more necessary in war; therefore congress may legislate locally, concerning agriculture, manufactures and manners. The favour of the Deity is more necessary than either; therefore congress may provide salaries for priests of all denominations, in order to obtain it, without infringing the constitutional prohibition against an establishment; or they may incorporate sects, and exempt them from taxation. Roads are more necessary for collecting taxes than even banks. Taverns are very necessary or convenient for the officers of the army, congress themselves, the conveyance of the mail, and the accommodation of judges. But horses are undoubtedly more necessary for the conveyance of the mail and for war, than roads, which may be as convenient to assailants as defenders; and therefore the principle of an implied power of legislation, will certainly invest congress with a legislative power over horses. In short, this mode of construction completely establishes the position, that congress may pass any internal law whatsoever in relation to things, because there is nothing with which, war, commerce and taxation may not be closely or remotely connected.~John Taylor

 

[AuH20]

But of course. Roberts made it for the professionals and the service sector of the economy. And also for technology as a way of keeping everyone in line. At the end it is a service and technology economy for about 60 percent of GDP. Pay pay pay pay pay. And at the end you own nothing but debt. And also owe your life and will to the government. Just like a good Chinese and North Korean. You'll see. Like John Edwards used to say, "Two Americas."

But even with this tax, they can't keep the ponzi scheme intact. It's going under either way. This is a mere delay tactic.